New ToAU NMs (Now with 100% more Pandemonium!) pg77

[Xajii]

on Alkalurops:

so much bs talk and 0 testing, stfu until someone actually tries it out.

if it's not just as good or better than HQ staves, it's damn near close. i will be testing tomorrow afternoon in this manner:

200 sleep II casts on Phasma in mount zhayolm.

100 will be cast with Alkalurops only
100 will be cast with Pluto's staff and mahatma slops only
slops +8 INT balance the +10 on Alka vs Pluto's +2

tests will not be run on Darksday or Lightsday or under either weather condition, obviously.

this will only be a preliminary trial but it should give me a basic comparison to see if it's worth testing further.

the INT doesnt need to be balanced.. its part of the bonus that comes with the staff and should be considered when testing.

I am testing m.accuracy +20 vs. the alleged 15% bonus on HQ staff. I don't care right now about potency. That is a different subject altogether. If I find that the HQ staff performs only marginally better accuracy-wise than Alkalurops I will then be glad to take into account the [significant] potency bonus that Alka gives. However until then I will not have my test be compromised by subjective factors.

edit: It's also notable we're dealing with Sleep II and not something like Paralyze here, which has a direct stat-potency enhancement. Duration of sleep is not the same as proc rate of a paralyze or % of a slow. So again, different types of testing.

[Yutuyu]

If you want to test magic accuracy do it with nukes, not enfeebles. You can spam low level element spells and look at the resists and do quick tests with that.

[CelinaAlexander]

You know, this gear is awesome, a lot of it is better than RotZ stuff, but did you ever notice how SE has consistently avoided releasing gear that can replace it?

I almost wonder if they're all sitting there like "Shit, we didn't mean for Ridills to be THAT good". With all of this high class but still not as good as the old stuff (Zahak's vs. E.Body?) equipment coming out, it makes me wonder if they actually meant to make stuff that good before.

[Max™]

You know, this gear is awesome, a lot of it is better than RotZ stuff, but did you ever notice how SE has consistently avoided releasing gear that can replace it?

I almost wonder if they're all sitting there like "Shit, we didn't mean for Ridills to be THAT good, let's buff the hell out of 2hers and obsolete them!". With all of this high class but still not as good as the old stuff (Zahak's + Hachiryu with macro swaps vs. E.Body?) equipment coming out, it makes me wonder if they actually meant to make stuff that good before.

[Alistaire]

Has any BLU cast Self-Destruct on Chamrosh yet?

[Snapples]

Has any BLU cast Self-Destruct on Chamrosh yet?

I hope you arent serious.

[Kkel]

Has any BLU cast Self-Destruct on Chamrosh yet?

I hope you arent serious.

In 10 more Zeni i'll let you know how this goes. I want to fight this mob just to try it, the prospect is hilarious.

[mdkuser]

on Alkalurops:

so much bs talk and 0 testing, stfu until someone actually tries it out.

if it's not just as good or better than HQ staves, it's damn near close. i will be testing tomorrow afternoon in this manner:

200 sleep II casts on Phasma in mount zhayolm.

100 will be cast with Alkalurops only
100 will be cast with Pluto's staff and mahatma slops only
slops +8 INT balance the +10 on Alka vs Pluto's +2

tests will not be run on Darksday or Lightsday or under either weather condition, obviously.

this will only be a preliminary trial but it should give me a basic comparison to see if it's worth testing further.

the INT doesnt need to be balanced.. its part of the bonus that comes with the staff and should be considered when testing.

I am testing m.accuracy +20 vs. the alleged 15% bonus on HQ staff. I don't care right now about potency. That is a different subject altogether. If I find that the HQ staff performs only marginally better accuracy-wise than Alkalurops I will then be glad to take into account the [significant] potency bonus that Alka gives. However until then I will not have my test be compromised by subjective factors.

edit: It's also notable we're dealing with Sleep II and not something like Paralyze here, which has a direct stat-potency enhancement. Duration of sleep is not the same as proc rate of a paralyze or % of a slow. So again, different types of testing.

What job will you test with? phasma don't seem to resist sleeps at all (and they are even matches- tough). Try puddings, they resist my BLM 50% of the time at 290ish skill.

Pchan posted some basic tests he did sleeping and nuking puddings, with various INT/skill/macc setups to compare the benefit of each.

[Jodwahh]

never tried gravity, in hindsight probably shoulda tested it. bind landed easy for full duration the 10? times i cast it

Probably would work though

Gravity stuck well at the start but (like most of these new nms apparantly) it builds a resistance pretty fast. You should be able to pull it to that tower pretty easily before it begins to resist though.

[Lordwafik]

does it deagg at all? I'd hate to waste that zeni finding it out the hard way, wondering if anyone's experienced a deagg running it back.

