Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots *contains spoilers*

[Robert]

my disc for 3 is scratched, it goes to load the first level and fails

[archibaldcrane]

...Um no. I'm pretty sure I got the story, I just also thought that it could have been constructed much better. It's not post-modern (maybe a few things, but not really on the whole), it's not reflexive

[spoiler:1763c4i7]When the GW super computer is being destroyed by the virus, and you start to realize that the colonel is a creation of it, and it adversely affects your control system as Raiden himself was brought up by the Patriots and his own neural implants are being affected by the computer system he helped destroy, I'd consider that very much reflexive, striking even to the core of the video game experience - you, sitting behind a controller on the couch, become complicit in the Patriot's plans as a player, and even the game display independent of the characters within it begins to break down before your eyes "Fission Mailed" etc.[/spoiler:1763c4i7]I don't see how you don't consider that reflexive (pointing back at itself in its storytelling, in an extremely self-aware fashion, and it clearly displays "a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, and interconnectedness or interreferentiality." which is central to post-modern theory. It is deconstructionist (which is simply applied post-modernism) in a very literal way, breaking the game process down in front of your very eyes as it devolves due to the story elements progressing near the end.

What aspects are you disagreeing with me on?

[Exoduso]

Fission Mailed!

[Maxxthepenguin]

...Um no. I'm pretty sure I got the story, I just also thought that it could have been constructed much better. It's not post-modern (maybe a few things, but not really on the whole), it's not reflexive

[spoiler:1efbe6i1]When the GW super computer is being destroyed by the virus, and you start to realize that the colonel is a creation of it, and it adversely affects your control system as Raiden himself was brought up by the Patriots and his own neural implants are being affected by the computer system he helped destroy, I'd consider that very much reflexive, striking even to the core of the video game experience - you, sitting behind a controller on the couch, become complicit in the Patriot's plans as a player, and even the game display independent of the characters within it begins to break down before your eyes "Fission Mailed" etc.[/spoiler:1efbe6i1]I don't see how you don't consider that reflexive (pointing back at itself in its storytelling, in an extremely self-aware fashion, and it clearly displays "a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, and interconnectedness or interreferentiality." which is central to post-modern theory. It is deconstructionist (which is simply applied post-modernism) in a very literal way, breaking the game process down in front of your very eyes as it devolves due to the story elements progressing near the end.

What aspects are you disagreeing with me on?

[spoiler:1efbe6i1]The focus of the plot isn't post modern, what you mentioned was but overall, not really. Being a pawn is of no surprise at all after MGS1, I anticipated it. There was always something off about 'Rose' in any case. I guess my issue is that the post-modern stuff (including S3, which you didn't mention) gets all tacked on in this clusterfuck of different ideas that the game tries to cover, so it didn't stand out. Fission Mailed, to me, was just like the next Psycho Mantis thing, so was The Sorrow after that[/spoiler:1efbe6i1]

The main thing isn't really that the plot is bad, it is pretty good, just that it is terribly told. Compare to MGS3 which had much better focus, much better pacing, and was on the whole much more coherent and enjoyable.

[Kuya]

I don't think you could have missed his point anymore than you already did, even if your life depended on it.

[archibaldcrane]

I agree that it is similar to Psycho Mantis - but the difference is that the mind-fuck is because of a situation you create, not because of another character's special abilities.

God damnit these games are amazing.

I'd go on, but now I just want to play through the series again. I might have to stop by a store and pick up the collection on my way home - I can't find my MGS3 game.

[archibaldcrane]

Also, is anyone else going to take advantage of the Sonystyle credit card? Basically you can sign up for the credit card to finance your MGS4/PS3 bundle purchase, and get $100 off. You can even have 12 months no interest if you like. Only downside is you'll have to order online and wait for it to ship - hopefully you will be able to order it a few days before release and they can get it to you within a day or two of the 12th.

Sonystyle credit card deal: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... =sony_card

Sonystyle bundle - I signed up for the "tell me when it's available" so I can start my order immediately: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... &langId=-1

[Headspace]

God dammit.

2 more weeks to get this 40GB PS3 to sell on Craigslist. Shits impossible to move.

