New ToAU NMs (Now with 100% more Pandemonium!) pg77

[Maxxthepenguin]

Not to mention that you still need to tote around HQ staves for nuking unless you just want to straight up gimp yourself.

That staff is mediocre at best if you ask me.

RDM nuking luls. You'd still only want Aquilos and Jupiter for most RDM nuking, right?

luls at what? playing RDM to its full potential? Sure, mostly aquilo's and juipter's for the most part, but not all the time. I use Fire III often on my RDM because the other two aren't ready yet. Terra's for -physical damage taken, apollo's for curing, pluto's for resting. I seriously can't believe you think it replaces HQ staves (or staves in general, you still need to carry at least the NQ of the last few around).

I sure hope you didn't get an apollo's for RDM only.

In any case, there are uses for other staves but for enfeebling, I don't see how HQ staves are as useful. They only add MAcc. This adds a ton of MAcc (an amount I'd wager to be near HQ staves) and enhances potency too. Yay this staff.

Is that hard to understand?

[Maxxthepenguin]

Is it MATT+15% or MATT+15, or is tho no difference?

Neither. It's a flat modifier applied seperately from Matk. With +0 matk, it's like 15 matk. With +60 matk it's like +24 matk. I guess if you say that your "default Matk" is 100, you could say it's a 15% bonus to matk. Note: The increased 'effective matk' value is more about how Matk has diminishing returns than the power of the staff gaining power.

At least, that's how I understand it.

[chapstick]

Is it MATT+15% or MATT+15, or is tho no difference?

Neither. It's a flat modifier applied seperately from Matk. With +0 matk, it's like 15 matk. With +60 matk it's like +69 matk. I guess if you say that your "default Matk" is 100, you could say it's a 15% bonus to matk.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Ugh... so wrong.

Yeah I bought apollo's for my RDM, I like the pretty white box. Does that make you angry? What I'm saying is if you are going for potency, this is gimp. If you're going for accuracy, I'm willing to bet this is also gimp. If you think mixing them both together is the best, then good for you, but I am beginning to think you don't know anything about RDM at all.

[Merkury]

Ill just be using that staff for a new prettier Stoneskin equip for blm and thats about all

[Toksyuryel]

otherwiki seems to claim that the staff bonus is actually applied BEFORE MAB (even before day/weather)... this goes against everything I have ever been told about how the staves work. I think I am going to go test this to make sure I am not losing my mind here. afaik the staff bonus is supposed to be applied after MAB.

EDIT: hm, otherwiki is right.. the staff bonus is applied before MAB is.. though, this seems to result in more damage than the other way around, so how 'bout some instead

[Shuemue]

Ill just be using that staff for a new prettier Stoneskin equip for blm and thats about all

Kirin's Pole would be a damn sight cheaper.

[Virtuous Saint]

Chapstick apparently has magic acc figured out, I would love to see all of his hard work, and his extensive testing on different lvls of magic acc and compared to HQ staves ect..

[UnknownKiller]

Is it MATT+15% or MATT+15, or is tho no difference?

Neither. It's a flat modifier applied seperately from Matk. With +0 matk, it's like 15 matk. With +60 matk it's like +69 matk. I guess if you say that your "default Matk" is 100, you could say it's a 15% bonus to matk.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Ugh... so wrong.

Yeah I bought apollo's for my RDM, I like the pretty white box. Does that make you angry? What I'm saying is if you are going for potency, this is gimp. If you're going for accuracy, I'm willing to bet this is also gimp. If you think mixing them both together is the best, then good for you, but I am beginning to think you don't know anything about RDM at all.

What good is landing para, if it doesnt proc at all? This staff would give you some extra potency without having to lose a large amount of macc. How is that bad?

[chapstick]

Is it MATT+15% or MATT+15, or is tho no difference?

Neither. It's a flat modifier applied seperately from Matk. With +0 matk, it's like 15 matk. With +60 matk it's like +69 matk. I guess if you say that your "default Matk" is 100, you could say it's a 15% bonus to matk.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Ugh... so wrong.

Yeah I bought apollo's for my RDM, I like the pretty white box. Does that make you angry? What I'm saying is if you are going for potency, this is gimp. If you're going for accuracy, I'm willing to bet this is also gimp. If you think mixing them both together is the best, then good for you, but I am beginning to think you don't know anything about RDM at all.

What good is landing para, if it doesnt proc at all? This staff would give you some extra potency without having to lose a large amount of macc. How is that bad?