[Ahnuld]

Cerb/Khim drops 5 items so ... 1 more item from Hydra. It should be D44 Lv 75 BLU sword.

Lambton Worm drops that Fragglerock sword.

[Alistaire]

Has any BLU cast Self-Destruct on Chamrosh yet?

I hope you arent serious.

And why would you hope that? Are you familiar with how BLU Self-Destruct works? After casting it puts the BLU at 1 HP and weakened state. It's not exactly a ridiculous idea that it might do the same to this mob, various other tier 1 and even tier 2 ZNMs are either duoable or close. With this mob and its crappy loot pool I wouldn't be surprised if they made it that easy. It still wouldn't be worth the zeni unless you had no way of killing the other 2 in the bracket.

Should have other people stand out of range though, despite its lack of apparent blue magic skill, if it went unresisted that Self-Destruct would do 1/2? or some # like that of its current HP.

[Jodwahh]

does it deagg at all? I'd hate to waste that zeni finding it out the hard way, wondering if anyone's experienced a deagg running it back.

It was weird when I was pulling it to the tower, the first 2 attempts at pulling there ended with a deagg and it moved reaaaally slowly back to the tower (walk 10 units, stop, walk 10, stop etc etc), however the third pull it didnt deaggro at all all the way there.

[Wulfgang]

With all of this high class but still not as good as the old stuff (Zahak's vs. E.Body?) equipment coming out

While this is typically the trend, this update broke the mold in some respects. Hachiryu Haramaki, Aurum Sabatons, Hachiryu Haidate, Ancient Torque, and some other pieces are at the top of the heap for at least some / most of the jobs that can equip them. Given, they are not easy to obtain, but neither is E. Body.

Having finished up our last set of tier III's last night (Cerb path), I was thinking back on some of the tougher fights. Khromasoul is definitely up there as a pain in the ass, at least for a sub-10 member group, when he summoned the Hammer-go-Round helpers things went nuts. I wonder what everyone else has thought is the toughest fight thus far. I find the Tier IV's infinitely easier than some of the Tier III's. Fond memories of Nuhn's seismic tale hitting us for 3100+ damage...

[Virtuous Saint]

on Alkalurops:

so much bs talk and 0 testing, stfu until someone actually tries it out.

if it's not just as good or better than HQ staves, it's damn near close. i will be testing tomorrow afternoon in this manner:

200 sleep II casts on Phasma in mount zhayolm.

100 will be cast with Alkalurops only
100 will be cast with Pluto's staff and mahatma slops only
slops +8 INT balance the +10 on Alka vs Pluto's +2

tests will not be run on Darksday or Lightsday or under either weather condition, obviously.

this will only be a preliminary trial but it should give me a basic comparison to see if it's worth testing further.

the INT doesnt need to be balanced.. its part of the bonus that comes with the staff and should be considered when testing.

I am testing m.accuracy +20 vs. the alleged 15% bonus on HQ staff. I don't care right now about potency. That is a different subject altogether. If I find that the HQ staff performs only marginally better accuracy-wise than Alkalurops I will then be glad to take into account the [significant] potency bonus that Alka gives. However until then I will not have my test be compromised by subjective factors.

edit: It's also notable we're dealing with Sleep II and not something like Paralyze here, which has a direct stat-potency enhancement. Duration of sleep is not the same as proc rate of a paralyze or % of a slow. So again, different types of testing.

INT+10 would also add to the staff's magic acc, to place +8 INT onto the pluto's staff you are disregarding the fact that you gain bonus acc from the INT and MND bonus you get with the staff over Pluto's, this test should be done without mahatma slops, just pluto vs. alaklupos(or however ir is spelled). You don't want them to be equal in INT when testing, as this makes Pluto staff cheating in the test because when fully geared the Alakaropos will also have the mahatma slops giving another +8INT >>>> this accounts for a small amount of mag acc boost.

[chapstick]

With all of this high class but still not as good as the old stuff (Zahak's vs. E.Body?) equipment coming out

While this is typically the trend, this update broke the mold in some respects. Hachiryu Haramaki, Aurum Sabatons, Hachiryu Haidate, Ancient Torque, and some other pieces are at the top of the heap for at least some / most of the jobs that can equip them. Given, they are not easy to obtain, but neither is E. Body.

Having finished up our last set of tier III's last night (Cerb path), I was thinking back on some of the tougher fights. Khromasoul is definitely up there as a pain in the ass, at least for a sub-10 member group, when he summoned the Hammer-go-Round helpers things went nuts. I wonder what everyone else has thought is the toughest fight thus far. I find the Tier IV's infinitely easier than some of the Tier III's. Fond memories of Nuhn's seismic tale hitting us for 3100+ damage...