[*Shinzon*]

...Um no. I'm pretty sure I got the story, I just also thought that it could have been constructed much better. It's not post-modern (maybe a few things, but not really on the whole), it's not reflexive

[spoiler:2o92a3d7]When the GW super computer is being destroyed by the virus, and you start to realize that the colonel is a creation of it, and it adversely affects your control system as Raiden himself was brought up by the Patriots and his own neural implants are being affected by the computer system he helped destroy, I'd consider that very much reflexive, striking even to the core of the video game experience - you, sitting behind a controller on the couch, become complicit in the Patriot's plans as a player, and even the game display independent of the characters within it begins to break down before your eyes "Fission Mailed" etc.[/spoiler:2o92a3d7]I don't see how you don't consider that reflexive (pointing back at itself in its storytelling, in an extremely self-aware fashion, and it clearly displays "a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, and interconnectedness or interreferentiality." which is central to post-modern theory. It is deconstructionist (which is simply applied post-modernism) in a very literal way, breaking the game process down in front of your very eyes as it devolves due to the story elements progressing near the end.

What aspects are you disagreeing with me on?

[spoiler:2o92a3d7]The focus of the plot isn't post modern, what you mentioned was but overall, not really. Being a pawn is of no surprise at all after MGS1, I anticipated it. There was always something off about 'Rose' in any case. I guess my issue is that the post-modern stuff (including S3, which you didn't mention) gets all tacked on in this clusterfuck of different ideas that the game tries to cover, so it didn't stand out. Fission Mailed, to me, was just like the next Psycho Mantis thing, so was The Sorrow after that[/spoiler:2o92a3d7]

The main thing isn't really that the plot is bad, it is pretty good, just that it is terribly told. Compare to MGS3 which had much better focus, much better pacing, and was on the whole much more coherent and enjoyable.

It only seemed confusing because they used two main characters through the story. If we're still talking about MGS2. The story was excellent but told in a way in which the player needed to use some interpretation to figure it out. MGS3 was a simpler story because it was focused on telling and explaining in dept how it all started.

[archibaldcrane]

Ok, just picked up the Essential collection. Should I play them in 1,2,3 order, or chronological order (3,1,2)?

I haven't played 1 for probably 5 years. I beat 2 multiple times (including once where I played without radar, on the hardest setting, where if I got detected it was Mission Failed, and I didn't attack any enemies, period, except bosses, and every boss with a consciousness meter (most of them) I killed with tranquilizer darts and hand-to-hand) but not in the past couple years, and I never quite finished 3.

Suggestions?

[Pro]

1 - 2 - 3 is fine imo.

[Exoduso]

Just play them in order, 1-2-3.

[archibaldcrane]

Just play them in order, 1-2-3.

Bleh fine. That reduces my chances of finishing 3 before 4 comes out though Well, here goes!

[Exoduso]

They each take like 10 hours.. And as long as you finish 1 and 2 before 4 is out you'll be fine.

[Norellicus]

Yeah, play them in order. They may not be lined up chronologically but the jokes in 3 harken back to 1 and 2.

[Wintermute]

Yeah, play them in order. They may not be lined up chronologically but the jokes in 3 harken back to 1 and 2.

"Did you say virtual mission!?"

Need to lok into a PS3 for this game alone.

Is the PS3 in the MGS Bundle pack really Backwards Compatible with PS2 games? Might have to look into it if it is.

They even still making the Backwards Compatible PS3s or is the Emulation on the "Stick with your PStwo" level?

[archibaldcrane]

Is the PS3 in the MGS Bundle pack really Backwards Compatible with PS2 games? Might have to look into it if it is.

Yeah it is.

[Guitarman]

Love the graphics, though coming from Kojima I hardly expected anything less. I'm torn between being excited about seeing the whole thing wrap up, and being saddened to know I wont get to experience another of these games again.

Speculation time! As far as returning characters, i spotted in the official trailer:

[spoiler:346tlos7]Solid Snake (duh), Otacon, Revolver (liquid) Ocelot, Meryl, Naomi Hunter, Vamp and Raiden. The woman in the red coat REALLY strikes me as The Boss. I know she is supposed to be dead, but MGS has always been a mindfuck, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she is somehow still alive.[/spoiler:346tlos7]

[Headspace]

Love the graphics, though coming from Kojima I hardly expected anything less. I'm torn between being excited about seeing the whole thing wrap up, and being saddened to know I wont get to experience another of these games again.

Speculation time! As far as returning characters, i spotted in the official trailer:

[spoiler:254jvwlh]Solid Snake (duh), Otacon, Revolver (liquid) Ocelot, Meryl, Naomi Hunter, Vamp and Raiden. The woman in the red coat REALLY strikes me as The Boss. I know she is supposed to be dead, but MGS has always been a mindfuck, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she is somehow still alive.[/spoiler:254jvwlh]

[spoiler:254jvwlh]I thought it was EVE[/spoiler:254jvwlh]

[Belkin]

Lol Guitarman

[spoiler:3cr7dh6n]You can practically look on any website (Even the official one) and it tells you the woman in red is EVA[/spoiler:3cr7dh6n]