Battle Adjustments (05/28/2008)

[Shassira]

This was a nicer thread when people almost started talking about BST

[Suiram]

BST don't need any more buffing, they have Lars.

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

Curious why every topic that has great potential on these forums turns into an elitist whinefest.

On Topic: Yay for BST, I can merit some more and have a level 73-75 Fungy.

cue welcome to BG forums

[LD]

If you're trying to argue for damage vs. time, then why not argue Thundaga III as a great spell, which is faster than either of those and hits pretty hard?

I'm not really arguing that, but I'll explain that in a sec. First of all, thank you for being the only one to actually give me a standard on which to judge this. What I culled from my memory was 1k for T4 and 1.5k for AM2, which comes to 5.84 and 5.22, respectively. That is what made me believe you were blowing this out of proportion (though I never said you were lying.) Second, to answer your question, AM2s are only marginally stronger than Thundaga 3 with nearly 3x the recast, it's true, but 50+ MP aside, the fact that it's a single target while having that sort of power is the blessing here.


Now for a few addendums.

Your argument sucks, now you're trying to say that something validly working doesn't work because people refuse to make it work?

No, that actually was not my argument. I was saying that what is right is not always done and what is done is not always what is right. I've never seen a NIN use their G2s, except maybe once. I see BLMs use AM2 often enough that I know they all have it merited or plan on meriting it. With the number of people who absolutely despise he grind of exping, if it were useless, you would just stop meriting, like most people. From that, I can figure that is it useful for something and from that, I can figure what it might be used for. If you're saying it's MP inefficient and you have it anyway, there's a point at which you stop caring about MP inefficiency. It's very simple logic.

Before you lecture me, you should review the conversation so you can realize if maybe you're the one who lost the thread.

#1: You're incredibly petty (I should know), and #2:, no matter how you wanna spin it, you did NOT answer the question.

You're not really very good at this whole arguing thing, are you?

I am awesome at arguing, thank you very much. The proof is that you all resort to personal attacks in the wake of my flashy mind spunk. Feel it.

An argument is a game, the object is to confuse and frustrate your opponents. I still know what I'm talking about and have never strayed from my core point whereas the rest of you have resorted to non-sequitur, insults, and assertions of experience rather than confronting me with cold hard facts. This could have been a thing called a discussion, but that was throw out the moment you people thought just because you play a job, you can say whatever the hell you want without other people disagreeing. I never said Penance was bad, I never said it was less useful, what I DID say was that it saw less use (like MNK itself, Salvage is probably the only place its wanted, instead of just allowed), which still essentially translates to 'less useful' on the whole, but that's subjective. I never said AM2 was great or that it outperformed Thunder 4. But what it does have is a place and that place is more common than Penance's.

[Shassira]

BST don't need any more buffing, they have Lars.

True, now we just need to win the lotto =P

On a real note, my fingers are crossed on improved ways of getting CoP pets announced on this update. Seriously, if they made all CoP pets like the recipie for Homunculus, all would be fine. Same ingredients but not depending on the stupid NQ/HQ chances to make your farming time worth. For those who don't know, Homunculus is a rather cheap synth at higher level alchemy (86ish) that produces the uncaped pet from NQ results and HQs just produce more jugs (9 NQ, 12 HQ). In other words, it doesn't make you waste any materials, you get what you wanted, just more or less. Make the same for CoP pets and BSTs will go smiling happy to try out all that stuff for some months.

[evilpaul]

Hume BLM75/RDM37, capped Thunder Potency, Firesday, see gear here. (Swap in a Phantom Tathlum for Fishing Rod, it'll probably be a few hours until that updates again.)

Test Subject: Om'Phuabo that tried to eat me when I left Apollyon:

Burst II       1,431   4.98
Thundaga III   1,371   4.25
Thunder IV     1,123   6.56

Burst II is ~75% as MP-efficient as Thunder IV.

I don't have my Sorcerer's Ring on me at the moment to try with that. And it was Firesday, so I'm not testing Ice spells.


Anyway, I thought the new pet food was supposed to have fixed BST?

[terranova]

Man, I'm REALLY interested to know more about the Monk JA,

It'll be broken and people will be saying "kick burn onry" :3

KRT Revival.

I like the sound of that heh.

Still gonna hope for something for RDM...besides category limit raising.

[kayn]

so wait, when ouryu flies, i shouldn't spam bilz IV, blizgaIII, & freeze II because the last 2 are mp inefficeint?
should i just wait for my bliz IV recast?

i'm so confused.
most the time...wait, no. all the time i'm on blm i'm spamming the shit outta AMII.
idk why you ppl call them dumb

[Shassira]

Anyway, I thought the new pet food was supposed to have fixed BST?

