Why isn't SCH used often as a sub?

[Kerberoz]

/SCH is a nice sub for BLM on things like JoL, (Tiamat etc).
Also in manaburn PT where you can 1shot mobs. (4 BLMs COR BRD)

Depends how many people you have... lots of shells use BLMs to kill adds on JoL and kill aggro/nuke Tiamat. The most efficient manaburns are -aga3 burns where you need stoneskin/blink too. Puddings are best left to soloers.

[Fiofio]

I sigh everytime I see a WHM without /sch

1) Light arts gives -10% mp cost and spellcast time and recast timer to all white magic spells
2) Light arts also gives WHM a base 256 enfeebling skill before gear and merits
3) Dark arts boosts enfeebling and dark magic skill to 256, which is great for Sleep and Drain/Aspir
4) Addendum: Black gives access to Dispel and Sleep
5) 2 Strategems that recharge at 2 min each, which can be used for Penury (-50% mp cost to next white magic spell) and Celerity (-50% cast time and recast on next white magic spell), both of which can stack together for a spell like R3.
6) Conserve MP trait
7) Sublimation usually gives the typical WHM about 200 - 225mp when fully charged up, depending on your HP


Meanwhile... /BLM is just Conserve MP, Warp, Escape, Sleep and Sleepga (without the boosted enfeebling skill). I <3 my /SCH sub and I'm actually considering levelling SCH up to 75....

[Dammerung]

Meanwhile... /BLM is just Conserve MP, Warp, Escape, Sleep and Sleepga (without the boosted enfeebling skill). I <3 my /SCH sub and I'm actually considering levelling SCH up to 75....

It's still useful when it is needed. Lack of Bind, Sleepga, and needing to go through 2 JA before you can cast Sleep is annoying at times. If your equip is worth a damn you can hit 290+ (I think 298 is max) enfeeble on WHM without Dark Arts as well. With that said my SCH is 61 and rising because it's awesome >.>

[Deftscythe]

Meanwhile... /BLM is just Conserve MP, Warp, Escape, Sleep and Sleepga (without the boosted enfeebling skill). I <3 my /SCH sub and I'm actually considering levelling SCH up to 75....

It's still useful when it is needed. Lack of Bind, Sleepga, and needing to go through 2 JA before you can cast Sleep is annoying at times. If your equip is worth a damn you can hit 290+ (I think 298 is max) enfeeble on WHM without Dark Arts as well. With that said my SCH is 61 and rising because it's awesome >.>

Who needs to cast sleep when you have Repose?

[Fredjan]

/SCH is a nice sub for BLM on things like JoL, (Tiamat etc).
Also in manaburn PT where you can 1shot mobs. (4 BLMs COR BRD)

Depends how many people you have... lots of shells use BLMs to kill adds on JoL and kill aggro/nuke Tiamat. The most efficient manaburns are -aga3 burns where you need stoneskin/blink too. Puddings are best left to soloers.

Tend to agree. There's almost always a PT at puddings on Asura -.-

Plus the fact most of the BLMs get addicted to the extra damage done so they don't want to do princes/etc. I've tried aga3 burns and they're fun, definitely need stoneskin/blink without a doubt, because having 3 mobs on you after a aga3 can add up quick.. Just wish I could find more BLMs willing to do this. I end up doing most of my BLM exp in sea for capes, while occasionally helping a BLM get 75 by partying with them in Mt. Z.

Who needs to cast sleep when you have Repose?

Light based mobs, maybe? Or when Repose isn't up? Never hurts to have additional sources of Sleep.

And yes, WHM can get respectable enfeebling magic skill, easily, so sleep can be a nice tool to have. I sigh a little when I see a WHM who cares less about their Enfeebling Magic Skill, let alone Divine now with Repose. Divine skill gained a huge increase in usefulness with Repose's addition. That being said, I capped mine WAY before Repose came out and when I found out it was Divine based, I was damn glad to have taken the extra time necessary to cap it before all the WHMs who ignored it started on skilling it up.

