New ToAU NMs (Now with 100% more Pandemonium!) pg77

[Max™]

Aurum Sabatons, a.k.a. the shoes of win and awesome that only tarus should wear, because they're hideous on anyone else, drop off Gears/Moth.

[Zekyr]

Aurum Sabatons, a.k.a. the shoes of win and awesome that only tarus should wear, because they're hideous on anyone else, drop off Gears/Moth.

Tarus should only wear them because you guys are too damn tiny to even tell what armor you're wearing

[Danielb]

I got a great idea, how about update bgwiki with new info on znms....

[Zilong]

But seriously, instead of going for 1h fight against the dragon with 2-3, just bring 4-5 and do a multiples 5minutes fight against dextrose with 4-6 people. Not to mention it take less time to get to Dextrose than it does to get to the dragon.

Problem with dextrose fight is that with 4-5 people, you'd only be able to fit in 1 dextrose before you have to go back to killing all repopped flans/antares on the ??? spawn area...which pretty much make the whole dextrose affair a ~16 min deal per.

That and I don't buy that it takes less time to get to dextrose than anantaboga spawn, unless you go to both area strictly from nyzul SP.

[Judai]

But seriously, instead of going for 1h fight against the dragon with 2-3, just bring 4-5 and do a multiples 5minutes fight against dextrose with 4-6 people. Not to mention it take less time to get to Dextrose than it does to get to the dragon.

Problem with dextrose fight is that with 4-5 people, you'd only be able to fit in 1 dextrose before you have to go back to killing all repopped flans/antares on the ??? spawn area...which pretty much make the whole dextrose affair a ~16 min deal per.

That and I don't buy that it takes less time to get to dextrose than anantaboga spawn, unless you go to both area strictly from nyzul SP.

Wrong.

tbh the repops dont even matter. We ended up killing 3 Dextrose the other night. Cleared pops> Killed Dex, popped second Dex and the puddings repopped as we fought it, he absorbed them all and it made the fight last about 5m longer> Popped 3rd and killed it and warped out as next set of puddings began to repop. He pretty much kills the puddings when he absorbs them and he really doesn't gain a gigantic amount of HP back. It took like a drain or T3 nuke to finish the adds off. You could easily kill 3+ Dex with 5 ppl before you could kill one Dragon with 2. We killed 3 Dex in about 30m total with 6 people, we actually had still had the drops from the second one in the pool when the third died..

It takes like 15m to get to Dex, Nyzul>Bird Camp>Run through Halvung(takes 5m to run there at max). Takes about the same to get to the Dragon. It's not hard to run through Halvung either, I've run there 3x now I think and only aggro'd one Troll otw, which we just sleep/log out if we aggro.

People have really made 90% of these zNMs sound 10x harder to get to and kill. Troll wiped Allys, we destroyed it with 7 and it was a complete joke to tank/kill. Flan was supposed to be a pain to get to, takes us 15m and no deaths. Even the Bomb, it's really not hard to get to, just have one person train everything and follow, should take maybe 10m to run to from entering Halvung.

Obviously a majority of people have been sitting in Aery too long and have no experience running to the deeper parts of these places or killing the mobs in them.

[Mojo]

Here's a bit more detailed information on Sarameya~

When Chainspell is up, both magic and weaponskills are executed instantly.
It uses Chainspell on HP based intervals, those being 89%, 69%, 49%, 29%, and 9%. It will only uses Chainspell at these intervals once, so if it regens up from spikes hitting it down again won't trigger another Chainspell.
It seems to build a resistance to Stun, so avoid using Stun on Ga III spells and reserve them for the end.

Sarameya will have access to Gates of Hades during the 9% Chainspell and possibly the 29% depending on how fast you're killing it. Thus bad luck could result in quite a few Gates of Hades going off. It's not terribly difficult to deal with if you have good positioning. However, Sarameya doesn't have an excessive amount of HP. It's possible to have a few melee save TP(SAM work well because of Sekkanoki) and job abilties to spam during that last 9% to finish it off before its Chainspell becomes a problem. We finished the final 9% with DRK, WAR, WAR, and THF in the time it took for it to get 3-4 spells/weaponskills off. No 2 hours were used and there wasn't much TP saving either, so really if you plan for it and have good melee it should be cake.

