New ToAU NMs (Now with 100% more Pandemonium!) pg77

[Therin]

I know this may be an absurd idea but did anyone happen to check Sanraku to see if his HNM pic of the day you spawned Pandemonium Warden was Battleclad Chariot. I know that would be a ridiculous prerequisite but just an idea.

Haha, that would be awesome. Unlikely, because the Chariot + Lamp idea fits so well and not many other mobs have "pets" in a similar way, but it would still be awesome.

[Rokitty]

Did you guys happen to note the weather?

Gears AI is related to whether or not there is wind weather I think? (may explain aggro/no aggro?)

Also, is there noticeable TP regen on anything?

There was wind weather on and off throughout the fight. But if wind weather is causing them to aggro similar to regular gears, I don't understand why they specifically aggroed me when I came back into the room when I was clearly out of normal aggro range and there were plenty of people between me and them.

I don't know for sure about gear TP regen since I didn't take off filters until they engaged the chariot, but there seems to be some form of shared TP system going on. I will say that anytime a gear was engaged, I got hit with a ton of Rail Cannons. I'm fairly confident the chariot does not have TP regen though.

[Asura_Zilla]

Gears can go anywhere, Pandemonium Warden can't. Once it moves back to popspot, gears reset hate (somewhat), which is why most people think they can't go into tunnels. They just turn around and go after the target (which has been drawn in by PW). It's what made the kiting strategy so good, because while PW does teleport, the gears don't, which means you're basically only kiting PW (so long as you don't screw up after draw in and start running the direction you came from).

As for effectively -deaggroing- a gear... well lets just say it's hard to try when you're dead if you try to move them without movement speed.

TP regen wise, the moment you claim PW or a gear the first thing you see is rail cannon (or several) -_-;.

Magic resist wise, I'd say 320 skill? tried once with 301 and got resist (on blizzard, I know uncapped ele magic merits >.>..), afterwards just threw with whatever I have over 320, think it's 323.

[Spekkio]

if the draw in modifies the hate on the gears, that may be something exploitable to kill this thing. if you time it with care, you could get an army of blm to ga them. at 18 blm, assuming 8 targets causing a 50% reduction in damage and assuming that one nuke with 1 target is 3% of the gear's HP (i'm playing really fast and loose with the numbers here. if i'm making any sense i can tabulate it better and if i'm not, rocl will poof it saving me the trouble! ^^) 18*1.5%=27% of the gear's HP. blm hightail it away from the gears into the tunnel while the pld trips the warden's port routine. gears mosey on back, letting blm set up again. lather, rinse, repeat. this ofc assumes you can find 18 blm with a deathwish, which may be asking for more than you can get. for the first try at it though, you may be able to borrow bystander blm to ga the gears too and make 18 or more.

to take it to the N'th degree, you could even have 4 groups of 18 blm, and assign each group a specific target. have each group clock nuke their target and the 4 unclaimed ones would be dead while the other 4 would be down to 73%. obviously the second situation is just utterly impractical, but finding 18 blm with half the server standing around watching may be possible.

PS: much <3 to rocl for cleaning up the thread. i didn't get to read it until today and skipping the 200 "ebon panel" theories really sped things up. while it's sure possible that one of them may be the solution, finding the needle in the haystack would be impractical and inefficient when we haven't exhausted the more pedestrian strategies of "lower their HP to 0" and such.

[Eggroll]

Quick question to anyone who has fought Armed Gears (This isn't Pandemonium related), has anyone seen it get locked into it's initial damage resistant mode? Yesterday we low manned it as Rdm x2, Sch, Sam and got it to around 55% in around an hour, and at which point it completely stopped casting any spells at all. Damage went from being bad to being completely resisted on every single spell and eventually we got a few more people to come help to speed up the fight, elemental seal tier IV spells were doing 5 damage. Not sure how melee damage was due to filters but the samurai said his damage was still terrible (less than 100 on weapon skills) even when there was only 1 gear left. Assumed it ran out of MP, but running out of mp in only an hour seems really odd for a mob.

