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Thread: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    TSwiftie
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    Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    [Since this post was made, I've done further testing and posted the data. This can be found on page 3. Most of the data here has been updated as of 6/18.]

    For the last couple of weeks I've been working on a project to map out Slow/Hojo/Slow II. My account was hacked earlier, and I won't be able to finish these tests. I'm going to post all the information I have because I think some of it is important, even though it is incomplete.

    Slow 1 appears to follow a simple equation:

    Slow % = (150 + dMNDx2)/1024

    dMND = Caster's MND - Target's MND

    This equation holds true for all dMND >= 0.
    This equation caps at 300/1024, or dMND = 75. (~29.3% Slow Cap) This means after your MND is 75 higher than the mob's MND, extra MND only adds to accuracy and not to slow potency.
    There is no apparant penalty for casting slow on a higher level monster.
    Not once during my tests did a resist ever effect the potency of slow%. Resists only affect the duration of slow. A duration of 0 seconds results in a "resist."


    Hojo: Ichi has a static slow% of 150/1024(~14.6%). This does not change /w any stat of your own or the target's. Casting Hojo: Ichi on bees outside gustaberg, easy preys, decent challanges, toughs, and ITs resulted in no change of slow% potency. As with Slow, potency was never changed and resists only affected duration. A full duration Hojo: Ichi is 5 minutes.

    Hojo: Ni has a static slow% of 200/1024(~19.5%). As with Hojo: Ichi this does not change with any variables. The unresisted duration is 5 minutes.

    Slow II appears to follow this equation:

    y=Merits in Slow II
    dMND = (Casters MND - Target's MND)

    While dMND >= 0:
    Slow II% = ([230] + [y * 10] + [floor(dMND * 1.6)])/1024
    Slow II% cap @ (350+[y*10])/1024
    dMND cap @ +75 MND

    Slow II% is capped at:
    1 Merit: 360/1024 (~35.1%)
    2 Merits: 370/1024 (~36.1%)
    3 Merits: 380/1024 (~37.1%)
    4 Merits: 390/1024 (~38.09%)
    5 Merits: 400/1024 (~39.06%)

    When testing the cap /w Fraps and counting frames, there appears to be no change in potency /w 1 and 2 merits into Slow II. When testing Slow II /w 3 merits there was a clear change in cap. When testing Slow II /w 5 merits, there was again a clear change in cap.

    Unfortunately there is some stuff I was unable to finish testing. I hope this information leads to more testing and a better understand of Slow II/Para II merits. Esp with the upcoming changes.

  2. #2

    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    So adding more Slow II merits simply means you need less MND gear to reach cap (depending on mob)? Thinking ahead for the RDM cat 2 merits. I'd LOVE to see Para/Para II testing, it's always just seemed "random" to me, even though mnd gear definately shows a difference.

  3. #3
    Electric Six groupie
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Do you think we could expect the same results from Paralyze II? That being there is already a said "cap" rate for paralyze II with any number of merits?

    Well, not going to bother with additional merits into Slow2 in the future, now. Thanks for this information, Kirschy!

  4. #4
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    I say we leave this thread to Slow II. Para II is random enough as is.

  5. #5
    Melee Summoner
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Great work Kirschy!

    I had a question in regards to this while we're on topic:

    Each Merit in Slow II increases the base level of slow attributed to the mob by 1% or more? The description seems to imply this, but in some of the more recent threads people have been calculating new Slow II caps of something like 45% or so with the oncoming merit changes, which you seem to be proving cannot happen. But from what these others have been doing, did I miss something about the upgrades? Are the upgrades 3% additions to the base or something? I'm confused and wondering if you or anyone clarify this for me.

  6. #6
    TSwiftie
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Unfortantly I wasn't able to get around to testing the potency merits precisely. I'm hoping that this information will lead to further testing by others. As for people that are spitting out numbers like 45%, I think it is just a common misconception. I have seen people who still claim that +Elegy instruments add to the potency of Carnage Elegy which is easily proven false. If someone is able to provide good data that shows Slow II being a higher potency than 36.1% I think it would be welcomed as it would be a step closer to understanding it better. Unfortantly I believe it to be a simple equation with a cap.

  7. #7
    RIDE ARMOR
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    stop being emo kir! you will get it back!

  8. #8
    Everybody's Favourite Nobody
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Its a good thing I didn't switch to Geico or else I'd never have known this

  9. #9
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Going by your formulas I noticed that for every 5 MND the caster has over the target's MND, there is an estimated 1% increase in Slow II potency. I think if merits increase potency by 1, could that potency very well just equates to 5 MND per upgrade within the bounds of this hypothesized cap? This is just speculation but it seems to make sense that SE would design it like this.

  10. #10
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    I'm pretty sure 36.1% is the cap, and it's possible(probable) the cap is going to remain that way, although I hope not. The results from releena's tests a few years back showed much of the same thing that you have displayed here, but there's much more precise numbers and a formula here which is awesome. I wasn't necessarily "spitting out" a number such as 45%, what I am hoping for was that the cap of 36% was actually increased when Slow II was introduced (because it would be nearly impossible to tell if they had had the cap at 36.1% before the slow II spell). I do not believe the spell has a current cap higher than 36.1%, and even mentioned that as it stands the cap to slow II from potency was ~37%, which is what is stated here. I'm sorry if that was misinterpreted. If the spell itself remains consistently to have a cap of 36.1%, which I dread might be the case, then the only thing additional merits into the spell will give you is the benefit of increased accuracy, because as it is you can reach 36.1% (if somewhat difficultly) on many mobs in the game as it is.

