Every ridill owner is a n00b... including me???

[RKenshin]

With any luck I'll have some time to merit with my usu-samarai soon, but recently I've been getting totally ruked by RL. I'll make sure I compile defensive parses when I do (any suggestions on parsers / settings?)

Probably DP with evasion, parry, counter, anticipate, average damage taken, total taken.

Only problem is that I think DP may still have trouble calculating counter? Can anyone confirm whether it does or not, and whether to use counter or adjusted counter? I never remember.

[Kirschy]

Same as Ruke. DP /w the all of the filters off. Last I used it, Counters still weren't be recorded properly. I think the code for counters was changed recently, so it's probably a quick fix for the people who work on it still.

[aurik]

DP isn't working for me for some reason. Running my custom parser atm, but it's not really designed to capture defensive statistics. Anyway, it's reporting approx a 15% evade rate @ Nyzul Mamools, which I think is closer to 18-20% since it doesn't calculate it quite right. Short parse, though, and we have a paladin using flash periodically.

[Cream Soda]

If your DP isn't working you probably haven't updated your memlocks from the last update. Can find the new ones in the "Working Parser?" thread on advanced forums should be on the last page or the one before unless its gotten a lot of new posts as of recent.

[RKenshin]

That's a pretty awesome evasion rate for a DD.

Albeit you also have Dodge, I think that SAM and MNK would both be at the same total evasion in full Usukane? I need to finish this damn set already.

[aurik]

I was on samurai, so that was without dodge.

It was a crappy party so it's kinda short, but here's the data:

Hits 28
Critical Hits 1
Special Atks 10
AOE 2
Anticipations 18
Misses 11
Parries 1

So 11 evades of 11+18+1+1+28 "normal attack" events, 11 / 59 = 18.6%

Keep in mind that we had a Paladin casting flash periodically, so it may actually be closer to 15%.

Assuming eva rate isn't at the floor (5%), enhanced Dodge should add about 15% evasion...

[Bozzar]

Had this parse form a Merit PT other night, did the majority of tanking on sam/war. Camp is G.Colibri and other 2 DD's were very decently geared mnk/nin's. Full time seigan and I aim to always pop 3rd eye directly before WS, but there are many cases links needed to be voked and/or getting a large amount of hate via DA or early engage vokeing, ect. Parser is extremly old, Taz logo ( tazzy?) FFXI Parser v 7.1.3, but it seems very accurate. Intresting note also is that this is w/ capped parry on my sam.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...samwar7608.jpg

[LinktheDeme]

Had this parse form a Merit PT other night, did the majority of tanking on sam/war. Camp is G.Colibri and other 2 DD's were very decently geared mnk/nin's. Full time seigan and I aim to always pop 3rd eye directly before WS, but there are many cases links needed to be voked and/or getting a large amount of hate via DA or early engage vokeing, ect. Parser is extremly old, Taz logo ( tazzy?) FFXI Parser v 7.1.3, but it seems very accurate. Intresting note also is that this is w/ capped parry on my sam.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...samwar7608.jpg

Needs WS and TP gear from all members otherwise for all we know you could be pting with brownbelt monks and an amano sam.

[aurik]

I think the point is the defensive stats.

That said, there seems to be a lot of weird things going on in that parse. A few examples:

-All 3 participate in 162 fights, but Tab* makes 2700 attacks total compared to 1600 for Con*
-Despite that, Con* uses 112 weaponskills to Tab*'s 85, and averages 95 dmg to Tab*'s 66. -As well, Tab* has 18% crits to Con*'s 12%.

Is Con* using suckerstance or something?

[Bozzar]

Unfortunately for me, no Amano sam lol, was just polearm w/ 2x brds. I don't generally /check other PT members that are brought in by friends, unless something is horribly wrong. Aurik you are correct in your assumptions tho lol, mnk A did seem to hold TP often enough for me to complain to my brd about it, and mnk B was indeed using kick stance. Perhaps he was testing it idk, either way it got me some high numbers to analyze defensive stats of my sam tanking.

[yrpaine]

Just reading through all this, kinda same crap different day with the /sam crowd.

I was gunna post about the parsing, but Kirschy beat me.

I consider overall ease of party. Counting damage taken, mp used and such, along with considering most camps the max # of mobs you can kill b4 running out of mobs/losing chain, /sam just seems to make things harder. If you have 1 guy tryin to epeen /sam while others are /nin, that 1 guy is going to be an mp sponge unless he is in seigan mode 100% and lucky for several hours straight.

Way too many ppl that will read this thread and think /sam is the uber cuz of dmg you can deal, without considering a majority of the other variables, and 1) will not have the proper gear 2) will use hassao when their parses aren't keeping up, and then be an mp sponge when tryin to show off.

when 1 person becomes an mp sponge, the rdm will have a difficult time keeping hastes up and that will hurt the party.