[Sargas]

I know this may be an absurd idea but did anyone happen to check Sanraku to see if his HNM pic of the day you spawned Pandemonium Warden was Battleclad Chariot. I know that would be a ridiculous prerequisite but just an idea.

The lack of more than 2 PW .dats is what makes this a bust.

Are we absolutely sure that the Dvergr and Chariot forms of Pandemonium represent his 2 dats? Put another way, we know Ob can shift between the 4 automaton frames, so are there 4 Obs in the dats, or just one? If someone's going to use that Aydeewa dat with the renamed Lamps next time Pandy gets popped, maybe they should rename the Wardens too so we can be 100% sure on how it works.

[Uzor]

Is it really that hard to think that SE could somehow, perhaps maybe, make the second Pandemonium Warden change appearance and abilities without making a whole new .dat for it? I'd guess the other Pandemonium Warden (the Dvergr one) is there because its the true one, and thus needs a seperate HP bar so that he don't spawn with full health every time you down the false one. Theoretically, it wouldn't be that hard to make him change his list of moves and appearance from a programming viewpoint. Hell, after spawning the second set of lamps (skulls), he changed appearance and all of them also changed appearance to gears. While it might have nothing to do with it, 8+8 = 16, so it sounds strange SE would make 16 seperate .dat's for the 8 gears and skulls alone, especially considering, at least so far, the skulls don't seem to actually engage in the fight. So why make another 14 .dat's for the remaining lamps? Wouldn't it save more space to just simply reuse the initial 16, or am I missing something here?

Personally I'm believing in the 8+6+5+4 theory. One pop at 100%, one at 75%, one at 50% and one at 25%. It just makes more sense imo. I may be wrong, but this behavior of changing appearance and abilities available to the mob is already in the game in the form of Ob. He have 4 different shapes, each with their own list of abilities available to them, and don't have 4 seperate entries in the .dat. But then again, he's a different mob and not in any way related to PW other then being in an earlier tier.

Edit: beaten ; ;

[Stromgarde]

There is only one Ob in the dats, but puppets are somewhat of an oddity in that they are like players and a composite of equippable parts rather than one distinct whole. I still think it's too early to completely rule out other forms if only because it hasn't been completely killed yet, but I'm fairly confident he'd only be able to use Discoid as BCC.

[Kaylia]

Did a bunch of Zhayolm pop last night, and there is a few thing I didnt see posted anywhere (nosferatu recast on summon and killing khroma repop)

Sarameya path
Nosferatu: His summon are on a 1min30 recast exactly. It's easy to stun the summoning spell when you know that (2 stun is recommanded since it got a ~10% resistance), . There was a few time near the end where it delayed casting a bit (when ppl were losing aggro I think), but it's never less than 1min30 and rarely more. Our only DD was a thief and 4BLM, but having more melee DD who can tank would really help. Have sleepga ready for charm under 30%, and kite it around the place if needed, run at normal speed and cast a lot.


Khroma soul: We pulled at the wamoura camp near Halvung passage and used a rdm outside pt to diaga add. It was a joke with 7-8 ppl. Anyway, what I noticed is that at some point, we killed 1 pet, and it repopped 2 for the rest of the fight. It might be possible to kill 2 pets, and have only 1 repop.
The pet was killed by Khroma party near khroma soul. It was previously zoned by the rdm, but came back toward the main group who got hate resting too close.

Achamoth: Probably the easiest t3, but if you have trouble with the pull, just have a pld aggro everything, sleepga and train to zone (DC apkallu entrance in zhayolm). You can sleep the 2 crawler before to make it even easier. Once it's at the zone, any job with ranged can zone and depop add easily (disband first to not give hate to resting mage)

[Seeko]

If you're going to use 10 summoners...why not just get 8 paladins, and have each one hold a gear while you kill them 1 by 1.

Because the Paladins cannot hold the gears. they may attract attention for a moment, but the gears will forget about the paladins and return to the chariot's target.