Nope, the new pet food is a rather unexplainable addition to the game, somehow like the newer JSE set from Khimaira gear. It's like 3 years late and still hard to explain why it would even exist back then.

Basicly, one of the synths is rather easy to make (cloth) but the item is pretty useless. It's a regen effect with no added healing, as opossed to Zeta being a 380+ HP heal with a small regen. In general, using Zeta is more efficient as it's instant and usualy also more cost effective. The only possitive aspect of the new pet food is the 99 stacks compared to the 12 item stacks.

Finaly, the second pet food is a mixture of Erase + Esuna with some exceptions to effects normaly removed by the esuna line and erase normaly (things like weight come to mind, i believe). This is rather silly because Zeta already does that using either AF1 body for esuna effect or AF2 body for erase effect. There's some extra effects on the new food like removing weight but this is hardly game breaking or job fixing anyway. Also, this thing doesn't heal like Zeta, but stacks to 99.

Edit: Oh, i forgot to add that the second food uses Ca cuongs (or whatever the name), which are some frogs found in WotG areas that have pretty much no other use than this synth. They seem to be pretty rare fishing bites or HQ2 desynth from an already rare goblin item that drops from only certain gobs in wotg areas. So it's not only marginaly good, but also very hard to synth item wise. *shrug*

[Aldaris]

Smn side: always had all 6 BP's. Figure gonna go for 5 Geocrush for a decent damage Stun.

200 TP to start out with may be nice to MB with as well.

I don't notice the stun duration that much just on Omega.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Yeah, I'll be very interested in seeing how the avatar magical BPs are now. 160 initial TP is like whoa

[Toth]

Yeah, I'll be very interested in seeing how the avatar magical BPs are now. 160 initial TP is like whoa

They honestly need to be fixed at an initial damage (ie no TP) like Nether Blast and then have extra damage added to them based on weather, TP bonus, mob weakness, etc.

[aurik]

Before you lecture me, you should review the conversation so you can realize if maybe you're the one who lost the thread.

#1: You're incredibly petty (I should know), and #2:, no matter how you wanna spin it, you did NOT answer the question.

Petty? You're the one who lectured me! You asked a very simple question, I gave you the answer, and your response goes off in some direction that was completely irrelevant to my answer.

And now you're trying to dispute the mp efficiency of AM2 against a phalanx of career blms.

I think its time for you to

[Aldaris]

Yeah, I'll be very interested in seeing how the avatar magical BPs are now. 160 initial TP is like whoa

They honestly need to be fixed at an initial damage (ie no TP) like Nether Blast and then have extra damage added to them based on weather, TP bonus, mob weakness, etc.

I like =D>

Then again these Blood Pacts were implemented to encourage smn to keep avatar out over longer periods of time, that went well huh eh?

Edit**

[Max™]

PHALANX!

Well played Aurik.

I suffered from the TTS thing, but it's more that I can't stop voking shit randomly, so I've never managed to have over 12k Exp buffer in the years now that I've been war 75.

[Tajin]

Why is people (some) asking for more shit for RDM? ._.
Other than enlight / endark / barlight / bardark / barlightra / bardarka (woot protection vs. bio!). What else is there to add? :/

Unless SE adds more areas/ different kind of mobs, there is need for jack shit :/

[LinktheDeme]

Could give RDM poison 3 other than that i'm sure theres something they could add to make rdm more enticing. Like Enspells on other player or tier 2 enspells? I'm sure SE could come up with something I mean look what there coming up for SAM and PLD.

Ninja on the other hand need Jubaku: Ni and other hate tools now. That temp lowering enmity shit sounds stupid. If NIN can't keep shadows up enough it's their own fault. Maybe Utsusemi: San? Wouldn't be too game breaking can already keep shadows up and San spells have retarded recasts as is as is not to mention everyone already has Utsusemi: Ni. Tier 3 enfeebs would be nice but seriously give us fucking jubaku ni D: Also Monomi: Ni would be nice.

[Lordwafik]

REFLECT

Wouldn't be that broken in FFXI format if a) Costed you your own MP (or even half of the spellcost if this is too penalizing), b) Was based off your skills rather than the mob's skills (although this would suck balls vs a nin or brd mob), c) Spent the same length of time to cast the spell.

[Robert]

dont forget float

[SamanosukeShiva]

I hope the new BRD JA got like 1 min recast or it'll be pointless