Wall exploiting in Nyzul

[Ryko]

What is there to justify?
Is it a cheat? Yes
Does anyone care? Not really, except for people looking for something to bitch about.
Should anyone care? I guess that's up to you (hint: no)

I'm sorry but the bible beating is little more than academic the second the competitive aspect is removed from a scenario. "Advantage over others" in a closed off 6 man "everyone wins" environment, why waste your time getting ticked at it?

[Shassira]

It's not a moral matter but a conceptual one. The game is supossed to be played under some rules, which is exactly what defines what the game is.
If you decide to break such rules, you are no longer playing the game that was designed and you are basicly playing a perverted version of it to your own liking, moment when you should think if maybe shouldn't be playing since you, well, don't like the game's rules.

It's very easy to understand, this has nothing to do with morals. If you are running a race where every competitor has to be walking (http://www.racewalk.com/) and you suddenly decide this is stupid and you start actualy running then you are no longer playing the same game. If there is no price for being first, then there's no harm done to anyone running with you ofcourse (akin to the instanced enviroment of Nyzul / Assault) but... what is the point? If you wanted to be in a running race why did you enter a walking race?

I hope that analogy was enough to make people understand. I honestly couldn't care less if people cheat in an instanced zone, it doesn't affect me much personaly, but i find it interesting that people like to blind fold themselves and say "it's not cheating because i don't like the game's rules!". You are still running in a walking race, you are cheating. If it's important that you do or not is another topic.

If you really don't care about any type of cheat in an instance zone you should start pos hacking around to make things easier. Although as one poster sincerely answered some posts ago, the limit is set by what can ban you, so most would probably not go this far.

PD: I have used the fillmode cheat a couple times and i can't help but feel i'm making the events so stupidly easy that i start questioning why I'm even playing. *shrug* Also, it's very fun seeing things from another perspective, but that's another matter

[Ryko]

Yes, I'm pretty sure all of us remotely familiar with a dictionary know what cheating means.

[Shassira]

Yes, I'm pretty sure all of us remotely familiar with a dictionary know what cheating means.

I proposed a way to understand cheating not from a moral perspective but from a logical perspective, the former which was aparently how some people were understanding the concept. I don't see your post relevant at all nor aplicable to this case.

[Ryko]

Logically there isn't much to deny about it being a cheat, so either you're good at overstating the obvious or the intent of my previous snarky comment flew past you.

"Logically" there isnt a question as to whether or not "cheating is in actuality cheating". The "debate" will always hinge on the moral implications, if any even exist.

[Shassira]

I believe your intention, judging from the lack of content into your replys and the implicit agressiveness, is not to exchange ideas but to "win" an argument, thus i'm done with this conversation until something more interesting happens~ Have fun.

[Ryko]

The irony in this is that I basically said "duh" due to the lack of content in your bloated post. There was no disagreement there, what argument was there to be won?

[Leeto]

using fillmode in nyzul is more like taking a single large stride (not walking, but miles from running) during a walking race

[Kkel]

...in a walking race that's only with 5 other people, all your friends, and if any of you win, you all win.

[shihei]

Well I wasn't relly trying to villainize anyone it was more along the lines of "I don't need it."
And people are like "Why risk it?"
My answer would of been "Because I'm a ps2 noob!"

That's why when that guy said moral high ground I was like "?"

Whatever, I never had problems in Nyzul with anything but people who couldn't say when they just lit their lamp so the next guy in order could go, or say if their lamp was on/off after everyong clicked it on. That and people misinterpeting "Do not agro gears" for "Do not kill gears". That + lamp order floor/kill boss and you get people screaming NOOOOOO YOU PULLING A GEAR!!!!!!
Well it is in the way of the objective so can we just kill it fast and finish the floor?!
/mini-rant

[Not Kuno]

I see it as cheating and stuff but.. it's not a huge deal in regards to the runs and other people doing it has no effect on my nyzul runs so I don't give a crap really.

[Calintzpso]

Yea its a cheat that gives you an advantage that others could do but just with more work(fillmode: wedge your camera in the wall), just like Tparty(hey bob whats your tp?) or anything else from the windower, big whoop in my opinion. Windower plugin just makes the information gathering a lot faster.

Only thing that is a horrible cheat to this game is Botting. Well I'm there 11pm on a Friday night, Camping say VE or some other nm or Fishing, listening to my rush mix tape and a bottle of Shasta. Some dick ass hole is using a program to bot claim on the dot of pop well he sleeps or bangs his girl friend behind the monkey grass in the living room of his parents house well they are down in Florida!

[NiggaFromHarlem]

using fillmode is definetely cheating (because for some reason it doesn't work on my pc).

