Battle Adjustments (05/28/2008)

[Xno Kappa]

LD's relevance to his argument on BLM in a nutshell...

Captain: Are you ready kids?
Kids: Aye-aye Captain.
Captain: I can't hear you...
Kids: Aye-Aye Captain!!
Captain: Oh! Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants!
Captain: Absorbent and yellow and porous is he!
Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants!
Captain: If nautical nonsense be something you wish...
Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants!
Captain: Then drop on the deck and flop like a fish!
Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants!
Captain: Ready?
EveryBody: SpongeBob SquarePants! SpongeBob SquarePants! SpongeBob SquarePants!
Captain: SpongeBob.... SquarePants! Haha.

[Ahnuld]

if this new monk ability works the way i think it will, it may have the side effect of boosting all hth WS while active. also i wonder if counters will become kicks as well. what about jumps? i imagine a double attacked kick will look hilarious.

Not as awesome as hundred kicks would look! It'd be like watching riverdance on fast forward.

I can't wait!

[LD]

Of course I personally am not included in my argument because I haven't leveled BLM beyond 37.

If you mean the relevance IN my posts, then maybe you should actually read it instead of following aurik just because he's the biggest fish to go on a hate bender against me. If you have, then I politely disagree and would like to say your avatar is still an eyesore.

[Sanjiyan]

The problem with this new MNK ability is that, first of all, there's nothing wrong with a MNK's damage output right now (in exp). If this ability improves a MNKs damage output, and has a cooldown as long as duration, then normal H2H will not only be out the window, but also there will be many people complaining about how MNK got buffed when they didn't need it (oh wait... ) The only way this can happen without making H2H obsolete is giving it a reduced duration so it's not on full time.

If it doesn't improve a MNKs damage (in exp), then it better be made for HNMs. It also has to be better than chi blast to make it worthwhile (which is ~1000 dmg every 3 minutes, minimum), since by meleeing you're giving it TP, standing in range of AoE, and generally more troublesome than chi blasting which is actually pretty low maintenance. Logically I can't see this new ability changing the way a MNK WSs, which means even if a MNK can build TP and do respectable dot to a HNM using this ability, WSs will still suck as all H2H WSs aren't really good against HNMs. Also, this ability will have to be full time, otherwise it's even more situational and trivial against HNMs. It also doesn't help with HNMs that cannot be melee'd, whether it's really bad AoE, or like when wyrms are flying.

If it doesn't provide better damage in exp, and better damage than chi blasting, then it's pretty useless, isn't it? I just can't figure out in my head how SE can make this thing practical enough to cover some of the holes a MNK has in the game right now.

[Maxxthepenguin]

It is my duty as a human being to instill logic into everyone

oh god roflllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llll

Of course I personally am not included in my argument because I haven't leveled BLM beyond 37.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND Scene

[LD]

Just because I've never leveld BLM beyond a certain point, it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to understand how it works? Of course, that makes so much sense I might just break into song.

Quit with that bullshit line, even if that argument were still relevant to THIS argument, the fact is I haven't said anything FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

AM2's ISN'T as inefficient as they said, I never said it wasn't less efficient than T4. The fact that it is actively merit means it is used. The fact that Penance is only really useful on Salvage mobs means that AM2s see more use simply because a BLM nukes.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Just because I've never leveld BLM beyond a certain point, it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to understand how it works? Of course, that makes so much sense I might just break into song.

I've played that card before, trust me, it doesn't go well.

[Xno Kappa]

MNK's are completely fine and don't need any buff at all. They just all don't know how to effectively push the auto-attack button and press macros. My MNK is only level 4 but even I can see this.

Seriously, thats exactly what you sound like LD.

[Rocl]

Just because I've never leveld BLM beyond a certain point, it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to understand how it works? Of course, that makes so much sense I might just break into song.

I've played that card before, trust me, it doesn't go well.

See, I felt bad for you Maxx. Ours is a friendship based on the pity I have for you.

LD? Nobody cares about LD. He doesn't even try. Honestly, he should just masturbate himself to death.


Ooooh $10 if you film it and upload it to YouTube.

[Aquilo]

Was hoping for an increased combat skill merits cap. Would've been nice to be able to have 3 weapons capped.