I don't remember saying I cast para in HQ staff. It's not bad, but i wouldn't call it the best - that is my point. What's the point of having more m.acc for para if you already don't resist and have more MND?

Virtuous saint, thank you for the sarcasm. I never claimed to have done extensive tests on magic accuracy versus staff bonus accuracy. What I say comes from in-game experience, not from number crunching.

[Maxxthepenguin]

otherwiki seems to claim that the staff bonus is actually applied BEFORE MAB (even before day/weather)... this goes against everything I have ever been told about how the staves work. I think I am going to go test this to make sure I am not losing my mind here. afaik the staff bonus is supposed to be applied after MAB.

Aside from maybe if they round after individual parts are added to the equation, it doesn't matter as long as you have your parenthesis in the right place.

[Toksyuryel]

otherwiki seems to claim that the staff bonus is actually applied BEFORE MAB (even before day/weather)... this goes against everything I have ever been told about how the staves work. I think I am going to go test this to make sure I am not losing my mind here. afaik the staff bonus is supposed to be applied after MAB.

Aside from maybe if they round after individual parts are added to the equation, it doesn't matter as long as you have your parenthesis in the right place.

It's floored after each term, so the order does affect the damage, however not to a significant degree

I had wanted to post that "HQ staves are simply a flat +15% bonus damage applied after everything else" but apparently I was wrong about that, though it works out to a "close enough" anyway.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I don't remember saying I cast para in HQ staff. It's not bad, but i wouldn't call it the best - that is my point. What's the point of having more m.acc for para if you already don't resist and have more MND?

Virtuous saint, thank you for the sarcasm. I never claimed to have done extensive tests on magic accuracy versus staff bonus accuracy. What I say comes from in-game experience, not from number crunching.

This staff + raptor+1 grip is 12 MND 20 Macc. If you have the optimal Club+Shield set (including the just released Muse Tariqah) you can get 17 MND. That's 5 more MND. What other slot do you choose 5 MND over 20 Macc? I'd love to know. I'd also love to know how you land everything without some Macc. The way I see it, getting Macc+potency from this staff is more efficient than the other slots so if you have this staff available it would be stupid to use other, less efficient slots for Macc and not use this staff.

I'm also assuming 20 Macc is comparable to staves, of course. Also, I consider 1 skill = 1 macc (dark magic excluded, obviously.)

[Spira]

hmm nice drop info..

seems the 2 cap + 1 body theory holds out very well..
it seems that the tier 4 NMs have a loot pool that includes 10 items

3 synth mat + 1 trigger + 2 weapons + 2 caps + 1 body + 1 hachiryu

Cerberus' (Saranghaeyo~ ) pool seems to be complete...

by elimination,
this is probably the expected drop list from the other 2..

Tinnin
weapon #2
Hachiryu Sune-Ate

Tyger
weapon #2
Aurum Armet

---

as for the 2 weapons that might drop...

to the best of my knowledge, these are the only unaccounted ones left i think

Dorje
DMG:42 Delay:402 MP+20 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+25 MP recovered while healing +10
Lv. 75 WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN/SCH

Enforcer
DMG:95 Delay:528 STR+3 DEX+3 Evasion-6 Additional effect: MP drain
Lv. 74 DRK

Shusui
DMG:37 Delay:227 HP-20 DEX+3 Accuracy+5 "Subtle Blow"+2
Lv. 72 NIN

Shlng. Baghnakhs
DMG:+21 Delay:+51 STR+3 Accuracy+10 "Double Attack"+1% "Subtle Blow"+3
Lv. 71 MNK/PUP

Nanatsusaya
DMG:77 Delay:420 STR+7 DEX+7 Enhances "Zanshin" effect
Lv. 72 SAM

Balestarius
DMG:88 Delay:504 VIT+8 Physical damage taken -8 Campaign: Occasionally attacks twice
Lv. 74 WAR (can kinda rule this one out cos of Campaign stat)

[Virtuous Saint]

Is it MATT+15% or MATT+15, or is tho no difference?

Neither. It's a flat modifier applied seperately from Matk. With +0 matk, it's like 15 matk. With +60 matk it's like +69 matk. I guess if you say that your "default Matk" is 100, you could say it's a 15% bonus to matk.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Ugh... so wrong.

Yeah I bought apollo's for my RDM, I like the pretty white box. Does that make you angry? What I'm saying is if you are going for potency, this is gimp. If you're going for accuracy, I'm willing to bet this is also gimp. If you think mixing them both together is the best, then good for you, but I am beginning to think you don't know anything about RDM at all.