[Izzy]

if you want a legit wallhack, buy a geforce FX video card and use any drivers BUT the 56.61s (I think its those) and youll drop textures so much the walls will stop existing almost entirely

if you turn off vsync and run back and forth too, the tearing allows you to see through edges. Nyzul would be more fair if it had a map ability and widescan

^^^ This.

So anyone with an old computer is cheating according to Shassira. Fillmode just allows me to see through the wall without running next to it.

[Shassira]

And POS hack allows you to go to your destination without walking. Seriously, why do you people keep kidding yourselves? xD

There is a million more examples, but obviously looking through walls exploiting a game's glitch is in theory cheating since it is not something intended, but it's so mild that the developers don't care about it, they have other problems. And it IS mild because the instances where you weill find a suitable wall to look at exactly what you need are few, not to mention the lost time you will have to invest crashing into the wall while your camera bounces, only to find out you couldn't see what you were expecting to see.
Remember AV? Wall of Justice? Example of an in game glitch abussed. Obviously not in the same league, because the developers did believe it was worth fixing this.
Also, geometry cliping is probably harder to fix based on their graphic engine code.

But seriously, equating polygonal cliping to fillmode 1 is, at best, absurd. How can you even expect to sustain such argument? You know, you can pos hack with lag too, hell, given the right situation you can probably skip some doors and walls. Just because that can happen and can be reproduced doesn't make pos hacking "not cheating".

Argue all you want about the effects and repercusions of using fillmode vs using whatever other cheat or hack you can think of, but it's cheating eitherway.

http://www.signatureexpressionsllc.c...onkeysDoll.jpg

[Thorny]

It's not a moral matter but a conceptual one. The game is supossed to be played under some rules, which is exactly what defines what the game is.
If you decide to break such rules, you are no longer playing the game that was designed and you are basicly playing a perverted version of it to your own liking, moment when you should think if maybe shouldn't be playing since you, well, don't like the game's rules.

http://bluegartr.com/forum/showthrea...30#post2037130
If the game rules intended for people to enter salvage with 5, they wouldn't require you have a 6th come and fake d/c to let them in. (Note to everyone not being a self-righteous prick: I enter salvage like this as well, just making a comment.)

[Shassira]

Correct Thorny, we circumvent that to adapt it to our liking. It's cheating in the sense that we are going against the set of rules the game has set for us. We (our Salvage group) circumvent them because we do not like them, making us cheaters. The difference would be in that I have no problem accepting that I am doing what I like and not what I should. (My point being in that i have no double moral by doing something that could be pointed as cheating. I am aware).

And just on a lighter note, i'd hope that they would just reduce the 6 man limit to 3, like Nyzul D: It's really annoying finding people to help you in when you don't have acces to N accounts.

[Octavious]

I get a sneaking feeling we have jaded PS2 and 360 FFXI players in this topic who are angry windower has so many awesome-sauce plugins and they don't get the advantage playing on the console holding the PC version back.

Eh, I used to swival the camera angle to target NPCs behind doors and claim tonberry to open doors etc. The adjustments with fillmode just make it less work on the user end pretty as does TParty.

On the grand scale of things, people seeing others TP etc is probably less of a priority (in my mind) than bots, account hackings, and the like.

[Almalexia]

Correct Thorny, we circumvent that to adapt it to our liking. It's cheating in the sense that we are going against the set of rules the game has set for us. We (our Salvage group) circumvent them because we do not like them, making us cheaters. The difference would be in that I have no problem accepting that I am doing what I like and not what I should. (My point being in that i have no double moral by doing something that could be pointed as cheating. I am aware).

If someone d/cs unexpectedly during the server connection, the request still goes through and 5 members enter the zone. The game doesn't care, because it doesn't matter whether six, five or one person person enters a zone so long as there are six people present and holding permits when the connection request is submitted.

Of course, you could brush that off as a mistake. In cases where a group uses their knowledge about the Salvage server to deliberately disconnect a person before entering a zone they are hardly circumventing anything. It's more like a technicality. Each member fulfills the requirements to enter Salvage---there is no exploitation or circumvention here-- but one or more people simply opt out at the last moment. You only need 6 people holding permits to get in, but every one of them doesn't have to enter.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

The funniest thing about this post (aside from the fact that its been going on so long with such an obvious answer) is that people can post screenshots, videos, website screencaps etc. of people who are blatantly botting/bragging about botting, and the response is "everyone bots deal with it." Considering that botting not only gives you an advantage, but gives others a disadvantage (which fillmode does not do) im surprised so many people are nitpicking this, and so little care about things that effect other people's gaming experience.