Adjustments to Einherjar (06/02/2008)

[Ashira]

You'll have to do 9 more to get to the next Odin, but say someone only does 3 instead of all 9.

Next Odin, the guy with all 9 starts it, and the guy with only 3 joins in. All feathers get wiped, and everyone starts fresh again.

Rinse, repeat. Nobody misses an Odin, or gets extra Odins.

if there's a 3 mule system, the guy would not be able to go in with all 3 mules, he can only go in with 1 mule every 3 cycles the LS enters.

The basic point is, someone who only attends 3 runs per Odin is not getting any less cracks at him than someone who attends 9 runs per Odin. Especially in a 3 mule system where everyone (except the mules) are attending only 3 runs per Odin.

So I don't see where the "2 extra odins" for non-slackers come from, if a "slacker" is defined as someone who attends only 3 runs per Odin fight they participate in.

Although you don't even need 3 mules if you just have 1 mule that never actually enters, and only breaks the lamp.

Unless that's changed, which is likely.

[layoneil]

The basic point is, someone who only attends 3 runs per Odin is not getting any less cracks at him than someone who attends 9 runs per Odin. Especially in a 3 mule system where everyone (except the mules) are attending only 3 runs per Odin.

So I don't see where the "2 extra odins" for non-slackers come from, if a "slacker" is defined as someone who attends only 3 runs per Odin fight they participate in.

Although you don't even need 3 mules if you just have 1 mule that never actually enters, and only breaks the lamp.

a slacker is defined as someone who attends less winning clears as the character starting the chamber. it's stupid to define a slacker as someone who attends only 3 runs per Odin fight when they do 3 Odins every 9 runs.

[shieldsofwindurst]

The basic point is, someone who only attends 3 runs per Odin is not getting any less cracks at him than someone who attends 9 runs per Odin. Especially in a 3 mule system where everyone (except the mules) are attending only 3 runs per Odin.

So I don't see where the "2 extra odins" for non-slackers come from, if a "slacker" is defined as someone who attends only 3 runs per Odin fight they participate in.

Although you don't even need 3 mules if you just have 1 mule that never actually enters, and only breaks the lamp.

a slacker is defined as someone who attends less winning clears as the character starting the chamber. it's stupid to define a slacker as someone who attends only 3 runs per Odin fight when they do 3 Odins every 9 runs.

Ok, this is very simple... if we first assume:
1. An LS gets whatever setup is required to do Odin every 4 runs (3 mules, 1 mule that doesn't enter, w/e works).
2. All runs are successful.
3. "Slackers" only attend 1 out of every 3 non-odin runs.

Then from that point on, the sequence of runs will be (varying only on the order of the tier1-3s):
1. Tier 1
2. Tier 2
3. Tier 3
4. Odin
5. Tier 1
6. Tier 2
7. Tier 3
8. Odin
9. Tier 1
10. Tier 2
11. Tier 3
12. Odin
.... and repeat.

The point is, given these assumptions, a "slacker" who only attends 1/3 of the runs will not be able to attend Odin runs on run #4 or run #8, because they do not yet have 3 feathers at that point. They in fact will not be able attend an Odin run until run 12, at which point they will have to reacquire 3 feathers, which again based on our attendance assumptions, will take them at least 10 more runs. That means that people that are not slackers will in fact attend, on average, 3 Odin runs to every 1 Odin run the slackers attend. And remember, this is a vast improvement to those people that attend *0* limbus chip runs and still attend Ultima/Omega. Therefore, this system rewards hardcore players while still allowing a reasonably low threshold to those people who are either slackers or have RL commitments, as they can show up on any tier 1-3 run they so wish/are able to.

Now, it is true that until assumption 1 is true (i.e. the 3 mules have been decked out with 9 feathers) there will be a chance for a slacker who has only attended 3 runs to go to an Odin fight. This is true the first time only, and the way to deal with this is simple: the LS leaders should simply not allow them to lot, plain & simple. Thus for this first abberation (which may not even be their fault) the human element will compensate, and all subsequent trips to Odin result in a very simple equation of "put in your time and you can go".

[Kaylia]

^
That's what I said a few pages ago. A simple rule like "70% attendance" requirement to get loot would get ride of that kind of leech.

[Kenji]

So, bottom line: If your LS sucks in the leadership department, you might have slackers. If your leaders are kick ass, you'll have no slackers getting loot.

Case closed?

Now can we talk about all the Valkyrie Forks we're gonna get?