[LD]

Heh heh, but depending on who you are, you might think the lvl 4 MNK was right. %D

I personally don't, but I've been playing this game for fucking ever. I've seen BLMs, I've seen how they work, I've seen their damage. I know every job, they aren't complicated. If I had just started yesterday and had no real experience with a 75 job, you might have a point, but I've played with practically every job at nearly eveery level. For me, your saying I can't have an educated opinion without playing the job is simply childish, especially since there's nothing WRONG with what I said.



Also, Rocl, as usualy, is correct except by 'should' he actually meant 'could' and I would charge at least $50.

[Shassira]

I'm kinda hoping we get a secondary kick animation D: It's gonna be annoying watching the same kick go over and over. Also, what if they restrict WSs to kick WS only? "But there is no kick WS!" Oh yah? Dragon Kick! =3 Teheeee!

Btw, i know people love to fool around with hopes of what abilities and things they could add, but you can be pretty certain that the chance of they adding something is inversely proportional the the amount of work needed to create it. For starters, if what you are hoping for involves creating new animations, you can already drop it because it's not coming. Just check it, even the SCH movements is just the normal JA animation but with a fliping book >> Way to do one for all. If it includes flashy effects, then maybe yes, maybe not. If it's just number fixing and data changing, then it's more likely. Yup =P

Oh! And on the NIN topic, Sange itself is actualy a decent JA which has uses and does decent dmg. It just happens to suffer from the same problem as bst pets: price and availability of the tools. I dunno about you, but the normal end game player doesn't really have thousands of gil to toss on shuriken that are worth at 75 (not to mention they stack at 12 >>
Nin. Tool Experise is lovely, it actualy is, i use so many tools less that it realy shows (between that and AF2 gloves). It's just that a JT that makes you waste less gil, although nice to have, isn't exactly something to write home about since you just can substitute that with gil Basicly it does not improve your field performance (unless you run out of tools so much that you could say that Nin tool expertise saved your life making you have enough tools to end the fight >>)

[arus2001]

That, and he used to like to buy up cheap zephyr's/arctic/etc and peg people in pvp with them, which still makes me laugh my ass off having seen someone actually stop mid battle and ask "what the fuck was that?"

Xavian's ranged attack hit's Soandso for 296 points of damage.
Additional effect: 296 Damage.

I lol'd.

[Burnsy]

The problem with this new MNK ability is that, first of all, there's nothing wrong with a MNK's damage output right now (in exp). If this ability improves a MNKs damage output, and has a cooldown as long as duration, then normal H2H will not only be out the window, but also there will be many people complaining about how MNK got buffed when they didn't need it (oh wait... ) The only way this can happen without making H2H obsolete is giving it a reduced duration so it's not on full time.

If it doesn't improve a MNKs damage (in exp), then it better be made for HNMs. It also has to be better than chi blast to make it worthwhile (which is ~1000 dmg every 3 minutes, minimum), since by meleeing you're giving it TP, standing in range of AoE, and generally more troublesome than chi blasting which is actually pretty low maintenance. Logically I can't see this new ability changing the way a MNK WSs, which means even if a MNK can build TP and do respectable dot to a HNM using this ability, WSs will still suck as all H2H WSs aren't really good against HNMs. Also, this ability will have to be full time, otherwise it's even more situational and trivial against HNMs. It also doesn't help with HNMs that cannot be melee'd, whether it's really bad AoE, or like when wyrms are flying.

If it doesn't provide better damage in exp, and better damage than chi blasting, then it's pretty useless, isn't it? I just can't figure out in my head how SE can make this thing practical enough to cover some of the holes a MNK has in the game right now.

The whole point to this MNK JA is to make them a more effective DoT tool against HNM level monsters, at least that's how SE first pitched it before WoTG even came out.

Exp/Merit party damage isn't something I'd think they'd mess with considering MNKs had a huge popularity boost after the implementation of ToAU, so I really don't see the Kick Stance as something they intended for those situations.

Chi Blast is always still an option, even moreso now with the raising of the caps on group 2 (subtle blow+25% Tp reduction for a minute and a half), I just think they saw that the downtime in charging boost for a really effective chi blast was something the player base has moved away from. Since being at endgame level I have used Chi Blast less and less, as my merits/gear improved I just did more damage punching.

