Battle Adjustments (05/28/2008)

[Yutuyu]

If your fighting something that doesnt require you to be that mp efficient all of the time then why not use AM2 ? like if your fighting JoL and you invite a blm party into the alliance inbetween sharks to throw out a nuke, why would the blm use T4 and not AM2 ?

I know that this was a "which G2 merits is worse" scenario initialy but went off onto the mp efficiency tangent (which is what im addressing, dont really care about mnk merits tbh)

so in summary ; shits situational?

You'd have a point if they just gave AMII to the BLMs. But you have to spend XP (which they can't join a burn to get) in order to unlock them. I did some math, even with 5 full merits now in one, it's still less MP efficient than even a tier III.

If you need something else to nuke with, simply alternate between III's and IV's. There's really no point in touching AM II except in the rare WTFKILL scenario.

[Amastacia]

Funny... just about every job is happy about these merrit increases... except SMNs. To us, this update is worthless.

And the Nins and Rdms who've been quite vocal about their disapproval.

The merit increases aren't bad for RDM. I mean, the merit spells are (for the most part) stuff that shouldn't be merits in the first place, but that's not going to change. Small incremental increases, sure, but I'll never say no to a better Phalanx II or Slow II. Dia/Bio III will be more useful (though still MP inefficient) due to longer duration as well. ParaII/BlindII will still be underwhelming (and I've finally got an excuse to drop that ParaII merit for 5/5 Slow II + 5/5 Phalanx II).

NIN on the other hand...

Yeah, don't think anyone's jumping up and down for more Sange merits or worthless nuke merits.

[Gilthas]

You'd have a point if they just gave AMII to the BLMs. But you have to spend XP (which they can't join a burn to get) in order to unlock them. I did some math, even with 5 full merits now in one, it's still less MP efficient than even a tier III.

Always a lame complaint. If they want to join TP burns level a job useful for TP burns. Don't want to? Then deal with slower exp from manaburns or soloing.

[Weeks]

NIN on the other hand...

Yeah, don't think anyone's jumping up and down for more Sange merits or worthless nuke merits.

It's not just that, but the cumulative effect of the last dozen updates. In the past year, NIN has become a second-rate DD and would now pretty clearly rate as a second-rate tank if there were mobs other than Absolute Virtue that were a challenge to tank.

[SchuldigGER]

Does SE even know there are more then 5 jobs in this game ?

[Purrrfect]

Why is people (some) asking for more shit for RDM? ._.
Other than enlight / endark / barlight / bardark / barlightra / bardarka (woot protection vs. bio!). What else is there to add? :/

Unless SE adds more areas/ different kind of mobs, there is need for jack shit :/

I called dibs on enlight for pld back in 2005. YOU CAN'T HAS IT!

[Hyan]

Does SE even know there are more then 5 jobs in this game ?

Yeah, since this update focuses on SAM and PLD, riiight?

[layoneil]

You'd have a point if they just gave AMII to the BLMs. But you have to spend XP (which they can't join a burn to get) in order to unlock them. I did some math, even with 5 full merits now in one, it's still less MP efficient than even a tier III.

Always a lame complaint. If they want to join TP burns level a job useful for TP burns. Don't want to? Then deal with slower exp from manaburns or soloing.

the original LD argument was someone had BLM, SMN, NIN and MNK leveled and the only one he cares about are his MNK merits. if you have all those 4 jobs and play all of those 4 jobs, you're an idiot if you're meriting any tier 2 on BLM, SMN and NIN before Penance.

[Isiolia]

NIN on the other hand...

Yeah, don't think anyone's jumping up and down for more Sange merits or worthless nuke merits.

It's not just that, but the cumulative effect of the last dozen updates. In the past year, NIN has become a second-rate DD and would now pretty clearly rate as a second-rate tank if there were mobs other than Absolute Virtue that were a challenge to tank.

Definitely could use something or another. I vote for NIN-specific Throwing WS with high hate/enfeebling type effects (along with tweaked Shuriken recipes), and a Parrying Mastery trait for enhanced proc rate and Stun on Parry.

Or something along those lines. Crit bonus would be a nice DD touch too, but meh >.>


RDM could use something new too. I mean, 5/5 Slow II will be nice and all, but Elegy still wins. What I would almost say is for Enfeebles in general to be reworked. Allow for things like Silence to get landed by WHM and the like more easily. Scale effects with skill instead of stats to give RDM an inherent edge, but keep spells viable for other jobs to use.

A JA that allows a RDM to AoE Enhancing spells would be appropriate at this point too, given what SCH gets.

New (at least to players) Enfeebles would be nice for RDM and BLM. Break, Curse, Amnesia.... >___>;

[layoneil]

RDM could use something new too. I mean, 5/5 Slow II will be nice and all, but Elegy still wins.

the tanks win cause they stack. nobody says let's not put Slow II on a mob cause it's already got Elegy.

[Isiolia]

While that's true, it still doesn't change the significant difference in effort involved between a fully merited, stat-build Slow II and Carnage Elegy.

I mean, I loves me my Elegy on BRD, I really do. It's just annoying that you can put all this effort into Slow II, and it still will never catch up. Should be that we get Slow II at 60 or whatever anyway, and merit Slow effect in Cat II, *grumblegrumble*

[Indalecia]

Funny... just about every job is happy about these merrit increases... except SMNs. To us, this update is worthless.

Just like the whole job itself!

Oh no you fucking didn't.