[Khamsin]

^
That's what I said a few pages ago. A simple rule like "70% attendance" requirement to get loot would get ride of that kind of leech.

I don't see how any special rules are needed. Afterall, everyone who joins an Odin fight will have participated in 3 runs prior to it, slackers and non-slackers alike. If it takes you 3 cycles to get your 3 runs to qualify for Odin, you've earned a shot at the next Odin (having been excluded from the last two) as much as anyone else who did their 3 runs immediately prior to it. Bottom line is, participating in 3 runs earns you a crack at Odin. Why stipulate that all 3 runs have to be back-to-back and immediately prior to your next Odin?

[Kaylia]

I don't see how any special rules are needed. Afterall, everyone who joins an Odin fight will have participated in 3 runs prior to it, slackers and non-slackers alike. If it takes you 3 cycles to get your 3 runs to qualify for Odin, you've earned a shot at the next Odin (having been excluded from the last two) as much as anyone else who did their 3 runs immediately prior to it. Bottom line is, participating in 3 runs earns you a crack at Odin. Why stipulate that all 3 runs have to be back-to-back and immediately prior to your next Odin?

I wont hand e.body to someone who show up 3 times over 2 months and come to this one odin fight. This kind of player probably won't come back after i they win anything.
It's important to reward player who show some sort of dedication to the linkshell/group, otherwise, you end up with a bunch of item rotting on characters who quit after getting their item.

[Lordender]

I don't see why people are saying "oh noes slackers will get loot from odin now". Only shitty leaders give out loot to people that clearly doesn't deserve it. If there is an idiot/slacker who made little effort to actually show up for clears and had to get someone else to log them on for wins i'd laugh @ them expecting odin drops.

[Aurara]

I don't see why people are saying "oh noes slackers will get loot from odin now". Only shitty leaders give out loot to people that clearly doesn't deserve it. If there is an idiot/slacker who made little effort to actually show up for clears and had to get someone else to log them on for wins i'd laugh @ them expecting odin drops.

This is how 95% of ifrit is. They want their shit spoon-fed to them without doing any work.

[layoneil]

I wont hand e.body to someone who show up 3 times over 2 months and come to this one odin fight. This kind of player probably won't come back after i they win anything.
It's important to reward player who show some sort of dedication to the linkshell/group, otherwise, you end up with a bunch of item rotting on characters who quit after getting their item.

if you're going to take that stance, why let any of those people attend any of your events in the first place?

[Havok]

There's no other fodder available to fill the linkshell with. This is how Ifrit server works haha

[shieldsofwindurst]

^
That's what I said a few pages ago. A simple rule like "70% attendance" requirement to get loot would get ride of that kind of leech.

I don't see how any special rules are needed. Afterall, everyone who joins an Odin fight will have participated in 3 runs prior to it, slackers and non-slackers alike. If it takes you 3 cycles to get your 3 runs to qualify for Odin, you've earned a shot at the next Odin (having been excluded from the last two) as much as anyone else who did their 3 runs immediately prior to it. Bottom line is, participating in 3 runs earns you a crack at Odin. Why stipulate that all 3 runs have to be back-to-back and immediately prior to your next Odin?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I agree that if you put in your 3 runs, you get a shot at Odin. My point is simply that in the setup phase of a given shell, which (should) only happen once, where people are doing 9 consecutive non-Odin runs so that they can get their mule or mules 9 feathers, so that they can do Odin every 4th run, there is potential during this phase only for slackers with 3 feathers getting to attend Odin while the rest of the shell has 9 feathers. Therefore, during this setup phase only, there should be special rules to ensure that someone that has not attended most/all of the farming runs doesn't get to lot on the best gear from the subsequent Odin fight.

However, following this setup phase, where the LS moves into the Odin-farming phase (fighting him every 4 runs), there's no reason for special rules because everyone has a 3 feather threshold to enter the fight. Once an LS is in this Odin-farming phase, then I agree with your statement-participation in 3 tier 1-3 runs, regardless of which Odin run they are farmed for, should result in full rights to drops from whichever Odin run said person actually attends (other LS rules notwithstanding).

[Kaylia]

if you're going to take that stance, why let any of those people attend any of your events in the first place?

There's no other fodder available to fill the linkshell with. This is how Ifrit server works haha

It's pretty much like Havok wrote.