How it's actually going to work is going to be what we'll all have to wait and find out, and getting in fights over stuff we don't know about yet seems awefully silly to me, but LD is still my hero



P.S. There isn't a mob in the game that isn't "supposed" to be melee'd, just some have more adverse effects from doing so, and healers are fucking pussies.

[Ahnuld]

I'm kinda hoping we get a secondary kick animation D: It's gonna be annoying watching the same kick go over and over.

I've spotted two different kick animations not including Dragon Kick.

The Normal Kick Attacks motion and the low kick only seen in the Combo and Raging Fists motions.

[Dohorehn]

god, how cool would it be if they just made the animation for the kick stance comprise of all three of those... kick, low kick, spin kick, repeat.

Hyakuretsu Kyaku! Chun-Li ftw.

[Starless]

You know what would really be awesome though, if they made a set of category 3 merits with special aspects about the job. But, after using a merit in this category it would apply to all of your jobs. So for example if they offered another triple attack rate enhancement in THF category 3, meriting it 3/3 there would give all your 75 jobs 3% TA. I know some people will hate the idea of this, and I can understand it, but... I still think it'd be pretty awesome, and something new/different.

That would be awesome, but I give a big resounding NO to giving the effect to all your 75 jobs. The last thing people need is being laughed at for not having every single DD job up to 75 so you can be the best little DRK you can be. Do you really want to level a job you don't even want to all the way to 75 just so you can have a minor increase? If anything, a final, tier 3 job specific merit should be (IMO) an upgrade to your 2hr, since SE knows what the fuck they're doing now and can make all of them actually generally useful.

[Ahnuld]

god, how cool would it be if they just made the animation for the kick stance comprise of all three of those... kick, low kick, spin kick, repeat.

Hyakuretsu Kyaku! Chun-Li ftw.

Prishe & Maat have some fighting motions I wish we had like that Prishe Dropkick!

[Genosync]

Heh heh, but depending on who you are, you might think the lvl 4 MNK was right. %D

I personally don't, but I've been playing this game for fucking ever. I've seen BLMs, I've seen how they work, I've seen their damage. I know every job, they aren't complicated. If I had just started yesterday and had no real experience with a 75 job, you might have a point, but I've played with practically every job at nearly eveery level. For me, your saying I can't have an educated opinion without playing the job is simply childish, especially since there's nothing WRONG with what I said.

A. Playing BLM in HNM experiences is much more akin to playing BLM in XP pts, which doesn't happen as often now as it did 4 years ago.

B. You do not fully understand the concepts of BLM hate control until you have experienced these numerous XP pts, as well as numerous mobs and how their hate works and tanks/healers are able to manage this hate relationship.

C. You speak on things you have not experienced yourself--the only reason why I talk on so many goddamn things is because I have experienced nearly all of the game myself, and the 1400ish job levels I obtained prove it.

So you haven't leveled your own BLM past Lv37? Just because you've toyed around on a 75BLM doesn't mean shit about your knowledge of the job, same thing as watching 75BLMs trying to play it--because everyone knows the majority of BLMs play it dead fucking wrong.

Now shut up and get the fuck out of the thread, you're speaking on things you know nothing of, and you constantly prove it time and time again.

By the way, individual concepts of a job are a lot more complicated than you'd think and you don't actually get to see that until you play the job for an extended period of time in many, many circumstances yourself. gtfo before we start to make an example of you in spam, 'cause I'm really tempted to do it right now.

[LD]

..and the obligatory genosync post.

Nothing I have said should suggest I don't understand how hate or HNM BLM works, since I've never said that one SHOULD spam AM2s.

While I appreciate the value of experience, I find that people who have leveled a job, no matter how long, tend to see it exactly as they want, no matter the reality*. So I immediately dismiss everyone's opinion other than my own unless I hear a compelling enough argument or get proof either way. I stopped actually arguing the AM2 point 3~ pages ago, so this is more of a topic about how I'm not a BLM, which I can't argue against, but everything else I have and can. This is all just an attempt to 'wear me down' and I can honestly tell you I can go on until Niro's next birthday.



*Before someone brings up my many MNK enhancing concepts, I have only ever said that MNK needed help on high lvl/def mobs, which is something accepted by most people (the only thing that was ever desputed was whether than should be changed.) Since they're adding something that can potentially rectify that problem, I no longer have any complaints. Even if I do after the KAJA is tested, at least SE made the effort, so it can eventually be refined.