Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots *contains spoilers*

[Exoduso]

For the last time, they're not titled "in production", they're titled "Under Construction".

[Cydewinder]

Didn't even notice that part, I just copy+pasted.

[Exoduso]

Yeah I know, but I saw that on gamefaqs I believe and the idiots had a 5 page discussion about whether or not it's "under construction" or "in production".

[Koyangi]

Had some questions, just recently finished the game.

1. What was so spoilerific about act 3 after meeting Eva, after meeting her and she tells you her involvement in things(only spoilerish thing I felt), everything else felt like common knowledge from MGS3, or it mustv'e been really late when I was on that part and missed something.

2. Was Big Boss's "state of being" the same as Solidus' (as Solidus appeared to us when we see him) for all that time, or was it crafted (and by whom?) from liquid and solidus parts as soon as parts were made available. and did Liquid Ocelot know of Big Boss corpse and Solidus corpse as different entities and that's why he so freely tosses it back to Eva and burns it up (since it seems his entire goal was to revive big boss's corpse and was successful I'd want to beleive this).

[Merovingian]

Random MGS related links...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168338 -MGS5 talk

I wouldn't mind remakes of MG/MG2, or some more incidents BB went through. A prequel that lets you control The Boss and her Cobra Unit could be interesting, too. Or showing where the fuck Raiden was for 5 years. There's a lot of material to work with, should be interesting to see which one they're gonna choose.

I totally agree with this, the old metal gear story need a remake with a better story(the same one of course but more detailed and with more heart) hell i can even imagine the last conversation at the end for mg2 between maybe major zero and dr.clark on what to do with gray fox and big boss body.

[Krandor]

Had some questions, just recently finished the game.

1. What was so spoilerific about act 3 after meeting Eva, after meeting her and she tells you her involvement in things(only spoilerish thing I felt), everything else felt like common knowledge from MGS3, or it mustv'e been really late when I was on that part and missed something.

How is it being explained that basically the entire Snake Eater cast formed the Patriots not a huge thing?

[Merovingian]

Had some questions, just recently finished the game.

1. What was so spoilerific about act 3 after meeting Eva, after meeting her and she tells you her involvement in things(only spoilerish thing I felt), everything else felt like common knowledge from MGS3, or it mustv'e been really late when I was on that part and missed something.

How is it being explained that basically the entire Snake Eater cast formed the Patriots not a huge thing?

The thing is that until act 3 no one knew who the patriots were. The bigass bomb drop on act 3 is the shock of knowing the fate of the mgs3 team.

[Koyangi]

Then why did Snake say all the patriots have been dead for 100 years at the very end of MGS2. and if zero had been alive all this time till we finally see him, where was he all of this time prior.

[Wintermute]

Then why did Snake say all the patriots have been dead for 100 years at the very end of MGS2. and if zero had been alive all this time till we finally see him, where was he all of this time prior.

The list they get at the end of MGS2 are the Philosophers iirc, not the Patriots.

[Exoduso]

Then why did Snake say all the patriots have been dead for 100 years at the very end of MGS2. and if zero had been alive all this time till we finally see him, where was he all of this time prior.

The list they get at the end of MGS2 are the Philosophers iirc, not the Patriots.

you are correct, sir. They got the list of the original founders of the Philosophers... later dubbed "Patriots" by the MGS3 gang when they got hold of the legacy.

[Krandor]

Prior to Act 3 the only person we knew of who had direct involvement with the founding of the Patriots is Ocelot, with hints that Big Boss would also be a member (this comes from the end of MGS: Portable Ops).

[Exoduso]

Prior to Act 3 the only person we knew of who had direct involvement with the founding of the Patriots is Ocelot, with hints that Big Boss would also be a member (this comes from the end of MGS: Portable Ops).

And still, no one even thought of the SLIGHT POSSIBILITY that the MGS3 cast members are the founding members of the Patriots. It was a big shocker, IMO.

[Darus Grey]

And still, no one even thought of the SLIGHT POSSIBILITY that the MGS3 cast members are the founding members of the Patriots. It was a big shocker, IMO.

Really? I thought that was a plot twist even Ray Charles could see coming, a corny one at that(not to be taken as an insult by any means...It just felt obvious to me).

I gotta say I was heavily disappointed by MGS3/MGS4. It's clear the story was not thought out until far after the fact, and I was constantly falling through the plot holes.

[Krandor]

The only real "plotholes" I found once MGS 4 finished was my prior comment about the length of time Ocelot survived after being in contact with Snake (FOXDIE) and exactly why Meryl was able to be controlled by Mantis (her nanomachines would have to have been disabled for her to be attacking Outer Haven to begin with)

[Elcura]

The only real "plotholes" I found once MGS 4 finished was my prior comment about the length of time Ocelot survived after being in contact with Snake (FOXDIE) and exactly why Meryl was able to be controlled by Mantis (her nanomachines would have to have been disabled for her to be attacking Outer Haven to begin with)

Disabled, but there were still there. Mantis could reactivate nanomachines if they were disabled (Snake, Meryl) or dead (Frog soldiers).

But it's mostly because they wanted to reenact the Psycho Mantis fight.