    What my theory was based on was that each merit into slow increased the base potency of the spell by around 3%. Right now the spell definitely caps out at ~36.1%. It wasn't exactly a shot in the dark, but a consideration that the cap itself could be increased if along the same lines of adding base potency to the spell itself, they would increase the hard cap as well. But it's SE, and they aren't likely to do that, however much sense it would make. This was also theoretical, and I plan to test this at increments of level 4 and 5 as I get them.

    You don't necessarily need less mind to reach the cap as you gain in potency from merits, because the cap itself is almost impossible to reach when you consider mobs outside of exp range. You do gain more potency from MND, but as you reach the cap the increments are less beneficial. On HNM mobs, your MND is going to be much closer to the targets MND than on something like a mamool, so you shouldn't consider that you need less.

    Also, awesome info as always! And I'm really sorry to hear that your character was stolen, it's been happening to people I've heard of or know too often recently. Best wishes to you with that.

  11. #11
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    When I did the numbers on Slow II - 1 Merit, I had a cap of 33%. I did trials of Slow vs Slow II on the same exact mobs, and had a difference of 3% across the board for the same MND. Trials were done on a Ronafore bunny, a Qufim Crab, a Wajoam Colibri and a Boyadha EM crab.

    When I tested Slow II - 2 merits I didn't get quite the 6% increase on everything, but the cap still came out between 35-36%, and not sure the variation was anything but random error. Been too lazy to test 3 Merits, but I guess I'll have to now before the new levels come in.

    There is definitely a cap difference between 1 and 2 merits on Slow II though...

  12. #12
    I Have The Clap Again
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Thx Kir. Now tell us the key to AV.

  13. #13
    Yoshi P
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    I'm confused. I thought Hojo: Ni overrode slow, but it's considerably weaker version. Am I reading it wrong is or is Hojo a waste if you have a decent RDM with a good mind build on just Slow?

  14. #14

    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    I know this thread is supposed to be about Slow, but I just wanted to say it sucks to hear you lost your account, and I hope you get it back.

  15. #15

    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Quote Originally Posted by TacoTaru
    I'm confused. I thought Hojo: Ni overrode slow, but it's considerably weaker version. Am I reading it wrong is or is Hojo a waste if you have a decent RDM with a good mind build on just Slow?
    yeah Hojo: Ni is weaker then tier slow I if the caster has a decent mind build. HNMs with subpar mages though Hojo: Ni's static effect is always nice.

  16. #16
    Ridill
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    A while ago someone posted a chart, I wish I could find the original post, but it took long enough to find this...

    [attachment=0:1rqntued]slowgraph.jpg[/attachment:1rqntued]

    According to this, it seems that Slow II caps around +80MND over the target, and each merit adds about 3%.

    This test also shows that slow II with 3 merits caps around 37%.

    Not sure if they are based off of the same data or not.

  17. #17
    Relic Weapons
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Just wondering seeing all this talk about different slow's, does anyone know the % of slow given by Filamented Hold (blu slow), and if its static or a way to change the value?

  18. #18
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Quote Originally Posted by transmit
    Just wondering seeing all this talk about different slow's, does anyone know the % of slow given by Filamented Hold (blu slow), and if its static or a way to change the value?
    This test shows Filamented hold to be 25-26% slow, not exact but probably very close.

  19. #19
    Fake Numbers
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    Quote Originally Posted by Septimus
    A while ago someone posted a chart, I wish I could find the original post, but it took long enough to find this...

    [attachment=0:2qogdo1g]slowgraph.jpg[/attachment:2qogdo1g]

    According to this, it seems that Slow II caps around +80MND over the target, and each merit adds about 3%.

    This test also shows that slow II with 3 merits caps around 37%.

    Not sure if they are based off of the same data or not.
    Yay! I love when my Slow graph keeps popping up.

    Anyway, the data were not mine...I simply graphed the raw data which originally came from here, but the link looks like it's broken, so sadly I'm not sure where the data came from anymore. Regardless, I still have the raw data in an Excel file if anyone is interested. Again, not my raw data, I just graphed someone else's.

    But yes, the mindier your RDM is, the better your Slow II will be. I cast Slow II with a wand and Errant body for this reason.

    Also, Abs-MND from /DRK works great to this end...not only do you boost your own MND, but you lower your target's MND, which effectively doubles the effect when casting slow since the comparison is from the caster's augmented MND against the target's reduced MND.

  20. #20
    Fake Numbers
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    Re: Slow, Hojo, and Slow II

    I updated the slow graph to include all forms of slow, including Hojo and BLU spells. The graph is getting a little crowded, but you can at least get a good idea of how much MND a RDM will need over the target in order to outdo any other slows in your alliance.

    http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1828/slowbb4.jpg

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