New JA animations:MNK BRD PLD JAs and Enspell II,Wyv breaths

[Vail]

Definitely not worth the merit points IMO

Don't get me wrong Phalanx II is a decent spell use it if you have it

in just one page you've taken your stance back ~ good game~

The reasons for bringing a rdm isn't just for phalanx, it's apart of a bundle package, you get haste and refresh with it, and the most MP productive job (convert)

with a SCH you miss out on haste and refresh, unless you bring another rdm or a whm(which then you still lack refresh if you only bring a whm) and SCH can't pull as much MP out of thin air as a rdm can on demand.

SCH is an amazing job, I'm leveling, I like it. But there is no way my SCH will do some of the insane things I've done on RDM already. SCH defiantly beats out my whm in usefulness but not my RDM, not a chance.

Fully merited phalanx II last 3minutes right now, you're telling me your tanks don't get hit 10 times in 3 minutes for salvage bosses? 3minutes is a long time to say your tanks don't get hit. and MNKs don't exactly take small damage from attacks from bosses, so any HP you can save of theirs that doesn't put them at 0hp is worth alot then just hp/mp cure effeciency. Phalanx II isn't ment to save their MP it's ment to reduce the MP use of all the other healers (you know the ones who don't have convert or x2-3 refresh gear)

Most salvage groups I know of use a form of phalanx, and given the choice between hi-potions or phalanx (or even phalanx + hi-potions) they're gonna take phalanx with them whenever possible.

[Virtuous Saint]

phalanxII for 3min -22dmg per hit, on average, if you are fighting like you should be around 100 hits taken(even 50 would be greater): -2200dmg taken for 42mp > cureIII or cureIV by far.

[shirak]

I'd rather not see my tank take 50-100 hits over 3min.

What ppl aren't understanding, the opportunity cost (availability of sch/smn, prevalence of /nin tanking, # of upgrades till it is worthwhile versus strength of other rdm cat2 spells) of phalanxII is what detracts from it, not the actual spell itself.

Its not a bad thing to merit at all, but its not crucial that a rdm have it by any means, in fact, a rdm will probably get better mileage out of a combination of other merits unless they are exclusively the starting main healer of a salvage group. And even then think of the angst when one of the group members finishes up sch and takes that rdm's place as opening healer... all those merits poof, worthless for that purpose.

[Virtuous Saint]

Almost everything beneficial in the game is not needed to kill all mobs in the game, and survive. It is all a help. Skill is what is needed, and in most situations not a lot of that is needed, as can be seen by certain people, and linkshells killing almost everything in the game. The hardest, and most skill based victories in the game will be seen from einherjar tierIII, I expect this to be the hardest area of the game for a while. I will say however, I wish they would add more instances like that of einherjar, with similar difficulty. Einherjar is probably the most fun you can have in this game at this time. Should not be nurfed in anyway other than what has already been done(reduced HP). Items, buffs, ect. are meant for 1 reason, to help kill and survive. You do not need an Aegis to kill anything in the game, it is a huge help, that is all.

No one ever said you have to have phalanx to beat salvage, it is a help like protect, shell, SS, haste ect...

[Kenji]

Uh.
I said Salvage group, that's usually 6-10 people.

An Endgame LS is usually around 18-24ish(maybe more)... you do the math Mr. "something I pulled out of my ass"

Sounds like you have a small LS. Also sounds like you have a problem. So you make due with your small numbers and inability to recruit, while the rest of FFXI has someone who has SCH leveled.

What ppl aren't understanding, the opportunity cost (availability of sch/smn, prevalence of /nin tanking, # of upgrades till it is worthwhile versus strength of other rdm cat2 spells) of phalanxII is what detracts from it, not the actual spell itself.

This, people. We'll take this nice and simple: An RDM going for Phalanx II, has to give up something else. It has to give a potent Slow, or paralyze II, etc.

Giving a tank Phalanx is nice.

Giving a tank phalanx while debuffing the mob with slow II, para II, Bio 3, etc. is even better.

[Sunrider]

This, people. We'll take this nice and simple: An RDM going for Phalanx II, has to give up something else. It has to give a potent Slow, or paralyze II, etc.

Giving a tank Phalanx is nice.

Giving a tank phalanx while debuffing the mob with slow II, para II, Bio 3, etc. is even better.

And letting the SCH Accession-Phalanx while the RDM debuffs the mob with Slow 2, Paralyze 2, Bio 3, etc., is just awesome.