What good is landing para, if it doesnt proc at all? This staff would give you some extra potency without having to lose a large amount of macc. How is that bad?

I don't remember saying I cast para in HQ staff. It's not bad, but i wouldn't call it the best - that is my point. What's the point of having more m.acc for para if you already don't resist and have more MND?

Virtuous saint, thank you for the sarcasm. I never claimed to have done extensive tests on magic accuracy versus staff bonus accuracy. What I say comes from in-game experience, not from number crunching.

So then why is it you are saying this staff will 100% be inferior to HQ staves, based on in game experience you somehow came about how much magic acc HQ staves withhold?

[Yutuyu]

I don't remember saying I cast para in HQ staff. It's not bad, but i wouldn't call it the best - that is my point. What's the point of having more m.acc for para if you already don't resist and have more MND?

Virtuous saint, thank you for the sarcasm. I never claimed to have done extensive tests on magic accuracy versus staff bonus accuracy. What I say comes from in-game experience, not from number crunching.

Ingame experience means shit when it comes to arguing things which're numerical or statistical. It's completely subjective and based on the limitations of human bias (which are numerous if you know anything about psychology). It's an argument that basically says, "take what I'm saying to be truth even though I offer no proof that it is." If you can't back up your opinions with evidence or logic, you should just shut your mouth. "It's true because I know it is" is circular logic.

Either way this should be very easy to test, because if it's 15% MACC vs. 15, then HQ staves should vastly outperform the new staff, and if the other way around, then the new staves should significantly outperform HQ staves.

[Virtuous Saint]

I don't remember saying I cast para in HQ staff. It's not bad, but i wouldn't call it the best - that is my point. What's the point of having more m.acc for para if you already don't resist and have more MND?

Virtuous saint, thank you for the sarcasm. I never claimed to have done extensive tests on magic accuracy versus staff bonus accuracy. What I say comes from in-game experience, not from number crunching.

Ingame experience means shit when it comes to arguing things which're numerical or statistical. It's completely subjective and based on the limitations of human bias (which are numerous if you know anything about psychology). It's an argument that basically says, "take what I'm saying to be truth even though I offer no proof that it is." If you can't back up your opinions with evidence or logic, you should just shut your mouth. "It's true because I know it is" is circular logic.

Either way this should be very easy to test, because if it's 15% MACC vs. 15, then HQ staves should vastly outperform the new staff, and if the other way around, then the new staves should significantly outperform HQ staves.

Well said sir.

[chapstick]

Max. I can agree and disagree with you. The setup you listed above I would consider decent, but +20 M.acc is not always necessary. It highly depends on what you are fighting. It's silly to lose 5 MND for accuracy that you don't need in those situations. The way I see it, mobs that are going to resist paralyze/slow, will still resist you with this equipped. Hell, they'll resist you with full on accuracy gear. To me it seems like an intermediate piece, even if +20 macc is alot.

Sorry I'm being so defensive and argumentative, but this plus the fact that you will still need other elemental staves for other situations makes me very hesitant to believe that this is in fact the "best staff for RDM".

Shit's situational, we all know this. No sense going at eachother over personal preference.

[Dexy]

I don't remember saying I cast para in HQ staff. It's not bad, but i wouldn't call it the best - that is my point. What's the point of having more m.acc for para if you already don't resist and have more MND?

Virtuous saint, thank you for the sarcasm. I never claimed to have done extensive tests on magic accuracy versus staff bonus accuracy. What I say comes from in-game experience, not from number crunching.

Ingame experience means shit when it comes to arguing things which're numerical or statistical. It's completely subjective and based on the limitations of human bias (which are numerous if you know anything about psychology). It's an argument that basically says, "take what I'm saying to be truth even though I offer no proof that it is." If you can't back up your opinions with evidence or logic, you should just shut your mouth. "It's true because I know it is" is circular logic.

Either way this should be very easy to test, because if it's 15% MACC vs. 15, then HQ staves should vastly outperform the new staff, and if the other way around, then the new staves should significantly outperform HQ staves.

Sounds a lot like Religion!

[Demosthenes11]

to put it simply, HQ staves offer the biggest and most noticeable improvement than any other piece of equipment, and large amount of mnd can be used in the slot instead of this new staff while stacking skill elsewhere.

This staff might have a few uses, but it really isn't that good

[miokomioko]

BRD? :3