New ToAU NMs (Now with 100% more Pandemonium!) pg77

[Max™]

CARBY PULL IT! lol, two Bst's, both put a slime on PW and run like hell, one ahead of the other a bit, he gets out of the room, uses heel, other Bst tries to pull his, if he gets draw in he dies/leaves pet, PW goes for the other pet (do pets get Draw in? I seem to remember them not getting it, but that may have been years ago now) and the Gears link with him.

PW gets outside his Room, Bst leaves the mob, PW kills the Bst, Gears depop, PW says "ah, you tricked me!" and dies.

[Dohorehn]

CARBY PULL IT! lol, two Bst's, both put a slime on PW and run like hell, one ahead of the other a bit, he gets out of the room, uses heel, other Bst tries to pull his, if he gets draw in he dies/leaves pet, PW goes for the other pet (do pets get Draw in? I seem to remember them not getting it, but that may have been years ago now) and the Gears link with him.

PW gets outside his Room, Bst leaves the mob, PW kills the Bst, Gears depop, PW says "ah, you tricked me!" and dies.

careful! this sounds like an 'inane' theory lol. We need to save room for 'the basics' first.

[Toksyuryel]

Doesn't carby pull not work on mobs with shared hate? Like those mob parties in moval and sacrariducts

[Rocl]

CARBY PULL IT! lol, two Bst's, both put a slime on PW and run like hell, one ahead of the other a bit, he gets out of the room, uses heel, other Bst tries to pull his, if he gets draw in he dies/leaves pet, PW goes for the other pet (do pets get Draw in? I seem to remember them not getting it, but that may have been years ago now) and the Gears link with him.

PW gets outside his Room, Bst leaves the mob, PW kills the Bst, Gears depop, PW says "ah, you tricked me!" and dies.

careful! this sounds like an 'inane' theory lol. We need to save room for 'the basics' first.

Are you still butthurt that your idea of taking pictures with it as it summons the gears got deleted? Because like I said it, (or you may have deleted your post in anger before I finished replying) as a serious reply, it was fucking stupid, and as a joke, it was terrible.

Judging by the fact you posted something about it being serious, you're not very bright. We'll never know the full length of it however, since I did delete your posts fairly quickly. Sorry for cleaning the thread of retarded bullshit. And now, since you've gone and quoted his stupid joke post- it has to stay.

[solsovly]

CARBY PULL IT! lol, two Bst's, both put a slime on PW and run like hell, one ahead of the other a bit, he gets out of the room, uses heel, other Bst tries to pull his, if he gets draw in he dies/leaves pet, PW goes for the other pet (do pets get Draw in? I seem to remember them not getting it, but that may have been years ago now) and the Gears link with him.

PW gets outside his Room, Bst leaves the mob, PW kills the Bst, Gears depop, PW says "ah, you tricked me!" and dies.

Pets can get drawn in by mimics.

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

man some people never cease to amaze me. Wasn't there a whole bunch of people QQing in another thread how there is no more challenges in this game blah blah. Now that there is a new difficult NM thats not fucking AV (anyone who tries and compares this to AV should exiled far far away from this forum) people now bitch the other way. i dont even get it.

Thanks for the ls that tried this guy out and lost massive exp for science, this is for you enjoy:

[Arcanesoul]

With regards to pets, it seems smns are the best to take care of the gears.
While slimes are good at taking damage, they can be a pain to charm even with good charm gear. They
may be better on the NM itself, while others take care off the gears out of range. One of the problems with
bst pets is that they have a short attention span once engaged. The rail cannons from multiple gears will make them go all over the place (may even screw up pathing with enough pets + other consequences), and while using "Heel" -> "Fight" to reset hate again will work it may cause other hate problems. Avatars stick to the target they're given and take reduced damage so that's the main bonus for smns. Another point regarding bst pets is that even if they con too-weak to the NM you can still help wear the NM down using them as long as there are a few around (My ls often uses level 40-50 mobs against Gration (lvl75 or something); throw -> run -> charm another...). Would the leeches Aoe atk down move help with the TP moves (assuming it stuck)?
One final thing also about the pets is that although they don't suffer as badly as chars for hitting while running, they suffer from it unless they have movement speed + (i.e. capped Beast Affinity Saber Siravarde maybe of some use).

Also, is there a reason Pandemonium Warden shouldn't have repopped with more lamps when it's health went down? I'm thinking along the lines of Despot which pops after it's place holder is dead. The mechanism is there. Although there is the question, why would SE even use that mechanism for this NM (i.e. kill lamps and warden, repeat x number of times).

Well done to the people who popped it and supported them.

[fndragon]

Wait a second. Lemme put the pieces together.
1) Charmable Slimes (DC to 75) in the room
2) Gears link to each other, but don't link Pandemonium Warden himself.
3) Pandemonium Warden links with gears, but only if an action is taken on the warden himself.
4) Gears lose aggro if their target is outside of the room.

So. Why can't a BST link all of the gears with the slime? And then stand outside of the room so that when the slime dies (and it will), the gears just sit there for 10 seconds while the next charmed mob/pet goes in to distract them.

Probably because the gears will rape the slime in about 5 seconds flat, but still, might be fun in a pinch. And the AoE's the gears have will rape anyone in the nearby vicinity. As for the person above, it's not the warden that's the problem, it seems to be the gear train. Although BST can be useful for soaking up more Discoid damage too.

Edit: Actually, this mechanism of "losing hate outside the room" intrigues me; Can you pull the gears to the edge of the room and have a horde of BLM's in the "does not aggro" section bombard them with spells without fear of repercussion?