[Araius]

When I think of Phalanx, I think of paying for beer.


Asshole A jogs 3 miles to the store, pays $8 for ONE WARM BOTTLE of Budweiser, jogs back to enjoy his beer, or give it to his chick. Whatever.
When I think of RDM meriting and casting Phalanx 2, I think of Asshole A.

Asshole B runs a mile-long obstacle course to the store, and pays $12 for a six-pack of ice-cold Bud Lite. Goes back home to enjoy with friends.
When I think of SMN obtaining Diabolos to cast Noctoshield, I think of Asshole B.

Asshole C, now this guy is special. He strolls around the corner to the same store as Assholes A and B, and also pays $8... but for a six pack of ice-cold Budweiser.
When I think of SCH/RDM using Accession and casting Phalanx, I think of Asshole C.

Decent analogy, except for what kind of moron would pay $8 for a pack of Bud and think that was a good deal.

Basically the only meaningful plus for Phalanx II (before the expansion to T2 merits) is the lack of 75 SCH's. Your server's/LS's/Salvage group's results will vary, obviously, but for those not blessed with 75 SCH's at their disposal, Phalanx II is still a very worthwhile alternative, especially if your resident RDM already has it. I never got it because 2 of the other RDM's I hung out with already had it maxed, but if none of them did, I would have taken it over Dia III.

I guess what I'm trying to say is [spoiler:v8cycvdq]Shit is situational.[/spoiler:v8cycvdq]

On topic: If those Enspell II thingies are actually released, I'm choking a kitten and calling up my sis to get my install CD's back

[Sunrider]

Basically the only meaningful plus for Phalanx II (before the expansion to T2 merits) is the lack of 75 SCH's.

And even then, it's only a matter of time. I give it about a year before SCH is a regular part of everyone's endgame activities, six months from then before it's value becomes widespread and the bandwagon effect takes place, another six months before everybody's got SCH leveled, much in the same fashion as RDM and BRD. All extremely conservative estimates, mind you.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

And letting the SCH Accession-Phalanx while the RDM debuffs the mob with Slow 2, Paralyze 2, Bio 3, etc., is just awesome.

Until SCH gets group II merit Strategems that enhance the potency of the next debuff or buff.

[Ohemgee]

And letting the SCH Accession-Phalanx while the RDM debuffs the mob with Slow 2, Paralyze 2, Bio 3, etc., is just awesome.

Until SCH gets group II merit Strategems that enhance the potency of the next debuff or buff.

Or just enhance Rapture and Ebullience.

[Lordwafik]

D ring on the other hand is a different story - we are talking about 10% damage mitigation not small fixed amount of damage like Phalanx.

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

D.ring performs worse than phalanx on a lot of things. How much dmg is saved from something that hits your PLD for 100 dmg? (limbus/dynamis/sky farm) 10 dmg! Less than phalanx by 12-16. Phalanx doing an average 22-26 depending on who's doing it, is approx -25% damage taken from 100 dmg per hit 15% more than the d.ring omg!

How much if your pld is hit for 200? 20 dmg! 2-6 less than phalanx.

If your PLD is getting hit consistently for 300+, then not even D.ring will save him.

On a side note, how much dmg is saved if something hits your PLD for 50 dmg? 5 dmg, how much dmg is saved if something hits your pld for 50 dmg before phalanx? 22-26, almost 50% this time!

Regardless, trying to convince people phalanx sucks simply because of one aspect is silly, everything equipment in this game thrives on being stacked up apon. Closest comparison is haste. Walahra turban all on it's own is nothing special, wearing that 5% haste won't do anything amazing, the big reason it's popular is the fact you can stack it with other haste items to supremely bump up your equipment haste. Same reason why people go for dusk shoes/gloves, what's 3/4% haste going to change on someone only wearing 1 piece? Nothing, now stack up a whole bunch and start noticing a difference.

[Ahlah]

D ring serves a very different purpose from Phalanx II. All the damage mitigation items (e.g. shadow ring/mantle, D ring etc) have significantly less effect when the tank is blink tanking. Those items were created when PLD/WAR were commonly used.

However like shadow ring, D ring is still much treasured by tank jobs because it helps them to survive tons of magical attack that usually wipe or go through shadows, aga spell, wyrm breath/balst attack etc. I am quite sure a lot of out there will agree that melee hits from endgame mob is easy to survive with Utsuesemi and good support. If your PLD need PhalanxII to hold hate something is seriously wrong, and PhalaxII is very unlikely to save your tank when they get hit by Megaflare or CB.