[Chupunpupun]

Did a bunch of Zhayolm pop last night, and there is a few thing I didnt see posted anywhere (nosferatu recast on summon and killing khroma repop)

Sarameya path
Nosferatu: His summon are on a 1min30 recast exactly. It's easy to stun the summoning spell when you know that (2 stun is recommanded since it got a ~10% resistance), . There was a few time near the end where it delayed casting a bit (when ppl were losing aggro I think), but it's never less than 1min30 and rarely more. Our only DD was a thief and 4BLM, but having more melee DD who can tank would really help. Have sleepga ready for charm under 30%, and kite it around the place if needed, run at normal speed and cast a lot.


Khroma soul: We pulled at the wamoura camp near Halvung passage and used a rdm outside pt to diaga add. It was a joke with 7-8 ppl. Anyway, what I noticed is that at some point, we killed 1 pet, and it repopped 2 for the rest of the fight. It might be possible to kill 2 pets, and have only 1 repop.
The pet was killed by Khroma party near khroma soul. It was previously zoned by the rdm, but came back toward the main group who got hate resting too close.

Achamoth: Probably the easiest t3, but if you have trouble with the pull, just have a pld aggro everything, sleepga and train to zone (DC apkallu entrance in zhayolm). You can sleep the 2 crawler before to make it even easier. Once it's at the zone, any job with ranged can zone and depop add easily (disband first to not give hate to resting mage)

Are there any way to low man Tier 2 cerberus route? I can get to tier 3 on hydra and khimaira route with 2 people but I don't see how I can duo/trio Anantaboga, Dextrose, Reacton.

[Zilong]

?RDM/NIN with w legs can probably lowman anantaboga...it's just gonna be fucking slow and painful.

[Spira]

given that theres 2 PW in the dats, it seems unlikely that there'll be alot chariot version that PW can transform into if we go with the assumption that each mob requires 1 dat entry. Ob as an automaton is slightly different.. tho I probably can't explain why.. but automatons changing forms has been done before.. such as in the PUP AF3 BC fight..

Also, if 1 dat entry could hold more than 1 mob model, it wouldn't explain why PW specifically has 2 instead of 1, or 5... (if we assume each unique chariot gets its own).
(For me, I thought Battleclad Chariot seems rather appropriate cos its design looks like a pair of horns on its head, like a demon.. like the dvergr..)

that said.. theres also the lamps to account for..
we know that there are 30 entries for lamps in the dats.. but we also know that they can be skulls or gears..
if we assume that each dat entry is for 1 mob only, and that there are equal number of skull lamps and gear lamps, then is 15 each.. and we can also throw out the whole 30 NMs to reach PW theory with regard to the significance in the number of lamps..

If this is the case, and if each of the skull lamps converts to the gears.. (didn't see any mention of this, but i'm blind)...
then 30 - 8*2 = 14 lamps not used in the dats. If we assume equal number of skulls and gears again, thats an additional 7 each..

what the LS didnt try was killing all the gears form lamps. theres a possibility that killing them all could have triggered an AI change or form change in PW, or led to PW popping more lamps, to make up for the 7x2 unaccounted lamps in the fight...

This will probably be figured out by the next group who pops it.. and use the edited numbered dats provided to track the lamps...

[aurik]

If you're going to use 10 summoners...why not just get 8 paladins, and have each one hold a gear while you kill them 1 by 1.

Because the Paladins cannot hold the gears. they may attract attention for a moment, but the gears will forget about the paladins and return to the chariot's target.

Which is why paladins generates hate repeatedly to continue to pull the gears away?

Edit for more thoughts:

Some quick facts: rail cannon and artificial grav are both magical damage. In triple-mode, they both wipe shadows. Grav is a 10' radius for normal gears, cannon is 20'. The grav is extremely strong. It should be clear from this and the screenshot of low-damage hits that paladins or perhaps rdms seem to be preferred tanks for gears, as they are self-sufficient, high defense, and able to stack MDB gears.