Server imploded long time ago from drama, and gathering over 20 decent players who wants to work together is an impossible task. If you want to do event like Einherjar that require over 20, you will have to do some concession, and accept the risk that people are gonna fuck you over in the end. That's why I said you need additional rules to prevent this.

On the bright side, kicking people from Einherjar shell will be easier than ever now. I can live with a 2 weeks engagements....5-10 weeks was way too long.

[seiji]

Jesus fucking H. Christ.

I'm all for criticizing Squenix and its poor design decisions. But this is, like, one of the best announcements of the fucking year so far.

Who in their fucking right mind would complain about this?

"Man, Einherjar isn't a organizational nightmare anymore? Fuck that shit, I quit!"

Take your delusions of grandeur and get the fuck out, please.

People who fap at night to their characters in kings gear who continue to camp them without the need of the gear because they feel only they deserve them and no one else.

this.

almost, its my entire reasoning for camping the 3 kings in a nutshell, for that matter; khimaira and cerberus too not because I need anything or anyone in my LS needs, but to stop other people from getting

SELFISH B......!

I don't care of any drops but wish to fight king once but can't because of selfish asshole that keep bot claiming them.
I don' even care if we wipe like noobs and every other endgamels point me as the big noob of the server, i just want to fight 'em

I (not alone) killed the too weak little brothers from limbus/KS99, now i'd like to try on the true one

This is part of a game I pay as much as you, so i think i could try everything in!

[Asdra]

Jesus fucking H. Christ.

I'm all for criticizing Squenix and its poor design decisions. But this is, like, one of the best announcements of the fucking year so far.

Who in their fucking right mind would complain about this?

"Man, Einherjar isn't a organizational nightmare anymore? Fuck that shit, I quit!"

Take your delusions of grandeur and get the fuck out, please.

People who fap at night to their characters in kings gear who continue to camp them without the need of the gear because they feel only they deserve them and no one else.

this.

almost, its my entire reasoning for camping the 3 kings in a nutshell, for that matter; khimaira and cerberus too not because I need anything or anyone in my LS needs, but to stop other people from getting

SELFISH B......!

I don't care of any drops but wish to fight king once but can't because of selfish asshole that keep bot claiming them.
I don' even care if we wipe like noobs and every other endgamels point me as the big noob of the server, i just want to fight 'em

I (not alone) killed the too weak little brothers from limbus/KS99, now i'd like to try on the true one

This is part of a game I pay as much as you, so i think i could try everything in!

Just because you pay the same 12.95 doesn't make you entitled to fight these mobs. If you were, SE would have made them pop NMs. Bots don't guarentee claim, they just give a big advantage, and if you try enough you will eventually get some claims, bots or not. You may not get as many claims as you want, and there may even be months between claims, but thats how the game is designed.

[MaachaQ]

Jesus fucking H. Christ.

I'm all for criticizing Squenix and its poor design decisions. But this is, like, one of the best announcements of the fucking year so far.

Who in their fucking right mind would complain about this?

"Man, Einherjar isn't a organizational nightmare anymore? Fuck that shit, I quit!"

Take your delusions of grandeur and get the fuck out, please.

People who fap at night to their characters in kings gear who continue to camp them without the need of the gear because they feel only they deserve them and no one else.

this.

almost, its my entire reasoning for camping the 3 kings in a nutshell, for that matter; khimaira and cerberus too not because I need anything or anyone in my LS needs, but to stop other people from getting

SELFISH B......!

I don't care of any drops but wish to fight king once but can't because of selfish asshole that keep bot claiming them.
I don' even care if we wipe like noobs and every other endgamels point me as the big noob of the server, i just want to fight 'em

I (not alone) killed the too weak little brothers from limbus/KS99, now i'd like to try on the true one

This is part of a game I pay as much as you, so i think i could try everything in!

Very well said. Pretty much exactly how I feel. I'd love to have some Kings gear just because I collect gear, I don't know I would ever use it except to show off. What I like more is the fun of the fight.

My LS recently got to kill the NQ Adamantoise for 6 days in a row, because his window was almost exactly the same as Fafnir/Nidhogg. But guess what, on the last night, when it would be 100% Aspi, ALL the bots show up. Fafnir pops early, so the bots have almost an hour to get to VoS before Aspi pops... We had over 100 ppl in that zone, for a fucking turtle! NQ Adamantoise is the only "king" I've even killed... the one time we claimed Fafnir a BST pet attacked from the rear foot and flailed him >< ppl said they got Ridill too...