If you go back to check my first few posts in this thread I already mentioned PhalaxII is a decent spell but it's not essential to have phalanxII to do well in Salvage. There is a simpler solution to get around spending 12k exp and 3 category II merits on a spell that is only beneficial in the first 10-20min of salvage run. If your group cant function without phalanx then consider getting a SCH. 2x PhalanxII cost a lot of mp (84mp every 3 mins), the benefit of phalanxII is even less significant if your WHM casts regen III on MNK tank which also lessens the burden of RDM.

[Vail]

the benefit of phalanxII is even less significant if your WHM casts regen III on MNK tank which also lessens the burden of RDM.

if you as a rdm needs the whm to lessen your burden, you're not playing rdm. It's the rdm's job to lessen the burden on the whm

I don't even know what to say to this the show my level of disappointment, it goes against every teaching I've received and given on playing rdm.

And again, for like the 3rd time: phalanx II is useful for all of salvage, not just the first 10-20minutes

[Ahlah]

RDM burn through their mp pool much quicker than WHM in salvage esp. in the first 10mins of salvage. In most zones I can pull mob on RDM and take zero damage with SS and phalanx up and melee pretty much take care of themselves with hi-pots. It really speeds thing up a lot since RDM only need magic cell to survive the pull as compared to BRD or THF who really need both magic and SJ cell.

PhalanxII = 42mp every 3 mins. If your tanks take 10 hits during the 3 min period total damage absorbed is 22X10 = 220 (assuming you have all the gear to hit phalaxII cap). Cure III = 46mp and cap at 180hp. The difference is not significant enough to warrant 12kxp and 3 category II merit. And if your tanks are good at sharing hate they may not even take any damage at all for the full 3 mins, which means you just waste 84mp on a spell that does nothing to your tanks.

[Kenji]

the benefit of phalanxII is even less significant if your WHM casts regen III on MNK tank which also lessens the burden of RDM.

if you as a rdm needs the whm to lessen your burden, you're not playing rdm. It's the rdm's job to lessen the burden on the whm

I don't even know what to say to this the show my level of disappointment, it goes against every teaching I've received and given on playing rdm.

And again, for like the 3rd time: phalanx II is useful for all of salvage, not just the first 10-20minutes

No one is saying Phalanx II is bad. If it's all you have, go for it. They're just saying it's better for the SCH/RDM to cast it.

Phalanx II(42mp) x6 people = 252mp
Phalanx I (21mp) w/ Accession(hitting 6 people) = 38mp-ish?

For giggles, 3 casts hits everyone in your alliance. 3 charges take 3 minutes to come back up, meaning you can prevent more damage with SCH/RDM via Phalanx I, then you ever can with Phalanx II (why hello thar AoE).

Granted, your SCH may want to spend their charges on something else. So, bring another SCH!

[Charismatic]

Uh.
I said Salvage group, that's usually 6-10 people.

An Endgame LS is usually around 18-24ish(maybe more)... you do the math Mr. "something I pulled out of my ass"

Sounds like you have a small LS. Also sounds like you have a problem. So you make due with your small numbers and inability to recruit, while the rest of FFXI has someone who has SCH leveled.

What ppl aren't understanding, the opportunity cost (availability of sch/smn, prevalence of /nin tanking, # of upgrades till it is worthwhile versus strength of other rdm cat2 spells) of phalanxII is what detracts from it, not the actual spell itself.

This, people. We'll take this nice and simple: An RDM going for Phalanx II, has to give up something else. It has to give a potent Slow, or paralyze II, etc.

Giving a tank Phalanx is nice.

Giving a tank phalanx while debuffing the mob with slow II, para II, Bio 3, etc. is even better.

Sounds like your server has a lot more Scholars than any other...

[Vail]

For giggles, 3 casts hits everyone in your alliance. 3 charges take 3 minutes to come back up, meaning you can prevent more damage with SCH/RDM via Phalanx I, then you ever can with Phalanx II (why hello thar AoE).

Granted, your SCH may want to spend their charges on something else. So, bring another SCH!

SCH even with phalanx cannot give haste or refresh, doesn't enfeeble as well, and doesn't have convert.