The real problem is: if they are intending for us to kill the lamps, then we need to build a unit that is capable of withstanding the onslaught while the lamps are killed. With rail cannon and artificial grav doing a lot of damage it seems unlikely that a single tanking unit could hold all 8 + PW at the same time. So the logical follow-up is, can we split them apart?

Is there perhaps a pulling technique that can be used that breaks the association between PW and his gears? I'm thinking of the similarly slightly-wonky hate relationship that is used for attestation nms in dynamis-bcd.

Perhaps something like this would work: player A vokes an idle PW. After the gears have aggrod him, the 8 gears are immediately peeled off by supporting players. After that Player B pulls PW. Player A then suicides. Now, the 8 gears are unaware of the player who is tanking PW--he should be able to perform any action and not gain hate from the gears...will they still spontaneously attack him?

[Wulfgang]

It might be possible to kill 2 pets, and have only 1 repop.

We actually tried this for Khromasoul after it became apparent two -ga III's would not kill the Grenadiers. We held one pop twice in the hope that it would not summon more until it was dead. Instead, he despawned the one mob left and then summoned a whole new set of three (DRKs I think). This happened twice.

[tsola]

Ok, here is everything we found out about Pandemonium last night. I am just going to post it here, and if mods or whoever feels it should be moved new thread they can do whatever they feel is necessary.

Pops at the ??? at K-6 in Aydeewa Subterrane via Wajaom Woodlands F/G-11 (hug right wall in Aydeewa to get there).

The room itself:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...bterrane_7.jpg

*The room is full of leeches, that do NOT aggro.
*There are 3 slimes in the room that DO aggro.
*When wind weather is active, several wind elementals spawn in the room.
*There are 2 "exits" to the room. One where the arrow is, and the SW corner of the map.

Pandemonium Warden

*Spawns as a Dvegyr mob.
*Immediately uses Hellsnap (AoE stun), and spawns 8 Pandemonium Lamps (skulls).
*A second later, switches to chariot form, and all lamps turn into triple gear mobs.
*Does not have TP regen.
*Immune to slow, elegy, paralyze, gravity, bind, sleep. Shadowbind works.
*Poison lands, but builds some kind of resistance.
*Has some resistance to stun. BLMs were reporting it resisting 50%~ of the time.
*Moves at normal movement speed.
*From 100%-51% has standard chariot TP moves including Discharge, Inertia Stream, and Diffusion Ray.
*TP moves do more damage than the bosses in salvage. A melee without shell IV took 650~ damage discharge. Shell 4 lowered this to high 400s.
*From 50% on gains access to Discoid(roughly 10k needles move).
*Does not share hate with lamps, nor does it link with them.
*When a player with hate leaves the room, and PW attempts to follow, as soon as PW hits the hallway, PW will teleport back to its spawn point, and then draw-in the alliance/player with hate.
*There's a slight moment after the draw in when it just sits there, allowing you to run off without getting hit.
*Depops after a few minutes if nobody has hate. Ours depopped despite us having hate on the gears.

Pandemonium Lamps(Triple Gears)

*Spawns 8 of them at the start.
*25,000HP each.
*Primarily uses Rail Cannon. Does NOT use Restoral.
*Rail Cannon hits everyone, regardless of enmity for 400-600dmg~. Does not seem to be fan-shaped or anything, hit players in all directions.
*VERY long range. Can hit players over 20' away.
*Immune to gravity, bind, sleep, repose, lullaby. Elemental Seal was tested as well.
*Poison, paralyze, slow, elegy all work.
*Gears do link with each other.
*Usually were not aggressive, however, sometimes they were. Unclear what made them aggro. (Wind weather did not seem to affect this)
*Usually refused to leave the room, however a few times they did.
*Can still Rail Cannon players that are outside the room.
*Once the player with hate leaves the room, they will immediately run back and assist Pandemonium Warden.
*Have some kind of TP regen, and/or shared TP system between the gears. Very common to see multiple Rail Cannons going off at a time.
*Shares hate with Pandemonium Warden.
*Was fairly difficult to pull off the player who had hate on Pandemonium Warden. Small enfeebles like Poison and bio would not pull hate.
*Would run and assist Pandemonium Warden multiple times when attempted to be killed. BLMs/RNGs worked the best for our group.

