Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots *contains spoilers*

[Koyuki]

as we're figuring out story further...

[spoiler:1hx5m320]how do you guys think it stacks up to previous MGSs? personally, I think that because Kojima is tying up all the lose ends in one game it can appear confusing or at least taxing to put all the pieces together.

There are a lot of wtf moments tho, sort of like in Lost. ie, Big Boss being alive/etc etc.

the one thing i dont get about foxdie is that wouldnt it mutate with the others as it had w/ snake or since they died sooner, it didnt have a chance to?

imo snake eater had a better story simply because it was the beginning and there wasnt a barrage of twists and wtf-moments that seemed like a stretch.[/spoiler:1hx5m320]

[spoiler:1hx5m320]wtf moments? everything was explained extremely well if you ask me.

The new foxdie stopped the old foxdie.. yes, this one will mutate eventually as well, but Snake will die way before that happens.

Big Boss being back isn't that out there, it actually made a lot of sense. I think he talked way too much, they should've spread the explanations around better. But overall, everything he said needed to be said, and i'm glad Kojima used Big Boss to tie all the final loose ends together.[/spoiler:1hx5m320]

[spoiler:1hx5m320]Sadly alot of people are saying that story was way to confusing. Personally I think the story was brilliantly told and that it was the only way to tell it.[/spoiler:1hx5m320]

[Exoduso]

as we're figuring out story further...

[spoiler:3khyu978]how do you guys think it stacks up to previous MGSs? personally, I think that because Kojima is tying up all the lose ends in one game it can appear confusing or at least taxing to put all the pieces together.

There are a lot of wtf moments tho, sort of like in Lost. ie, Big Boss being alive/etc etc.

the one thing i dont get about foxdie is that wouldnt it mutate with the others as it had w/ snake or since they died sooner, it didnt have a chance to?

imo snake eater had a better story simply because it was the beginning and there wasnt a barrage of twists and wtf-moments that seemed like a stretch.[/spoiler:3khyu978]

[spoiler:3khyu978]wtf moments? everything was explained extremely well if you ask me.

The new foxdie stopped the old foxdie.. yes, this one will mutate eventually as well, but Snake will die way before that happens.

Big Boss being back isn't that out there, it actually made a lot of sense. I think he talked way too much, they should've spread the explanations around better. But overall, everything he said needed to be said, and i'm glad Kojima used Big Boss to tie all the final loose ends together.[/spoiler:3khyu978]

[spoiler:3khyu978]Sadly alot of people are saying that story was way to confusing. Personally I think the story was brilliantly told and that it was the only way to tell it.[/spoiler:3khyu978]

[spoiler:3khyu978]I'm with you on that one... the story was very coherent throughout all the acts and closed up any and all loose ends the series had.

With that said, it will take a couple of playthroughs to fully understand everything that transpires in the game. Then again, it's been the exact same way with all MGS titles, so it's perfectly fine.[/spoiler:3khyu978]

[Belkin]

[spoiler:17jyvpv5]I think the story was told the only way it could be. But the thing that maybe some people had trouble with was the terminology. Some people might not fully understand what Nanomachines are (and what they are capable of), they might not know what Proxy Wars are, they might get confused with all the pronouns getting thrown out there, "the system" and it's different initials and parts. Even if you love the story overall, some of it is difficult to understand for people.

I had to look up what a Proxy War was

Not to mention if you missed even one game in the series, you are up shit creek with no paddle.[/spoiler:17jyvpv5]

[Exoduso]

[spoiler:3iowbld4]I think the story was told the only way it could be. But the thing that maybe some people had trouble with was the terminology. Some people might not fully understand what Nanomachines are (and what they are capable of), they might not know what Proxy Wars are, they might get confused with all the pronouns getting thrown out there, "the system" and it's different initials and parts. Even if you love the story overall, some of it is difficult to understand for people.

I had to look up what a Proxy War was

Not to mention if you missed even one game in the series, you are up shit creek with no paddle.[/spoiler:3iowbld4]

It seems like MGS3 played the biggest part out of the 3 heh. But yeah, you really have to play all of them (and in order, if you ask me... 1-2-3) if you want to get the most out of 4.

[Wintermute]

[spoiler:1to2t8yi]Only reason others would find the plot confusing is because they aren't up to speed on MGS lore.

MGS4 ties together the Metal Gear and Metal Gear Solid plots into one Epic piece. That's 21 years worth.

