Updates? In my ruke LJ?

[Doofus]

http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/

Covers /war vs /drg for sam, gear sets and more!

[Eanae]

<+Siniroth> 'hey, cor, why are you sucking so much now?' 'ruke updated his lj' 'wait wtf?' >> *entire party goes afk*

Ruke - Ruining perfectly good parties with his live journal!

[Doofus]

that cor was totally not me >.>

[Fallso]

[16:32] <Fallso> oh wow
[16:32] <Fallso> ruke updated his LJ
[16:32] <Doofus> liar
[16:32] <Doofus> LIAR

The update is a lie!

[isladar]

And here I thought he was teasing me when he enfriend'd me.

[Mulligan]

Just wondering, is there a reason why he doesn't have a bushinomimi when he has a relic GK?

[chapstick]

also a ridill war and a ninja, could explain that.

[BlackMoomba]

[Sho]

SAM/DRG gotz mad hops yo.

[Maxxthepenguin]

One minor issue, you don't mention how double attack increases both TP gain AND WS damage.

The similar WS damage is really strange though and I think you need to test that some more. 10% DA alone should give you a ~25 increase in average damage and Berserk only adding 13 damage to WSes seems off to me, even accounting for the low gains in normal hits. Does Kaiten possibly have a naturally high attack value similar to Gekko?

[Veli]

Just wondering, is there a reason why he doesn't have a bushinomimi when he has a relic GK?

You answered the question..

[Alexandor]

Need to try these subs out on some HNMs ;x , with and without brd minu. /war is prolly better when it comes to fights where you are brdless. Anyway- was interesting to read that topic. Thanks Ruke.

[Xanthe]

Very interesting read, thanks Ruke. It's definitely given me some things to consider with my SAM.

Knowing you've had a lot more interest in DRG as of late, and myself being a DRG main, I'd love to see what test results you could come up with regarding the effect of Drachen Greaves (+1) and Drake Ring on Jump and High Jump, especially if and how it figures into the damage formula, and once their effects are determined, whether or no they stack. The results would certainly help in deciding between full Ares's (if ZZ ever pops/drops) or a mix including the feet.

[RKenshin]

Boo was about to go to sleep before I saw this post.

I got yelled at for updating right before Dynamis, since right after the run people started paying attention to the LJ and the LJ topics rather than focusing on Einherjar gather. <.<

And here I thought he was teasing me when he enfriend'd me.

Better be ready for the next one then, coming up in 6 months!

Just wondering, is there a reason why he doesn't have a bushinomimi when he has a relic GK?

I originally had Suppa long before I even leveled SAM. 2 STR and 3.75 accuracy isn't worth trading for 5% dual wield, even if I'm not using it as often. There are no known special 'combat skill tiers' for GK or really any melee weapon (minus H2H), so hitting 304 skill is only visual appeal.

In addition in most situations I'm on capped on accuracy, and it's not like ~.5% acc will make or break anything to begin with. So I will likely always remain with Suppa.

One minor issue, you don't mention how double attack increases both TP gain AND WS damage.

The similar WS damage is really strange though and I think you need to test that some more. 10% DA alone should give you a ~25 increase in average damage and Berserk only adding 13 damage to WSes seems off to me, even accounting for the low gains in normal hits. Does Kaiten possibly have a naturally high attack value similar to Gekko?

I already went into all that , and yes Kaiten hits extremely hard even without Berserk. I had a high of 1,5xx damage as /DRG without a DA, which completely screws with the WS equation but I've long since given up on it with this WS.

But, again to repeat what I said... The WS difference between them is so small because I was already near-capped in attack values for both subjobs. This is pretty obvious in the fact that adding what, 200 (?) attack from Berserk that is up 3/5ths of the time, only added 9 points to my melee average? Unless it's normal for ~200 attack to only add 9 points? It's only common sense to put together that if this was true for melee damage, then the same is likely true for WS. So it's safe to assume I was nearly capped on attack for both, so Berserk had very little effect on my WS/melee averages. Which was a significant point I brought up on multiple parts of the post.

I also said that multiple other parses had similar results to the ones I posted, so I'm rather confident it's not a matter of sample size either. The odds of over 1000 WS and over 5000 swings still being off on their true average by a considerable amount are near-impossible (if not completely impossible). There's obviously room for a few to several points of inaccuracy, but nothing big enough to change the standings in the final results.

Need to try these subs out on some HNMs ;x , with and without brd minu. /war is prolly better when it comes to fights where you are brdless. Anyway- was interesting to read that topic. Thanks Ruke.