Strategies we used

*Kiting it while abusing the draw in works very well.
*Pull Pandemonium Warden, exit the room via one of the two exits.
*Pandemonium Warden will teleport back to its spawn point, and then draw you in a second later. The gears do NOT get teleported back to the spawn point. Once you're back at the center the room, exit the room via a different exit, so you don't meet the gears halfway. Keep repeating this, switching which exit you take, and as long as you don't mess up, you can essentially hold forever.
*However, over time, the distance between you and the gears will close if you're not careful.
*Can somewhat do damage to the gears while kiting, since their hate will primarily be on PW's target. We were able to DoT a lamp (and a few small nukes) to like 80%~ before we messed up kiting.
*Again, the main danger when killing the gears is the Rail Cannon spam which can wipe people quickly, add in the fact that it will run off to attack PW's target, and since it will be separate from the rest of the gears, it can mess up the kiter.
*Once we killed 7/8 gears, and just had to mainly focus on PW itself, it was quite simple.
*Even with the lack of debuffs on PW, it was simple to tank, and since it has no increased movement, and tons of pathing problems, simple to kite.
*Watch out for slimes that could be in the way, as well as wind elementals when they pop.
*The majority of our problems came from trying to securely take out the gears.
*Killing PW with 1 lamp left alive repopped it as a Dvegyr, which quickly turned back into a chariot, and 8 gears.
*It's obviously assumed you should kill 8/8 gears before killing PW so that it can probably change back to it's original form or whatever it decides to do when you kill 8/8.

This is everything we found that I can remember. Hopefully this is useful to whoever is able to pop it next, so they can develop some kind of strategy to deal with the gears that doesn't involve killing it with exp.

[Flippant]

Are there any way to low man Tier 2 cerberus route? I can get to tier 3 on hydra and khimaira route with 2 people but I don't see how I can duo/trio Anantaboga, Dextrose, Reacton.

Anantaboga is pretty easy to kite, but the ??? is on top of a dragon with 30 minute repop and I'm not sure where you can safely pull it, since duo or trio would probably take a while. Only problem with NM itself is Virelai and Horde spam.

[Wizerd]

Are there any way to low man Tier 2 cerberus route? I can get to tier 3 on hydra and khimaira route with 2 people but I don't see how I can duo/trio Anantaboga, Dextrose, Reacton.

Anantaboga is pretty easy to kite, but the ??? is on top of a dragon with 30 minute repop and I'm not sure where you can safely pull it, since duo or trio would probably take a while. Only problem with NM itself is Virelai and Horde spam.

This has been covered in the thread. Kite Anantaboga to the south end of the island through the tunnel. He's easy to get there because of how often he spams songs. Then just kite around this island, watch out for a ghost or two at night in the far corners.

[stinkypoo]

?RDM/NIN with w legs can probably lowman anantaboga...it's just gonna be fucking slow and painful.

Did Boogabooga as RDM/NIN + SMN/NIN and it really wasn't that bad...took maybe 30 min, 40 max. BLM instead of SMN would probably be a little better, and more BLMs would speed it up considerably. Kited to the south island as mentionned, only need invis to get through tunnel. You will have to go through some flying Wamouras to get there, but I didn't have any problems.

[Chupunpupun]

?RDM/NIN with w legs can probably lowman anantaboga...it's just gonna be fucking slow and painful.

Did Boogabooga as RDM/NIN + SMN/NIN and it really wasn't that bad...took maybe 30 min, 40 max. BLM instead of SMN would probably be a little better, and more BLMs would speed it up considerably. Kited to the south island as mentionned, only need invis to get through tunnel. You will have to go through some flying Wamouras to get there, but I didn't have any problems.

what did you guys do about chaosblade? I think that move has a range of 20+.