[Meian]

Funny... just about every job is happy about these merrit increases... except SMNs. To us, this update is worthless.

Just like the whole job itself!

Oh no you fucking didn't.

I really hope SMN isn't complaining about the update after getting Elemental Siphon and being able to use /sch with Sublimation >> Now, the tier 2 can buff the bp to 5/5 (already 3/3 in Grand Fall) so this should be interesting.

Didn't the patch notes say in "addition" to those jobs MNK/PLD/BRD? Possible last minute stuff! Like... where are my merits for SCH and DNC???

I'd call last minute avatar like Diabolos but the hype with Nyzul Isle weapons wouldn't be in the same update as a new avatar I would think

[Zoot]

Currently Slow II Casters MND = Enemy MND is 25%, and cap from mnd potency is 37%. Right now the increase in flat potency (not including any potency from MND) would bring Slow II to ~31%, if the increments remain static.

If this does remain constant, Slow II level 5 capped would be ~42-45%, a mere 6-8% slow off from Elegy. We can also hope that they make the cap 50 and lessen the effect of decreasing returns from MND when nearing the cap (heh).

What does suck, I admit, is that Elegy doesn't have to counter enemy stats for effectiveness. Still, it's going to be a hell of a lot better than the current 37% slow. However, I am glad that they made this spells effectiveness increase with MND rather than leaving it a constant, because it keeps me from getting too bored and justifies my MND addiction, so I won't get too upset about that.

[Isiolia]

If this does remain constant, Slow II level 5 capped would be ~42-45%, a mere 6-8% slow off from Elegy. We can also hope that they make the cap 50 and lessen the effect of decreasing returns from MND when nearing the cap (heh).

Keep in mind that Elegy with a +2 instrument is 52% Slow.

[Max™]

Definitely could use something or another. I vote for NIN-specific Throwing WS with high hate/enfeebling type effects (along with tweaked Shuriken recipes), and a Parrying Mastery trait for enhanced proc rate and Stun on Parry.

Or something along those lines. Crit bonus would be a nice DD touch too, but meh >.>

Make Sange a lvl 45 JA, 30 sec-60 sec timer, make it more like Barrage, but to keep the tie to Utsusemi maybe make it fire off a Shuriken for each shadow up, so you'd pop Ni and Sange the shit out of something, but if you lose shadows, you lose potential damage too.

Make Shuriken's more reasonable to buy from NPC/more inviting to synth, quiverable too, as I don't recall that you can quiver them, give Ninja some sort of ranged WS with Shuriken's that is a good alternative to Jin on high defense targets (I.E. high base damage+punch through ability, good stat mods for Nin, Str 50%/Agi 50%, something like 3.0~ fTP @ 100, but instead of killing enmity/being hateless like Namas/Coro, give it a +Enmity effect based on TP maybe) and nice hate tool.

Give some Recycle type ability through gear/merits/traits, Accuracy Bonus 1 at least, to go with the high throwing AND be a nice little boon for the meleeing.

Give Ninja it's own Benefit/Hindrance type JA like Berserk/Cstance/LR... make it increase attack speed by some amount like Hasso/DB do, while reducing Eva or something (since killing Defense wouldn't be as big a deal, Ninja's are either turtled or paper, little in between) to give the option to full DD more effectively.

Would be more fun, boost the DD side in directions SE seemed to want to go originally, could be balanced easily with the current jobs, and I don't imagine Nin's would mind... except for having to spend more gil... between shurikens and ranged gearsets >.<.


...or hell, just give Nin perma-sneak, and make stealth give something like -50% chance to be detected by sight.

[Zoot]

Hindsight, it's still a tremendous improvement over the years when we didn't have this option, being given an additional 22% slow tacked into our arsenal is far better than it was. Moreso than Elegy gaining an additional 2% from horn, the real kicker is the MND vs. MND equation that we face that will almost always bring us below our highest slow point on anything that actually matters.

I'm very anxious to test this out (Slow II lv5 with 75+70MND), to see if they will make any improvements in this department, but I won't hold my breath.

[Scorp]

I've always assumed that some tier 2 merits would hit a cap built into the game, such as Iron Will. Wouldn't 5 merits into Iron WIll give 95% spell interupt down, which could easily be pushed over 100% with gear/merits.

Would this then be dragged back to the general cap to interupts?

[Dohorehn]

it's always nice to hear about what could be improved upon on NIN instead of "Omgzz they got shadows!1! too powerful already~!!"

I mean really, I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Ninja is getting bland. It was my first job, and now I hardly even play it. Just because it's gotten to be so down right methodical and plain vanilla.
Attack speed isn't so unique anymore, as we can plainly see. Evasion is nice, ok whatever. But for god's sake... CAN WE NOT GET A FREAKING JA? Even Summoner got the MP siphon. And yeah, I agree Sange should be a lvl 45 ability... it's just not merit 2 quality, imo. Instead of merits that focus almost entirely on one aspect of the job, (ninjutsu) it would behoove SE and delight the playerbase to load up that shit with random JAs. They don't even have to be stupendous. Like the parry thing is feasible.

(damn this turned out to be a rant, lol. One more thing, SE stop being lazy! Why does the Sange animation look like BARRAGE, when all the other new jobs got cool new animations...)

/end NIN rant

[Toth]

What's wrong with Ninja tool expertise as a good Cat2 merit? I'm not a NIN but wouldn't that ability be worth 5 merits alone? Does it not proc a lot?