[Feielle]

As a BLM and SMN main, I'm a little curious about which may be the most effective jobs for this fight. Do you think Stoneskin rotation would be worth more than the damage on the gears (as BLM)? Any chance you had any SMNs on PW or the gears that could tell me what their BP damage was?

My LS is riddled with BLMs, but mostly of the wal-mart variety (third and fourth jobs) do you need to be uber-merited/geared to dent these things?

[Arcanesoul]

I understand the Warden is not the problem, but I'm just curious whether all the lamps do need to be defeated in order to defeat the Warden (only time will tell). If warden does repop x number of times then perhaps pets could keep the gears busy long enough, but that's all going into the realm of speculation now and there are still other more sensible ideas to cover.

My main point was that I think avatars are better at dealing with the gear train than bst pets are.

[Baelwulf]

Another potential method of having a lot of them brought down quickly would be to use SMN Avatars to blow them up.

Someone goes in and links all the gears either with PD or Invincible.
SMNs(ideally a few of them, 10 I think should be able to do this?) summon their avatars and sic it on a mob near the center.

SMNs use astral flow, use the BP, desummon the avatars that aren't dead, and hightail it out of the room to where they deaggro.

Resummon avatars, go in and repeat.

Yes it would burn a shitton of 2hrs, I'm aware. But it would also get down the gears without a gross amount of death. And if the theory that I hold(gears respawn in half the numbers they did before 8>4>2>1=15 which is 1/2 of 30 which is the # of Lamp dats with 2 models for every lamp), would mean that the second group would be much easier to deal with if you had a handful of tanks with healers as holding groups to spread out some.

[tsola]

Melee, magic, and smn dd all work fine in terms of damage on both the gears and the chariot.

Stoneskin on the melees would help I think, but again, if you get hit with 5 rail cannons at once, stoneskin isn't going to do much.

[MarkM.]

Pets get drawn in just like PCs now. I've popped VV in the B. Tree a few times on bst, stupid f$#@ing drop rates. The first time I tried, I was going to pet pull to the zone to not have to deal with as many adds, but that didnt work, because my pet kept getting drawn in until it died, then the same thing happened to me. Also, the times I've tried to pet pull on things with shared hate, I end up zoning/dying.

[Sabishii]

Hello, first time posting really. It's a shame that they ended up giving up on Pandemonium Warden. But I've got a few theories or ideas that could be discussed for the next people who go at it.

It repopped when you killed it and respawned all the gears that weren't dead. The obvious idea people said were that they should have killed the last gear before they zerged the last of PW's health. Maybe it's a system similar to JoL, where you have to keep killing its pets until it stops it's auto-regen. Maybe it DOES respawn pets after you kill them all, BUT that might not be a bad thing. You might have to keep killing these pets until it stops or changes or something.

Maybe there's a way to reduce rail cannon damage, nuking with a proper element or something, perhaps it could start losing gears, so that it turns to a fan AoE then to a single target blinkable attack. Could Rail cannon be thunder elemental based? Barthunder could then be used to reduce damage to a manageable level.

[Katlan]

If I get some time over the weekend I'll try to gather all the PW info [from this thread] and put it into one post. But if somebody from the LS who fought PW wouldn't mind spending a little bit to write up your findings/theories/ect... I'm sure a lot of people would be very greatful.

I know a majority of the info is already in this thread spread amongst of a bunch of pages, but a full one-post write up [that could be stickied to the first page/post] would prevent a lot of mundane questions and be of some help for the next LS to pop him. Thanks!

[cdgreg]

In reference to the SMN astral flow idea I'm not sure if the posters realized how many HP's the LS said the gears had. I believe they said each set of gears/lamp had about 25,000 HP's. That amount of HP’s may make this theory much much more difficult.

[fndragon]

In reference to the SMN astral flow idea I'm not sure if the posters realized how many HP's the LS said the gears had. I believe they said each set of gears/lamp had about 25,000 HP's. That amount of HP’s may make this theory much much more difficult.

Yeah, that's why I suggested either just perpetually holding them with pets/avatars, or nuking the bjeezus out of them from outside of the room (or a combination of both), where they won't kill you.

Did anyone get the range of their Rail-Gun AoE move? (Also, to the poster previous: Rail-Gun goes through shadows, even solo-target)

[Maxxthepenguin]

In reference to the SMN astral flow idea I'm not sure if the posters realized how many HP's the LS said the gears had. I believe they said each set of gears/lamp had about 25,000 HP's. That amount of HP’s may make this theory much much more difficult.

Diabolos's Astral Flow could actually be of use here. If they don't resist it, even a somewhat low % could be massive damage.

It's easy to test and worth a shot at least.

[Therin]

In reference to the SMN astral flow idea I'm not sure if the posters realized how many HP's the LS said the gears had. I believe they said each set of gears/lamp had about 25,000 HP's. That amount of HP’s may make this theory much much more difficult.

Diabolos's Astral Flow could actually be of use here. If they don't resist it, even a somewhat low % could be massive damage.

It's easy to test and worth a shot at least.

Not to be a killjoy but I've never seen Diabolos do more than like 500 ever.

[Karbuncle]

In reference to the SMN astral flow idea I'm not sure if the posters realized how many HP's the LS said the gears had. I believe they said each set of gears/lamp had about 25,000 HP's. That amount of HP’s may make this theory much much more difficult.

Diabolos's Astral Flow could actually be of use here. If they don't resist it, even a somewhat low % could be massive damage.

It's easy to test and worth a shot at least.

Not to be a killjoy but I've never seen Diabolos do more than like 500 ever.

Did like a 1,460 to some crawler after a ramuh fight in the Tree... best ive ever seen sadly, and i think it was only EM~T -.-;;
Diabolos gets resisted alot, /fail