[Kaylia]

I have one complain to make about MGS4. I understand their explanation with Ocelot, but the way they played it in MGS2 made it look differently. I have the feeling Kojima intended to have liquid controls Ocelot for real at first, but changed it when he tried to remove paranormal stuff from the series.

Also, didnt Otacon say something like "and one of them is one of our main benefactor" at the end of MGS2? What did he mean by that, and was it ever covered?

The only real "plotholes" I found once MGS 4 finished was my prior comment about the length of time Ocelot survived after being in contact with Snake (FOXDIE) and exactly

Obviously, they needed him alive for the epic fight near the end, but there is many other explanations. Liquid for example was exposed very early in MGS1 but took forever to dies, the adrenaline shot they were taking near the end might have helped him as well. Also, snake's virus mutated partially, it's very possible he wont affect everyone as fast now

[Daahan]

I don't really see how you can tell that the original members of FOX from MGS3 were going to be the Patriots. I mean, at the beginning of Operation Snake Eater, Zero mentions that when Snake has to meet up with ADAM, the question and passcode are "Who are the Patriots" and "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo." But you can't really discern from that that Zero would become the founder of the Patriots.

I also don't think it's cheesy or "random" that Zero becomes the founder of the Patriots. First, the reason the Patriots were created was to realize The Boss's dream of a unified world without conflict. Zero was no stranger to The Boss. At the beginning of MGS3 he mentions that they worked at SAS together, so they knew each other prior to MGS3. Also, the idea that Zero learns the truth about how The Boss was betrayed and what he dream was isn't farfetched. Although we don't see him directly learn about the truth at the end of MGS3, there's a good chance that Big Boss could have told him. Sigint and Para-Medic becoming members of the Patriots also isn't something that's lame and was simply done just because they could. Para-Medic is a respected and brilliant doctor in the fields of genetics and what not and Sigint is the foremost leader in weapons and technology information. If I were Zero, I would want the skills that those two possess at my sides.

I just downloaded the database off of PSN but I haven't got a chance to look at it, but what I'm curious is to how Zero basically takes over the entire world. I know he has money but I want to know how he actually ends up gaining control of the United States and later the world.

[Parshias]

I have one complain to make about MGS4. I understand their explanation with Ocelot, but the way they played it in MGS2 made it look differently. I have the feeling Kojima intended to have liquid controls Ocelot for real at first, but changed it when he tried to remove paranormal stuff from the series.

Also, didnt Otacon say something like "and one of them is one of our main benefactor" at the end of MGS2? What did he mean by that, and was it ever covered?

The only real "plotholes" I found once MGS 4 finished was my prior comment about the length of time Ocelot survived after being in contact with Snake (FOXDIE) and exactly

Obviously, they needed him alive for the epic fight near the end, but there is many other explanations. Liquid for example was exposed very early in MGS1 but took forever to dies, the adrenaline shot they were taking near the end might have helped him as well. Also, snake's virus mutated partially, it's very possible he wont affect everyone as fast now

In the after-credits scene in MGS1, Ocelot mentions that he survived FOXDIE because of some "vaccine." Didn't Big Boss mention a new FOXDIE at the end of the game, separate from the one that killed the AIs? I think Naomi gave Snake a new FOXDIE sometime around when she examined him and that's what killed EVA/Ocelot/Big Boss.

[Exoduso]

I have one complain to make about MGS4. I understand their explanation with Ocelot, but the way they played it in MGS2 made it look differently. I have the feeling Kojima intended to have liquid controls Ocelot for real at first, but changed it when he tried to remove paranormal stuff from the series.

Also, didnt Otacon say something like "and one of them is one of our main benefactor" at the end of MGS2? What did he mean by that, and was it ever covered?

The only real "plotholes" I found once MGS 4 finished was my prior comment about the length of time Ocelot survived after being in contact with Snake (FOXDIE) and exactly

Obviously, they needed him alive for the epic fight near the end, but there is many other explanations. Liquid for example was exposed very early in MGS1 but took forever to dies, the adrenaline shot they were taking near the end might have helped him as well. Also, snake's virus mutated partially, it's very possible he wont affect everyone as fast now

In the after-credits scene in MGS1, Ocelot mentions that he survived FOXDIE because of some "vaccine." Didn't Big Boss mention a new FOXDIE at the end of the game, separate from the one that killed the AIs? I think Naomi gave Snake a new FOXDIE sometime around when she examined him and that's what killed EVA/Ocelot/Big Boss.

No, the new FOXDIE was injected to him by Drebin in Act1.

And Darus Grey, you're full of shit. No one saw that coming (MGS3 cast being the founders of the Patriots)... maybe Ocelot and Big Boss, but the rest? Give me a break. (And even in Ocelot's case, the games made you think that he WORKS for the Patriots, not that he's one of the founders..)

[Auspice]

Then why did Snake say all the patriots have been dead for 100 years at the very end of MGS2. and if zero had been alive all this time till we finally see him, where was he all of this time prior.

The list they get at the end of MGS2 are the Philosophers iirc, not the Patriots.

you are correct, sir. They got the list of the original founders of the Philosophers... later dubbed "Patriots" by the MGS3 gang when they got hold of the legacy.

Do they ever specifically mention that or is it just conjecture? At the end of MGS2 I always thought the list was of famous American Patriots(like who they named the AIs after) and whatnot.