D&D 4th Edition Leaked

[Ketna]

I started playing DnD in 1999 with a few friends in highschool. This was 2nd edition, ADnD stuff. It was definatly different then what I thought it was going to be, it was a little ruff being the new guy at the table in 2nd edition but once you knew what you were doing it was so much fun.

When we all switched over to 3rd and 3.5rd ed. the game lost a lot of its fun. Im sure the game became more accessable to people new to PnP style games but for us it was boring. I guess its that was with anything once it gets popular or at least tries to get popular, you get rid of all the things that are "too difficult" for new people but those are usually the things that are the most fun once you understand the rules and how to use them.

I will probably check out 4th ed. but with the move toward mmo style "tank" "healer" it feels like they are taking away more and more of the FUN out of PnP style games. To me at least, like 70% of the fun was making stuff up instead of following the books or being limited by the books. Plus if I ever lived in a world where magic was real, I am assuming that it would be more powerful then a guy with a sword, which is why 2nd ed. made sense. From like lvl 1-6 wizards were paper thin, but after that they became more powerful, and the opposite was true for melee. Very strong at first, and realitivly weaker then mages after, but since you didnt need money to melee, like you did to cast spells, you could always buy gear that made you better.

I guess thats just my opinion but it feel like they are Disneyifying everything, not just in DnD but in everything today.

[Maxxthepenguin]

The IRC thing failed because D&D 3.5e is fucking miserable and slow without miniatures.

Especially when your monk is scheming with a priest in a temple for 30 minutes.

4e seems to be even more miniature based lawl. In fact people are making comparisons to Chainmail(Wizard's old miniature game) and Magic the Gathering. And... WoW.

So far I'm heavily discouraged by there is no hope of customization. With 3e(and yeah, 3.5) you could make a whole class in 15 minutes flat and you only need to playtest it and you are set. You could go online and find thousands of fan classes. That looks to be impossible now.

I'm thinking this is intentional. There were dozens of time I used the free fan idea or cheaper-third party instead of buying what Wizards released. But then again, some of Wizards book sucked so much that the former were superior in every way(outside art ^______^). Pretty sure I've read 4e isn't open source, but I'm really out of the loop.

As for playing online, they are making it easier now with their attempt to steal MMORPG players.

I like the base classes being more complex tbh. You can still make your own, and those paragon and epic classes will be easy to make for yourself, but it gives the base classes more flavor. The thing that angers me though is the removal of all Monkishness. D&D monks are fun as hell You can't even make one with the feats they provide.

Also damn those miniature requirements. I really hope somebody hacks the client so we can play for free.

Also, those Dragonborn seem retardedly overpowered.

I do really like a lot of the changes though, especially how they changed powers to at-will, encounter, and daily.

And yeah Alleya, fuck that Maat Stonehill guy, rite?

[Kyreth]

Around 3.5 I went retro and fell in love with Hackmaster, which sadly decided to not renew it's license with WoTC to keep producing game material.

Arguably one of the most fun old-school D&D clones on the market. If your local game store has any of the books, look through them with tongue in cheek and think about what an actual game is like.

(Hint: Hilarious, with huge amounts of PC maiming and mangling.)

[SilverBreeze]

I haven't been interested in 4e at all. I've been playing DnD since 2nd edition, and I really enjoy what 3rd edition did for the game, but 4e just looks and sounds like crap for someone who's been playing so long.

Right now I'm Alpha testing the new Pathfinder RPG by Paizo, that will continue to be DnD and use 3.5 rules, because with all the shit they're releasing and changing in 4e, I'll pass.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

[guartz]

fuck it, I wanna play.

Who wants to DM an internet game?!


2nd edition preferb. Gonna reroll 'til I have 18/00 str

[BRP]

Tank and Healer system is the worse thing about MMORPG party systems imo.

On an unrelated matter: Monks and other classics will probably come out with the PHB2.

[Maguspk]

How do you play online, I'd be down for that Guartz.

[BRP]

I was thinking about running an E6 game with heavy FFXI influences awhile back. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206323

[Parshias]

One of the best changes from 3.5 to 4th Ed is giving tanks abilities that lets them actually... tank. Sure, the Fighter or Paladin can stand in front, and have a big shield, but he doesn't really have much at his disposal to stop the gigantic dragon from just walking past him, taking the one measly AoO, and then turning the mage into paste.

[Darus Grey]

One of the best changes from 3.5 to 4th Ed is giving tanks abilities that lets them actually... tank. Sure, the Fighter or Paladin can stand in front, and have a big shield, but he doesn't really have much at his disposal to stop the gigantic dragon from just walking past him, taking the one measly AoO, and then turning the mage into paste.