Enfeebling skill, like said earlier, is even better as /SCH since /SCH gives WHM 256 enfeebling magic skill under dark arts, compared to the natural 225 cap (I have full enfeebling magic merits and my WHM has, I believe, 280 enfeebling magic skill, need better gear). So you effectively gain 31 enfeebling magic skill allowing WHM to break 320, and almost reach 330 with the right gear (rivaling a well geared RDM's enfeebling skill, but WHM needs enfeebling magic skill in almost every available slot that it can be available to to make it close). However getting to it can be a problem, as was said in a previous post, since you need Addendum: Black and Dark Arts.

I don't want to hear it but it seems i must. Unlocking Now. Goddamnit.

Yep, you had to hear it.

[Howard Roark]

it isn't?

[Meat]

I'm not a whm but the loss of es and stoneskin on a lot of hnm fights can be huge.

Hmmm, go check your spell lists. WHM doesn't lose SS. WHM actually gets it b4 RDM does. The lose of ES is only noticed if it's needed on a WHM, which in a lot of cases it isn't. The only time I can think I actually need ES as a WHM is when we are at Tiamat or Cerby, and needing ES to land Repose/Slow. Or the occasional mishap where WHMs are called on to Repose(ie someone being stupid and casting on a darter @ faf).

That's not the first time I've heard "loss of stoneskin" on WHM. >.>

To make it simple;

WHM gets Stoneskin at 28.
RDM gets Stoneskin at 34.

SCH gets Stoneskin... by subbing WHM or RDM. Just like BLM.

No excuse for WHM not to have /sch SJ

Truth.

I'm working on mine still

Erm sorry, just came off a ouryu where one of our blms did \sch and spend the entire fight in 8x rez.
But yeah, on "bigger" 3 hnm fights(cerb, timmy, khim) it doesnt beat /blm, the loss of es is sizable

Out of the 5 timmys that my ls hasn't killed this year on Asura, 2 of them was because our spotter was a whm/sch that sit on his arse while another ls claimed with es sleep as we raced to claim.

And in general our hnms tend to go like this; 10pm pop you're at full capacity and getting evokers, ballad and refresh or 4am you're undermanned and you need additional sleepers\slowers.

[Alistaire]

I've been trying out /sch on both rdm and blm and find it works well in a lot of cases. For RDM it's incredibly good for xp, erase shouldn't be an issue in most camps, unless you have a brd/nin pulling colibris with elegy and no 2nd brd or cor going /whm. Also found it worked just fine at KB, where ES wasn't really necessary. And with the amount of BLM we have at Dynamis it's worked well there too.

For BLM aside from Fafnir/KB most fights you can stay out of any kind of aoe danger. I've gone to Aspid, Tiamat, limbus (including Ultima) as blm/sch and been fine. Any time I'm at a camp before pop I can store up mp with sublimation, and for charges I'm normally using them for ½-cost AMII, occasionally other things as needed.

So I'd have to agree with the "cba to level it" reason as far as why it's not used much.

[aurik]

Erm sorry, just came off a ouryu where one of our blms did \sch and spend the entire fight in 8x rez.

We commonly have a blm come /bst to Ouryu, and he rarely has a problem. So I think it's a case of a retarded blm (and by retarded I mean: why the hell would you sub sch to Ouryu) rather than a deficiency in the SJ itself...

[Alistaire]

and by retarded I mean: why the hell would you sub sch to Ouryu

For the -10% to -50% MP cost on nukes? Just a hunch

Edit: and recast.

[aurik]

and by retarded I mean: why the hell would you sub sch to Ouryu

For the -10% to -50% MP cost on nukes? Just a hunch

Edit: and recast.

Never had mp problems in that fight, since you can rest full from 0 while the bitch sleeps. Spell recast gets fucked by slow2 on all those 200 dmg wings Ouryu constantly spams, that's why you sub whm: erase and stoneskin.

Ouryu's probably the worst fight to not be subbing whm.

[Alistaire]

True, wasn't thinking of the slow. The MP cost is still good but yeah, Ouryu would be an iffy fight to not go /whm.

[6souls]

I need to finish sch for my whm only 14 atm. Looks like a great subjob just wish there was a faster way to lv it thru the dunes.

Worms in N. Gusta (S)