3 well geared /nin will still clear all the mobs out of a camp and get the same chain with less effort and more reliability. you might outparse one of them in damage if you /sam, but there are more variables to a long term merit party than 1 person's e-peen dmg parse.

obviously ppl with insane gear and skill can pull off almost anything. most ppl can't, but will try when they read these threads and fail horribly.

[Kayos]

Clearly it is about doing the most damage possible without having to worry about silly things such as "mp" whatever that is.

[yrpaine]

^ ya spoken like a tru pld (with 2 d-rings. ;D)

[Max™]

It isn't just about maximum damage, for some it is a comfort thing, I don't feel as "safe" with /Nin because I know I can't shift gears into "OMG U DIE NAO!" mode if needed, or "Oh crap, time to hold off some" mode.

Put me, with the gear and merits I have now, in a random pickup group with average DD's... have me /Nin, I'm going to suck up a lot of MP... why?

I'm going to wind up eating more than 6 swings between Ichi and Ni recasts usually, and as a War... that's all ya get, you're hoping that your party members can turn it to recast.

So then I have to adjust my play style to them, holding back til I'm sure someone will be able to turn it after I WS, or trying to kill it, or only have a few hits left after I WS.

Some people feel like they can let go easier with /Nin, I haven't been in a top end merit as /Nin, to be fair, but I've never felt safer with it, since any time where I'm eating multiple consecutive swings/WSes, I know my Third eye won't be interrupted, and will generally be no more than 5-10 seconds away.

If the party is good enough, I can just use Hasso, and Third Eye away WSes like flurry/drub/drive, and things really do die fast enough that it's mp efficient.


I personally first got to experience this during the post 2h buff craziness, when my gear/merits wasn't as good as it is now, but back then, killing faster > healing.

I remember doing a party at the Khimmy camp cause it was the only free spot, War, Drk, Drg, Drg, Brd, Rdm.

Got 3 Imps and 2 Flayers basically at once during a chain, and the Rdm DCed, so we just all went batshit KILL FASTAR mode, lowest one of us got was orange life, that's when I first realised what it was like for all these stupidly decked out melees normally.

[yrpaine]

Put me, with the gear and merits I have now, in a random pickup group with average DD's... have me /Nin.

If the party is good enough, I can just use Hasso,

so you're saying you do better in a good pty than a bad pty? what's new? if you're able to use hassao and not die, you can /nin and know you have 3 shadows up already when you pull hate. trying to compare a pty with crappy dd's when you /nin with a pty with good DD's when you /sam is retarded.

the key is to learn to kick gimpy ass dd's that aren't pulling their weight.

[Max™]

In a party with good DD's, I'd ideally want to spend less time casting Utsu, as it hinders my output, and thus makes me contribute less to the party.

In a party with crappy, or even just average DD's, I feel more able to modulate my output to mesh with the party /Sam, and if I'm still getting a major percentage of facetanking time, I'm more comfortable knowing that though Seigan/TE will flake once in a while and leave me looking at a 20 second timer, the same can happen with Utsu, and I've got little hope getting Ichi up if I'm being wailed on.

Ichi previous fight, swing, double attack, Ni up, the mob and I WS.

Now I've got it's attention, my Ni is down, I probably took damage from the last hit or two of the WS, and assuming Ichi cast is up, I have to sit there grinning and eating the hits, or waste time I could be killing the thing by trying to get Ichi up, and barring a timely flash/stun/head butt, the mob starting a cast, or random parry/eva luck... that isn't something I'd take bets on.

Sometimes you accept pick ups that you regret, sometimes you party with LS mates who are trying to get buffer for their Dyna pulling, barely geared or merited Pld, Thf, etc.

Not being able to see a valid point because of your own prejudices is retarded.

I admit that /Nin has upsides, but also recognize that it isn't automatic no-damage-taken mode, especially with lol225 Eva and a penchant for randomly dropping 2000 Dmg wses.

/Sam has upsides too, and when used right (hint: you HAVE to pay attention), can mitigate damage amazingly well, to the point where /Sam doesn't = MP sponge, unless you're trying to be one, or just don't know what you're working with.

[yrpaine]

/Nin has upsides too, and when used right (hint: you HAVE to pay attention), can mitigate damage amazingly well, to the point where /Nin doesn't = MP sponge, unless you're trying to be one, or just don't know what you're working with.

fixed? seriously the same arguments you have for /sam can be said for /nin. i kinda have the experience playing sam, and i love my sam, i'm not prejudiced against anything except drg and pup.

[Max™]

So, if you agree, why are you arguing again?

Will say though, paying attention don't help you get Ichi up with 225 Eva and a pissed off Nin Mamool trying to eat your face.

[Kaslo]

So, if you agree, why are you arguing again?

Will say though, paying attention don't help you get Ichi up with 225 Eva and a pissed off Nin Mamool trying to eat your face.

Have you ever seen an Elegy'd mob attack, sure it can

[Kayos]

Why would you cast Ichi in an merit party anyway?