[Spira]

Could be because as I mentioned earlier, if one is the fake one (chariot) and one is the real one, they need a second one (the real one) to keep track of his real HP. Example:

Get PW1 (true) to 75% HP
PW1 transforms in to PW2 (Chariot)
PW2 at 100% HP, kills lamp and chariot
PW2 transforms in to PW1
PW1 now has 75% HP (same as when he transformed)

Now, if we assume he can only be battleclad chariot and not any other mob, and the lamps are then 15 skulls and 15 gears, that is good news. That means that the possible combination for repops is either 8 > 7, or 8 > 4 > 3, or 8 > 4 > 2 > 1. Out of those, I'd consider 8 > 4 > 2 > 1 the most likely.

Still, don't explain why there are skulls as you don't seem to actually fight them. So something's missing.

I like your 8>4>2>1 theory, because that seems like something SE would do. Also because it kinda makes sense numerically.. tho its actually getting 'easier' as you progress.. (unless the following waves of lamps are more deadly...)

I'm also wondering more about that dual .dat entries.. Ob being able to 'change models' might rule out the 1 model per dat reasoning for 2 dat entries and maybe be there just for the dual HP record entries.

Also, in order to use up all the lamps in the dats, my guess of his fight, if properly carried out works this way.
Assuming your dual HP% theory and 8>4>2>1.

PW popped as Dvergr (HP% is HP: Dvergr)
PW summons lamps (does he actually summon them or they just pop up along with him when he pops?)
PW immediately transforms to Chariot mode (HP% switches to HP: Chariot)
Lamps switch from skulls to gears mode. The lamps probably undergo the same HP% swap thing. but they may be significantly easier in skull mode? After all, skulls aren't actual mobs. They probably don't have TP moves...

Speculation based on what didn't happen:
A: if all lamps are killed, then chariot killed, PW may return to Dvergr mode (HP -> HP: Dvergr)
B: if all lamps aren't killed, then chariot killed, PW may return to Dvergr mode, but with the same number of lamps
(B appears to be true based on 1st pop reports)

If his lamps are 8>4>2>1 and pop in waves, possibly they pop at intervals of 25%, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%. And any damage PW takes will remain, since he doesn't seem to regen at all. Its also possible he transforms to chariot mode at different intervals as the lamps summoning, giving you an opportunity to kill them in skull mode instead of gear mode, and saving you the trouble of gear mode if you managed to kill it in skull mode first. But occams razor, i shouldn't think too far.

Now, this is a totally random thought
assuming that 1 dat model can accomodate more than 1 graphic model, and is only needed to keep track of the HP (which might explain why Ob is only 1 model), then if we follow the 8>4>2>1 theory, which suggests he transforms 4 times.. is it not possible that he can transform to all 4 different kinds of Chariots? That way he'd have access to brainjack, homing missile and mortal revolution as well.. which doesn't necessarily make sense.. but goes with the whole 'tour of Aht Urhgan type' mobs idea...

then again, another silly observation, ramparts are the only new mob type from ToA that isn't in any way part of the ZNM system. This is if you discount reskins and same mob-type variations

[Secksi]

I got a great idea, how about update bgwiki with new info on znms....

Something cool about wiki's, you can do it if you care so much.

As far PW goes. I'm of the belief that IF the gears really are that difficult to kill, to the point that any shell will need to kill 1-2 wipe, rr, wait 5 mins, and do it again until they're all dead, then they probably aren't meant to be killed at all, it is supposed to be Pandemonium after all right? I have to question how greatly geared the people are that were doing this, not being a dick but just curious in general. Are we talking very well geared shells that are only missing a few random thing or more than a few things. Do you guys feel you were putting the gears down as quickly as could be without really crazy DD? Can outside people claim individually and CFH(like Kirin summons) then everyone around zerg them down? I don't think this was asked, and if it was then not answered, or I just missed it completely.

Chariot seemed to have jackshit for HP. I'm having a hard time thinking of another mob that it's helpers need to stay up on, but it really doesn't seem unreasonable if they can be kited away somewhat while you damage the chariot and they are so fucking tough to kill.

Posting at 5am is probably a bad idea. The extra gears in the dat's make me feel I'm wrong, something something I forgot while typing this up, just the first thing that popped into my head when I read how difficult they are.

Also didn't see the answer to how many gears popped the second time, and what happened to the original one that you guys were holding. Depop? Change to a skull and then back to a gear?

[Lordwafik]

woohoo 2/2 Tinnin fangs back to back. No alchemychops though. If only the other nms put out this easily.

[Virtuous Saint]

Need more PANDEMONIUM!!! Get on those T4 people!!! Someone HAS to be 2/3 out there.. at least.

[Kaylia]

Problem with dextrose fight is that with 4-5 people, you'd only be able to fit in 1 dextrose before you have to go back to killing all repopped flans/antares on the ??? spawn area...which pretty much make the whole dextrose affair a ~16 min deal per.