It's a pretty big trade off just for a stronger phalanx, the point of rdm having phalanx II isn't that it's the strongest it's that they get it with their total package of tricks. The fact that a rdm can bring all it's normal tools to the table and add in phalanx (even if it's weaker)

and comparing MP you save vs damage taken isn't proper in phalanx context. Preventing damage is always better then curing damage, and the MP saved isn't the rdm's alone it's all the healer's MP saved: That's a pretty big deal because it's other jobs that can't keep up to rdm's MP. If you're worried about keeping your MP up on rdm you're doing something very wrong cause unless you're bombing cure IV(you're tanks are getting hit more then you think they are) or nuking all over the place(wtf rdm nuking? GTFO), most of rdm's main spells are under 45mp. It's a rdm's primary job to keep others MP up (through refresh and through covering other jobs roles) if people have to worry about keeping the RDM's MP up, you've failed as a rdm. Period.

there is no other way to think about it

[Virtuous Saint]

RDM burn through their mp pool much quicker than WHM in salvage esp. in the first 10mins of salvage. In most zones I can pull mob on RDM and take zero damage with SS and phalanx up and melee pretty much take care of themselves with hi-pots. It really speeds thing up a lot since RDM only need magic cell to survive the pull as compared to BRD or THF who really need both magic and SJ cell.

PhalanxII = 42mp every 3 mins. If your tanks take 10 hits during the 3 min period total damage absorbed is 22X10 = 220 (assuming you have all the gear to hit phalaxII cap). Cure III = 46mp and cap at 180hp. The difference is not significant enough to warrant 12kxp and 3 category II merit. And if your tanks are good at sharing hate they may not even take any damage at all for the full 3 mins, which means you just waste 84mp on a spell that does nothing to your tanks.

if a tank takes only 10hits in 3min, he went afk for 2min 30sec. I feel bad for you

edit: read more of your posts, you are a fucking moron.

[Kenji]

For giggles, 3 casts hits everyone in your alliance. 3 charges take 3 minutes to come back up, meaning you can prevent more damage with SCH/RDM via Phalanx I, then you ever can with Phalanx II (why hello thar AoE).

Granted, your SCH may want to spend their charges on something else. So, bring another SCH!

SCH even with phalanx cannot give haste or refresh, doesn't enfeeble as well, and doesn't have convert.

It's a pretty big trade off just for a stronger phalanx, the point of rdm having phalanx II isn't that it's the strongest it's that they get it with their total package of tricks. The fact that a rdm can bring all it's normal tools to the table and add in phalanx (even if it's weaker)

and comparing MP you save vs damage taken isn't proper in phalanx context. Preventing damage is always better then curing damage, and the MP saved isn't the rdm's alone it's all the healer's MP saved: That's a pretty big deal because it's other jobs that can't keep up to rdm's MP. If you're worried about keeping your MP up on rdm you're doing something very wrong cause unless you're bombing cure IV(you're tanks are getting hit more then you think they are) or nuking all over the place(wtf rdm nuking? GTFO), most of rdm's main spells are under 45mp. It's a rdm's primary job to keep others MP up (through refresh and through covering other jobs roles) if people have to worry about keeping the RDM's MP up, you've failed as a rdm. Period.

there is no other way to think about it

You're proving my point. RDM's should spend their merits on debuffs like para II, slow II, Bio 3, etc. Phalanx II isn't as needed as those others. Let the SCH handle Phalanx. Let the RDM handle debuffs and haste.

Everyone's happy.

[Vail]

RDM's should spend their merits on debuffs like para II

a spell that most regard as random, barely (if any) better then Paralyze I, for x6 the MP, good game. A spell that unlike slow does not have a set duration and can wear off at any moment and require repeated casting.

slow II

Won't argue against slow II, but you don't cast it on everything, Slow I is still potent and 1/3rd the cost. Bosses in salvage yeah by all means use Slow II

Bio 3

use Dia in salvage, if you think Bio III's dot and lowered enemy attack (lol, that's like thinking player defense does anything). Bio III is a rdm soloist spell for 100% land rate dot, nothing more.

etc.

Dia III? read above, atleast it'llhelp more then bio III in salvage. Only other "etc" spell would be... Blind II (no comment)

Phalanx II isn't as needed as those others.

Only Slow II is argueably more needed, every other rdm spell is even more situtational then phalanx II ever would be.

Let the SCH handle Phalanx. Let the RDM handle debuffs and haste.

Atm I'm the closest in my salvage group to even having SCH75, and even then I'll be on rdm mostly because the others who can play rdm are well: not as good as me. Regardless I'll have phalanx on my rdm cause we're not getting from anyone else. It's gonna be coming from me rather I'm on rdm or on sch. So deal with the hands you got.