We had a little difficulty with Nuhn's TP spam too. I dunno which T3 I'd consider toughest yet though. For Khromasoul, when he summoned the hammer guys, things went REALLY bad. We basically stopped all damage and people were dying and raising for a while, letting Khromasoul heal himself from 20 -> 45% or so. Some things I noticed though people might find helpful. It popped 2(3 maybe) sets of RDM trolls, then 2 sets of DRK trolls, and then it started summoning the hammer-go-rounds (2 out at all times). After the first set of hammers died, i noticed Khromasoul's weapon broke, and he just sat there not meleeing at all. The tanks after that could easily just sit there and not worry about dying.

Also, after a few deaths from nearly all the blms and melees from trying to deal with the hammer's, we decided to try zoning them repeatedly. We were camped at the wamouracampa's, so there was a zone to halvung behind us. The first few times, they'd just come back and rape everyone after they were zoned, but eventually they started just depopping after being zoned. We don't know if it's supposed to be like that, but it sure saved our asses. It made me think that if you have one dedicated puller and zoner for the pops, that he'd be pretty manageable with 6 or so people.

[Quixon]

We had 12 people go to Nuhn not sure if that's way out of the realm of how many people you guys are bringing to these fights.


It was extremely easy. The only TP move he did was the one were he leaves you with 1 HP. He did this more and more frequently as he got lower in HP. It goes through shadows but doesn't wipe them, so even being left with 1 HP isn't that big of a deal. The problem is tanks were having a tough time holding on to hate b/c of the massive damage they were taking for the move.

[chapstick]

*shrug* for a while it was no problem with um.. 15 i think? it only used deathgnash like 3 times total for us. the problem was our huge melee to mage ratio, and it was spamming virus/slow/silence on our tanks(pld) and we just couldn't keep up with it (viruna is like... 50 mp). eventually we decided to just kite it and finish it off. It definitely slowed down using TP then.

[FailureMidgard]

on Alkalurops:

so much bs talk and 0 testing, stfu until someone actually tries it out.

if it's not just as good or better than HQ staves, it's damn near close. i will be testing tomorrow afternoon in this manner:

200 sleep II casts on Phasma in mount zhayolm.

100 will be cast with Alkalurops only
100 will be cast with Pluto's staff and mahatma slops only
slops +8 INT balance the +10 on Alka vs Pluto's +2

tests will not be run on Darksday or Lightsday or under either weather condition, obviously.

this will only be a preliminary trial but it should give me a basic comparison to see if it's worth testing further.

the INT doesnt need to be balanced.. its part of the bonus that comes with the staff and should be considered when testing.

I am testing m.accuracy +20 vs. the alleged 15% bonus on HQ staff. I don't care right now about potency. That is a different subject altogether. If I find that the HQ staff performs only marginally better accuracy-wise than Alkalurops I will then be glad to take into account the [significant] potency bonus that Alka gives. However until then I will not have my test be compromised by subjective factors.

edit: It's also notable we're dealing with Sleep II and not something like Paralyze here, which has a direct stat-potency enhancement. Duration of sleep is not the same as proc rate of a paralyze or % of a slow. So again, different types of testing.

INT+10 would also add to the staff's magic acc, to place +8 INT onto the pluto's staff you are disregarding the fact that you gain bonus acc from the INT and MND bonus you get with the staff over Pluto's, this test should be done without mahatma slops, just pluto vs. alaklupos(or however ir is spelled). You don't want them to be equal in INT when testing, as this makes Pluto staff cheating in the test because when fully geared the Alakaropos will also have the mahatma slops giving another +8INT >>>> this accounts for a small amount of mag acc boost.

Depends if you want the test to be "with no gear, which one will land more debuffs" or if you just want to nail down the hidden effect. Identifying a numerical value (or close approximation) for the hidden effect is more useful IMO than the test you are suggesting.

Run X tests with no weapon equipped (but a +2 int ring) then with Pluto's equipped. Then start adding magic accuracy to a setup with no Pluto's (try to use pieces with no int at all, there's quite a few...keep the 2 int ring on) until you get similar results to the Pluto's test. Then add in some random amount of int to all 3 sets and repeat the test (need to do this to test if its a static increase or a percentage based increase).

After you have information as to what the passive for Pluto's adds, you can much more precisely decide which is better from a theoretical standpoint. And it really does need to be done twice, once while naked, and once with a decent boost to stats/skills. If it's percentage based, like the damage boost is, it will scale better with gear than a static magic accuracy bonus, and even if the naked test shows the new one winning, that may not be true with even a cheap AH bought set.

[eva00r]

is bomber rat sleepable/gravityable/bindable?