Yeah, anywhere you're either not capped or low on attack (or both) you'll probably see higher output from /WAR. I'd like to confirm this to be sure still, and will eventually.

Very interesting read, thanks Ruke. It's definitely given me some things to consider with my SAM.

Knowing you've had a lot more interest in DRG as of late, and myself being a DRG main, I'd love to see what test results you could come up with regarding the effect of Drachen Greaves (+1) and Drake Ring on Jump and High Jump, especially if and how it figures into the damage formula, and once their effects are determined, whether or no they stack. The results would certainly help in deciding between full Ares's (if ZZ ever pops/drops) or a mix including the feet.

Don't hold your breath, I never quested DRG AF1 , even though I really want Feet/Head. I skipped it though, and no clue when I finally get the motivation to get it done, much less start on more complicated Jump tests.

Jumping on bunnies for an hour or so was so not fun after the first 10 seconds though.

[Max™]

Liar, Jumping on bunnies is always fun.

When I'm running random quests through outdoor areas I like to go war/drg just to runby stomp on things, humming the mario bros music as I do it. *BOWNBOWNBOWN*

Doo-doo-doo-doodoodoodoo, dun-nundun-dun-dundun-dun-dundundun-dunnununun.

Also: did you get that thing I sent you, the PM about Drg having a lvl 10 Attack bonus trait, nullifying the lvl 30 war one in comparison?

[RKenshin]

I love drive-by jumping, but it gets 100x less fun when you realize you have to sit around and wait for the next 90s to do it again... With nothing else to do in the mean time.

And yeah, I made the changes. Thanks!

[Mulligan]

I would be interested to see a parse with hagun and with a more common food like say coeurl subs. As he stated a few times he is very near the damage cap with Relic. I think if hagun were used the attack difference with berzerk would result in more than a 9 damage per hit average.

[Xanthe]

Very interesting read, thanks Ruke. It's definitely given me some things to consider with my SAM.

Knowing you've had a lot more interest in DRG as of late, and myself being a DRG main, I'd love to see what test results you could come up with regarding the effect of Drachen Greaves (+1) and Drake Ring on Jump and High Jump, especially if and how it figures into the damage formula, and once their effects are determined, whether or no they stack. The results would certainly help in deciding between full Ares's (if ZZ ever pops/drops) or a mix including the feet.

Don't hold your breath, I never quested DRG AF1 , even though I really want Feet/Head. I skipped it though, and no clue when I finally get the motivation to get it done, much less start on more complicated Jump tests.

Jumping on bunnies for an hour or so was so not fun after the first 10 seconds though.

Indeed, the jumping would get tiresome rather quickly, especially without merited timers. I'm fully merited and have pretty much everything save Ares's Gauntlets, Hecatomb Cap, Mars's Ring, and Gungnir, so I could probably do the tests in your stead. I haven't done much in the way of hard testing things like you have outside of math theory, but I imagine I would just need a sufficiently large sample size of Jumps, High Jumps, and melee swings (control) with and without Drachen Greaves +1 keeping stats at a consistent baseline, and repeating at a noticeably increased level for each stat I'd want to test, correct? What sample size would you recommend for such a test?

[ringthree]

I would be interested to see a parse with hagun and with a more common food like say coeurl subs. As he stated a few times he is very near the damage cap with Relic. I think if hagun were used the attack difference with berzerk would result in more than a 9 damage per hit average.

Yeah, this is the reason I am not running out to get a Wyvern Earring right now. I do not have the optimal gear, much less a relic to realize the benefit of this. I am going to parse anew and try out /DRG, I just don't know for the non-supra-opitmal-Rukenshin if it will be the best set up.

[Yutuyu]

Veeery interesting read. Almost enough to make me level a DRG sub for SAM.

The close WS results isn't very surprising. It's well-known that SAM WS has something strange going on with its being modified by attack in situations where what your fighting isn't naturally high-leveled or high-defense. Berserk never showed conclusive results for me on WSing except in those situations.

Also I've found that a double attack'd WS typically does about an extra 50% damage. Couple that with the 5% DA proc rate you're getting from war sub, and it turns out that 50% extra damage 5% of the time is only 2.5% damage increase on average per WS. And the extra point or two you get of STR is also negligable.

Personally though I'm going to be sticking with /war, provoke is too useful to pass up for the situation I use SAM in. Whenever I merit or do Salvage I'm main tank, and on HNMs berserk probably wins out.