Additionally, most people rely on fan-made analysis of plots to understand what happens, in the previous games, using theories and hypothesis created on Forums.
Over-reliance on these fan-made documents makes it hard to grasp what MGS4; even the most commonly accepted fan theories (Liquid taking over Ocelot because he's empathetic to Spirits since he's the Sorrow's son) were debunked.

Most importantly MGS4 flips the other games, the plots, and the characters upside down.
Everything we knew, or thought we did, about the games, plots, and characters is obliterated as the larger picture comes into view.

How much did Liquid know back in MGS1? How long were the Patriots trying overthrow the AI? Was Ocelot really playing Liquid for a sucker in MGS1?

There's a stack of new questions raised, many of which will have us looking back at an entire series, not just a game or two.

Eva's exposition in Act 3 is probably one of the biggest Bombshells I've ever seen in a MGS game. The MGS3 crew are the Patriots? No-one could have dreamt that up.
And Big Boss closing the series out was brilliant. Those last few scenes in the graveyard with Snake and the Pistol and then Big Boss are some of the most powerful I've ever seen in a MGS game, and especially in any game.

Kojima really ties the series together in this game, and he ties a lot of loose ends without making it sound cheesy or contrived.

Your average MGS fan will follow the plot and get everything, a player with no MGS experience would prbably find it hard to follow the game, characters, and plot.

But you know what?
Fuck those types of players.
They're cunts.[/spoiler:1to2t8yi]

[Exoduso]

[spoiler:2q3pgfkn]Only reason others would find the plot confusing is because they aren't up to speed on MGS lore.

MGS4 ties together the Metal Gear and Metal Gear Solid plots into one Epic piece. That's 21 years worth.

Additionally, most people rely on fan-made analysis of plots to understand what happens, in the previous games, using theories and hypothesis created on Forums.
Over-reliance on these fan-made documents makes it hard to grasp what MGS4; even the most commonly accepted fan theories (Liquid taking over Ocelot because he's empathetic to Spirits since he's the Sorrow's son) were debunked.

Most importantly MGS4 flips the other games, the plots, and the characters upside down.
Everything we knew, or thought we did, about the games, plots, and characters is obliterated as the larger picture comes into view.

How much did Liquid know back in MGS1? How long were the Patriots trying overthrow the AI? Was Ocelot really playing Liquid for a sucker in MGS1?

There's a stack of new questions raised, many of which will have us looking back at an entire series, not just a game or two.

Eva's exposition in Act 3 is probably one of the biggest Bombshells I've ever seen in a MGS game. The MGS3 crew are the Patriots? No-one could have dreamt that up.
And Big Boss closing the series out was brilliant. Those last few scenes in the graveyard with Snake and the Pistol and then Big Boss are some of the most powerful I've ever seen in a MGS game, and especially in any game.

Kojima really ties the series together in this game, and he ties a lot of loose ends without making it sound cheesy or contrived.

Your average MGS fan will follow the plot and get everything, a player with no MGS experience would prbably find it hard to follow the game, characters, and plot.

But you know what?
Fuck those types of players.
They're cunts.[/spoiler:2q3pgfkn]

[spoiler:2q3pgfkn]It's their problem, really. But they can't go around saying the story is hard to comprehend, or that it's not that great. It's an amazing story and you will get all of it as long as you played all 3 MGS games.[/spoiler:2q3pgfkn]

[Kaylia]

[spoiler:2c7ai9x0]It's their problem, really. But they can't go around saying the story is hard to comprehend, or that it's not that great. It's an amazing story and you will get all of it as long as you played all 3 MGS games.[/spoiler:2c7ai9x0]

I know spoiler tag are nice and all, but not every single post need to be flagged . :D

[Exoduso]

[spoiler:1f6n1sn5]It's their problem, really. But they can't go around saying the story is hard to comprehend, or that it's not that great. It's an amazing story and you will get all of it as long as you played all 3 MGS games.[/spoiler:1f6n1sn5]

I know spoiler tag are nice and all, but not every single post need to be flagged . :D

Meh, I've gotten used to doing it in this thread lol.

[Wintermute]

[spoiler:ukjwscs3]It's their problem, really. But they can't go around saying the story is hard to comprehend, or that it's not that great. It's an amazing story and you will get all of it as long as you played all 3 MGS games.[/spoiler:ukjwscs3]

I know spoiler tag are nice and all, but not every single post need to be flagged . :D

Meh, I've gotten used to doing it in this thread lol.

We need to set a deadline on when to stop using them or start a new thread or some shit.

Tagging everything out of consideration for people who've not yet played is getting olde.