If the mage is standing right there he deserves to die ;0

[BRP]

I think the best range of adventuring will be 1-11. Won't go past that. 20+ seems to be just epic, like last edition, only that it's included in the PHB.

I like the rules, but I don't like the races or classes much(or lack thereof). I'm not sure how I feel about powers. They seem cool, but very limiting in a way. This edition seems to borrow a lot from some of the better d20 rulesets. I like.

I do feel like playing a game of it though. Seems like it could be fun tactically.

[izembo]

yea i got a set of 4 people irl who are wanting to give it a try, unfortunately i cant actually start playing till we hire a new 3rd key at work. but ill have the books fully read by then so i at least know whats going on when i dm it!

[BRP]

Breathing a small bit of life into our DnD section with a little discussion. Probably will be missed, so placing it here:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=34318

[Rocl]

The IRC thing failed because D&D 3.5e is fucking miserable and slow without miniatures.

Especially when your monk is scheming with a priest in a temple for 30 minutes.

Oh god my arrow disappeared in the void of nothingness. Fuck yeah inspiring courage! ONCE A DAY HAVE +1 TO YOUR ATTACK ROLLS. OH GOD ITS MINUETTTTTTTTTTTTT

His name was Rocl, he was a bard
What he did, wasn't very hard
He shot an arrow, oh so true
Only to have it land- in his shoe!

[Maxxthepenguin]

The IRC thing failed because D&D 3.5e is fucking miserable and slow without miniatures.

Especially when your monk is scheming with a priest in a temple for 30 minutes.

Oh god my arrow disappeared in the void of nothingness. Fuck yeah inspiring courage! ONCE A DAY HAVE +1 TO YOUR ATTACK ROLLS. OH GOD ITS MINUETTTTTTTTTTTTT

His name was Rocl, he was a bard
What he did, wasn't very hard
He shot an arrow, oh so true
Only to have it land- in his shoe!

Bagel + Rocl dynamic duo of flavor was the highlight :D

[Artemas]

That link was fantastic.

The 4th Edition books are on demonoid.com, btw. Excellent copies.

I loved Second Edition. If I had a group near me that played that, I would nerd it up in a minute.

[Colm]

I started a campaign as a PC with some friends who play (and used to play FFXI). Combat is pretty fun so far. Using your at-will abilities all the time is important to making combat easier, there's no real point to basic attacks except for AoO's. It's nice having a bunch of different options, even at level 1. Unfortunately, we couldn't get much done since one of our players lives in Holland and fell asleep at 2:00AM his time. >_>

[Fuuko]

From what I've seen its not even the same game anymore. I like the idea of encounter/daily/etc powers, over the memorize idiocy crap. Melee have a lot more options in combat now, which is nice. It just looks like its going to end up playing more like a strategy game than a pnp, at least in combat. Roleplaying has and always will be dependent on ones group and how good of a GM you have.

Though, I could see a great computer game being made out of the rules. It would be fairly easy to set up a simple interface with maps, and icons for combat with the rules. Hmmm I suppose you could make combat and such like a Civilization type interface, and have roleplaying elements and cut scenes full action or at least rendered.

[Maguspk]

I started a campaign as a PC with some friends who play (and used to play FFXI). Combat is pretty fun so far. Using your at-will abilities all the time is important to making combat easier, there's no real point to basic attacks except for AoO's. It's nice having a bunch of different options, even at level 1. Unfortunately, we couldn't get much done since one of our players lives in Holland and fell asleep at 2:00AM his time. >_>

How did you play onlineeee?

[Darus Grey]

From what I've seen its not even the same game anymore. I like the idea of encounter/daily/etc powers, over the memorize idiocy crap. Melee have a lot more options in combat now, which is nice. It just looks like its going to end up playing more like a strategy game than a pnp, at least in combat. Roleplaying has and always will be dependent on ones group and how good of a GM you have.

Problem is(and my major issue with 4th edition), the system itself determines the type of people who are attracted to it. 4th edition really is just a miniature tactics game with an RPG varnish. 3E(even though I loved 3e, but it was so power-gamer roll-player friendly, that thats the audience it drew) already did a lot to alienate role-players, 4th is just burying it.

It's really hard to find like-minded players to have a role-playing medium/heavy game when the system itself discourages it, and those players likely into it, will actively avoid it.
Part of the RPG renaissance of the last 8yrs(it's more commercially viable than ever to produce a niche game system) is because all the people who didn't need to switch from D&D/D20 before because it met all their needs, feel alienated.

Yes, it's perfectly possible and reasonable to simply stick to 2nd/3rd edition. Though you face the same issue of finding appropriate players. That aside, it's simply demoralizing for the company you've supported for 20+ years to basically be telling you, you're not a valued customer, because you're not part of their target demographic(this is probably the biggest effect 4th edition is going to have on veterans).