That and I don't buy that it takes less time to get to dextrose than anantaboga spawn, unless you go to both area strictly from nyzul SP.

Just let dextroxe eats the repop for free experience point (4k hp healed isnt dramatic). If you see it go for a repop, grav it and nuke the repop to lower the hp gained by dextrose.

Nyzul --> collibri --> halvung is pretty quick. Less time was an exageration, but it's you're a looking at a ~10 minutes trip for both. If you can do dragon with 4-5ppl in 15min without any death, go for it, I won't stop you.

[Mojo]

woohoo 2/2 Tinnin fangs back to back. No alchemychops though. If only the other nms put out this easily.

0/13 for any one of the Pandemonium items whatsoever. Ass; ;

[*Blaize*]

woohoo 2/2 Tinnin fangs back to back. No alchemychops though. If only the other nms put out this easily.

0/13 for any one of the Pandemonium items whatsoever. Ass; ;

We have 2 Sarameyas planned for today, and went 1/1 on Tinnin's Fang.. here's hoping.

[Starr]

oh hi mojo stop being offline

[Max™]

Aurum Sabatons, a.k.a. the shoes of win and awesome that only tarus should wear, because they're hideous on anyone else, drop off Gears/Moth.

Tarus should only wear them because you guys are too damn tiny to even tell what armor you're wearing

Only if you're not a taru.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4...601awd5.th.jpg

[futan]

Could be because as I mentioned earlier, if one is the fake one (chariot) and one is the real one, they need a second one (the real one) to keep track of his real HP. Example:

Get PW1 (true) to 75% HP
PW1 transforms in to PW2 (Chariot)
PW2 at 100% HP, kills lamp and chariot
PW2 transforms in to PW1
PW1 now has 75% HP (same as when he transformed)

Now, if we assume he can only be battleclad chariot and not any other mob, and the lamps are then 15 skulls and 15 gears, that is good news. That means that the possible combination for repops is either 8 > 7, or 8 > 4 > 3, or 8 > 4 > 2 > 1. Out of those, I'd consider 8 > 4 > 2 > 1 the most likely.

Still, don't explain why there are skulls as you don't seem to actually fight them. So something's missing.

I like your 8>4>2>1 theory, because that seems like something SE would do. Also because it kinda makes sense numerically.. tho its actually getting 'easier' as you progress.. (unless the following waves of lamps are more deadly...)

The problem with the 8>4>2>1 theory is they wouldn't need 15 of them in the .DATs if the most that would be up at a time is 8. In other words, when it 1st pops Lamps 1 through 8 are out. Assuming a new wave pops once these original 8 are dead, they wouldn't need to be Lamps 9-12 since 1-8 are dead and could then be reused. An example of this in the fight itself would be how after they killed the Chariot, it repopped when there are only 2 Pandemonium Warden in the .DATs. So a 8>12>14>15 would make more sense.

[Spira]

you have a point about reusing the dat entries.. i never thought about that..
but since the dats are in excess.. then there has to be a reason for them to be there rite?

I really don't know how each dat works, but I'm guessing from a logical point of view that each one of them is assigned a HP stat, as well as the basic stats and AI..

perhaps if it goes by the 8 > 4 > 2 >1 thing, the gears use different files because they are differently coded? Possibly stronger or faster? or with longer HP and more TP spammy? or different AI..
The number of lamps will be a mystery for as long as we don't get new info on them (and without using the numbered dats, probably).

For all we know, the later lamps might not even be triple gears..

[*Blaize*]

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8...8160341ur3.png

Excalibur on Fairy currently 2/3

Edit: 2/2 on Sarameya hides >_>;

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7...8164753so9.png

[Max™]

Ya know, if it did keep spawning more each time they're repopped, it could just mean that you are supposed to deal with the main mob while all of the lamps are up.

It's quite possible that if they had killed the last gear before the chariot, that it would have repopped anyways, since they killed the first gear they may have been assured of that.


The gears are just so unreasonable, it looks like you were meant to deal with the Pandemonium of having 8 of those bastards buzzing around while you kill the Warden.

[arus2001]

I know some are knocking the whole Soultrapper theory and not wanting to turn this into AV 2.0, but I'd like to think the difference between the two is that STs and the whole Zeni system are what got people there to begin with. Maybe it turns the gear lamps back into the skulls. Maybe it disables some TP moves. Maybe it kills the shared hate on that specific gear. As others have said, SE's done some weird things in the past like kneeling to Odin.

Is there any excess text that could be found in the zone dats about things shorting out or unaccounted for whatnots beyond PW's entrance and presumably death blurb? Either way, 4 jettons just to test won't kill anyone.