Just because you pay the same 12.95 doesn't make you entitled to fight these mobs. If you were, SE would have made them pop NMs. Bots don't guarentee claim, they just give a big advantage, and if you try enough you will eventually get some claims, bots or not. You may not get as many claims as you want, and there may even be months between claims, but thats how the game is designed.

Wow, just wow... way to fuck ppl over just to make your e-penis bigger. I really hope SE makes all the kings into pop mobs to kill off bots once and for all. Nothing has made ppl quit this game more than the "battle of the bots" that are kings... many good ppl, skilled players, who just couldn't stand this attitude anymore. It's a GAME! We're supposed to be playing it to HAVE FUN, not to keep other ppl from having fun.

[Seraphus]

Jesus fucking H. Christ.

I'm all for criticizing Squenix and its poor design decisions. But this is, like, one of the best announcements of the fucking year so far.

Who in their fucking right mind would complain about this?

"Man, Einherjar isn't a organizational nightmare anymore? Fuck that shit, I quit!"

Take your delusions of grandeur and get the fuck out, please.

People who fap at night to their characters in kings gear who continue to camp them without the need of the gear because they feel only they deserve them and no one else.

this.

almost, its my entire reasoning for camping the 3 kings in a nutshell, for that matter; khimaira and cerberus too not because I need anything or anyone in my LS needs, but to stop other people from getting

SELFISH B......!

I don't care of any drops but wish to fight king once but can't because of selfish asshole that keep bot claiming them.
I don' even care if we wipe like noobs and every other endgamels point me as the big noob of the server, i just want to fight 'em

I (not alone) killed the too weak little brothers from limbus/KS99, now i'd like to try on the true one

This is part of a game I pay as much as you, so i think i could try everything in!

Very well said. Pretty much exactly how I feel. I'd love to have some Kings gear just because I collect gear, I don't know I would ever use it except to show off. What I like more is the fun of the fight.

My LS recently got to kill the NQ Adamantoise for 6 days in a row, because his window was almost exactly the same as Fafnir/Nidhogg. But guess what, on the last night, when it would be 100% Aspi, ALL the bots show up. Fafnir pops early, so the bots have almost an hour to get to VoS before Aspi pops... We had over 100 ppl in that zone, for a fucking turtle! NQ Adamantoise is the only "king" I've even killed... the one time we claimed Fafnir a BST pet attacked from the rear foot and flailed him >< ppl said they got Ridill too...

Just because you pay the same 12.95 doesn't make you entitled to fight these mobs. If you were, SE would have made them pop NMs. Bots don't guarentee claim, they just give a big advantage, and if you try enough you will eventually get some claims, bots or not. You may not get as many claims as you want, and there may even be months between claims, but thats how the game is designed.

Wow, just wow... way to fuck ppl over just to make your e-penis bigger. I really hope SE makes all the kings into pop mobs to kill off bots once and for all. Nothing has made ppl quit this game more than the "battle of the bots" that are kings... many good ppl, skilled players, who just couldn't stand this attitude anymore. It's a GAME! We're supposed to be playing it to HAVE FUN, not to keep other ppl from having fun.

For the bolded part, as awesome as it would be for SE to make kings into pop items, It would be an awesome idea except for the fact that the game would be flooded with like 5x as much of every item as before.

For the italicized part, good god I hear ya there...

[Beliash]

But guess what, on the last night, when it would be 100% Aspi

I see a lot of whining about not being able to get kings because of bots, but if you don't know how kings work yet then you obviously haven't been at kings long enough. You can't expect to just turn up and claim everything, I've been in a 3 kings LS for over three years now, and I can honestly say that I've seen so many new shells turn up for a couple weeks, not get claim, call everyone bots and leave never to be seen again. King camping requires a lot of patience, eventually you'll claim some kings.

[seiji]

back to einherjar.

It's easy to prevent 4run odin, they just need to add a "super feather" key item that only the lamp trader obtain, and the 9 super feather needed to open odin chamber

[ringthree]

But guess what, on the last night, when it would be 100% Aspi

I see a lot of whining about not being able to get kings because of bots, but if you don't know how kings work yet then you obviously haven't been at kings long enough. You can't expect to just turn up and claim everything, I've been in a 3 kings LS for over three years now, and I can honestly say that I've seen so many new shells turn up for a couple weeks, not get claim, call everyone bots and leave never to be seen again. King camping requires a lot of patience, eventually you'll claim some kings.

LOL, completely begs the question.