[Exoduso]

[spoiler:3s1njhlx]It's their problem, really. But they can't go around saying the story is hard to comprehend, or that it's not that great. It's an amazing story and you will get all of it as long as you played all 3 MGS games.[/spoiler:3s1njhlx]

I know spoiler tag are nice and all, but not every single post need to be flagged . :D

Meh, I've gotten used to doing it in this thread lol.

We need to set a deadline on when to stop using them or start a new thread or some shit.

Tagging everything out of consideration for people who've not yet played is getting olde.

The OP/Mods should just put a spoiler tag at the thread title and let people use their judgement.

[Gregorio]

Hahaha...I just figured somethin out during a cutscene. When Snake first meets Naomi in her little cabin (where you fight Laughing Octopus), there's a point where Naomi sits on the bed and kinda uncrosses her legs. At the same time, Snake pulls out a cigarette, drops it, then bends over to pick it up. No L1 first person view icon pops up, but if you push it anyway it goes into first person. If you look towards Naomi and up her skirt it fills Snakes psych gauge completely lol..

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread under some spoiler tag (didnt feel like going back and checking them all), but I found it pretty funny.

Also, I feel bad for Snake...I don't think the poor guy has never gotten to finish a cigarette.

[Poopfacekilla]

Anyone going for clear on highest difficulty setting?

[spoiler:db1evg4h]As in Big Boss camo.. No alets/continues/kills/food yea?

If anyone is, do all kills count, even when you're being attacked as part of the story, ie when you first meet up with Meryl and you and her crew are fighting their way through that building while being chased by those robot ninja chicks?[/spoiler:db1evg4h]

[Exoduso]

Anyone going for clear on highest difficulty setting?

[spoiler:2np4xkgt]As in Big Boss camo.. No alets/continues/kills/food yea?

If anyone is, do all kills count, even when you're being attacked as part of the story, ie when you first meet up with Meryl and you and her crew are fighting their way through that building while being chased by those robot ninja chicks?[/spoiler:2np4xkgt]

Obviously if you kill a FROG during that part it counts... it's a kill lol.

[Poopfacekilla]

[spoiler:2n8jx4rc]hmm, so basically, anything? will be interesting to see how we're supposed to get through the leadup to the Rage boss battle among other things.[/spoiler:2n8jx4rc]

[Exoduso]

[spoiler:3cxrc36a]hmm, so basically, anything? will be interesting to see how we're supposed to get through the leadup to the Rage boss battle among other things.[/spoiler:3cxrc36a]

[spoiler:3cxrc36a]You mean the chase? It could get annoying, or you could just equip a tranq. gun and shoot them, if they pass out they'll probably still blow up. But yes, everything and anything counts. I'd almost say that it's easier getting 2mil DP points and buying it on Act5 when everything is 50% off.[/spoiler:3cxrc36a]

[Gregorio]

Not everything counts. You can kill the Gekkous, the 3 Armed machine things, the flying bird machines, basically anything that's unmanned. Also, if you tranq the frogs and they fall to their death or one of your allies kills them, it doesn't count as a kill.

I'm going for a no-kill playthrough right now. I'm not looking forward to the motorcycle chase or the chase in the hummer type thing.

[Exoduso]

Not everything counts. You can kill the Gekkous, the 3 Armed machine things, the flying bird machines, basically anything that's unmanned. Also, if you tranq the frogs and they fall to their death or one of your allies kills them, it doesn't count as a kill.

I'm going for a no-kill playthrough right now. I'm not looking forward to the motorcycle chase or the chase in the hummer type thing.

That's sort of comforting. Even though you can still avoid the unmanned enemies, either by sneaking or by using the different grenades.

And yeah, if you shoot someone with a tranq and they fall 5 floors and die it's not your fault, so I assumed it won't count.

[Poopfacekilla]

wouldnt the tally at the end of each act tell you how many times youve killed something? so if youve killed an AI enemy would it show up? perhaps this tally is not related

[Gregorio]

Killing the unmanned stuff nets you drebbin points. I got a crap ton of points killing the 3 armed things toward the end of my first playthrough in that long hallway running to the microwave hall. I'm not sure if they ever stop respawning there, but when they all get into a group I'd shoot a grenade at them and take out a bunch, rinse, repeat. I should have stayed there for a long time killing them, but I wasn't thinking of it at the time.

Anyone get that matchlock gun? Why's it cost so much?

[Arachna]

Added spoiler tag to thread title. As for what kills count against you when going for the Big Boss rank, it's just human kills, taking down Gekkous and Scarabs don't count.