Dorje math (BLM advice needed)

[Kirbyprime]

I'm going to prepare myself to be burned here, but want to make sure.

The staff is 10 int, 10md, 20m.acc.

According to the wiki, it is "assumed" that every 1 point of skill pre 200 is equiv to 1m.acc. Given that BLMs and RDMs and probably other mages have over 200 enfeebling anyways. Wouldn't the 15% assumed m.acc from HQ elemental staves be better than the new staff?

[Spekkio]

I'm going to prepare myself to be burned here, but want to make sure.

The staff is 10 int, 10md, 20m.acc.

According to the wiki, it is "assumed" that every 1 point of skill pre 200 is equiv to 1m.acc. Given that BLMs and RDMs and probably other mages have over 200 enfeebling anyways. Wouldn't the 15% assumed m.acc from HQ elemental staves be better than the new staff?

int and mnd have been stated to have an impact on macc. even beyond that, this staff also adds both int and mnd, key stats for debuffs. by using this, you can more readily hit the next tier on ele enfeebles, push slow higher, or increase para's potency while still maintaining the accuracy one would get from elemental staves. even if the macc is slightly lower than HQ elemental staves, the net output will be higher.

[Kerberoz]

I'm going to prepare myself to be burned here, but want to make sure.

The staff is 10 int, 10md, 20m.acc.

According to the wiki, it is "assumed" that every 1 point of skill pre 200 is equiv to 1m.acc. Given that BLMs and RDMs and probably other mages have over 200 enfeebling anyways. Wouldn't the 15% assumed m.acc from HQ elemental staves be better than the new staff?

int and mnd have been stated to have an impact on macc. even beyond that, this staff also adds both int and mnd, key stats for debuffs. by using this, you can more readily hit the next tier on ele enfeebles, push slow higher, or increase para's potency while still maintaining the accuracy one would get from elemental staves. even if the macc is slightly lower than HQ elemental staves, the net output will be higher.

Math or it didn't happen.

Ele enfeebles, sure, but I really doubt 10 int/mnd + 20 m.acc > +15% m.acc on normal enfeebles.

[Octavious]

I end up using Mythic+1/Num+1 enfeebling and if needed I swap on the HQ stave to land the spell. Usually it's not incredibly difficult to land enfeebles so I can stick with my wand since both enfeebling skill merits, accuracy JS merits, and tier II merits give accuracy. Hardest part is that i'm a taru :'( sad panda for low MND (but high INT on BLM RAWR).

I think it'd be interesting to try the new weapon out, i'd love if I could use staves+grips, instead of staves+wands+grips+shields.... @.@

[shaddix]

Well the INT/MND+10 MAcc+20 will be best for enfeebles now by far.

I was under the impression the staves were better than 15 macc , similar to how it's 15% increase to total damage, and not 15 mab.

Lol I was making a, whatever the word I am trying to think of. I was trying to say that, since staves are not +15mab, and are +15% increase to total damage, for nukes yes, I was under the impression that for enfeebles, the effect is similar. As in not +15 magic accuracy. But +15% to overall accuracy, or something along those lines. As in it does the same thing for enfeebs as it does for nukes, meaning I always thought it was a greater increase than 15 to a stat.

[Damane]

Question, for SCH do you think this would be worth the effort? We have less m.att bonus gear available to us, and many of our nuking sets consist of INT and not so much from M.ATT. Also being /RDM most of the time we only get access to m.att bonus 1.

definitly not for SCH good, our lower elemental skill allready forces us to go with HQ ele staves, we can need all the m.acc we can get, especially for HNM fights.

[Repairs]

Other wiki has Dorje listed as club not staff?

DMG:42 Delay:402 - Dorje

[Spekkio]

I'm going to prepare myself to be burned here, but want to make sure.

The staff is 10 int, 10md, 20m.acc.

According to the wiki, it is "assumed" that every 1 point of skill pre 200 is equiv to 1m.acc. Given that BLMs and RDMs and probably other mages have over 200 enfeebling anyways. Wouldn't the 15% assumed m.acc from HQ elemental staves be better than the new staff?

int and mnd have been stated to have an impact on macc. even beyond that, this staff also adds both int and mnd, key stats for debuffs. by using this, you can more readily hit the next tier on ele enfeebles, push slow higher, or increase para's potency while still maintaining the accuracy one would get from elemental staves. even if the macc is slightly lower than HQ elemental staves, the net output will be higher.

Math or it didn't happen.

Ele enfeebles, sure, but I really doubt 10 int/mnd + 20 m.acc > +15% m.acc on normal enfeebles.

true enough. i shouldn't say will but instead may be higher. we really don't know enough about macc yet to really define an accurate relationship between them. just going to have to try it out empirically. still, for targets like chariots that don't resist slow that badly, this may be an attractive tool for pushing the potency higher, but as you say, there's no way to state one way or the other till we get one and can do some tests. even then it's still situational, as all gear is in this game.

[SephYuyX]

Aside from Dorje, it looks like we have a new factor in our nukes now; Magical Critical Hit.

[reccaa]

Yo,

There are Einherjar pieces with huge Magic Accuracy bonuses, which might make using Dorje applicable.

It is a club so there is the possiblity of equipping a shield.

Also /nin & dual wield a potential to new realms? So far the discussion has been BLM-biased. And we are not sure yet if this item is rare, imagine dual-wielding it?

I believe it has its own applications where Magic Accuracy is not a big deal or can be supplemented with food/other gear pieces.

Also, using this through MB with its higher MA bonus might be an attractive choice.

In any case, it is worth experimenting, and without testing (hidden stats?), I don't think it is wise to discard it as a serious item.

On another note, I second Spekkio. The staff with +10 INT & MND with +20 MA is a must get for any RDM. My mouth is watering :O~~ It will be much better than using the +9 INT/MND club with +3 shield as you'll get almost the same amount of INT & MND with an icing of 20+ Magic Accuracy which is huge.
I'd use this baby for slow & paralyze especially where sticking them is not a big deal (within 1-2 tries). From the numbers I'd expect the MA bonus are close to each other on elemental staves & the new staff... but, without testing it is hard to say.

[Suiram]

Ele enfeebles, sure, but I really doubt 10 int/mnd + 20 m.acc > +15% m.acc on normal enfeebles.

I would agree with you if it was known that it was necessarily Macc+15%. Since the Macc bonus from elemental staves have never been tested beyond enough just to demonstrate that there is some bonus, we don't know that it is +10/15% like the damage bonus, it could be Hidden: Macc+10/15 in which case the new one would clearly be better.

I guess the answer would be Macc tests with No staff and fixed INT, vs. HQ staff with the same INT vs. Macc+15 from gear with the same INT. Or else a series of tests directly comparing that new staff against HQ staves once someone obtains it.

[Turambar]

I doubt the Dorje is a club for 2 reasons: First, it has 402 delay, the same as more than half of the game's Staves. Second, it seems like it would be horribly overpowered to have a +25 MAB club which could be paired with the new +5 MAB shield (or dual wielded, although things like that would almost certainly be tagged Rare).

[reccaa]

You are right, it is a staff.

And it might be part of the new relics...

If that was the case, would they actually make it a relic and not being so great >_>;?

Makes you wonder...

[Feielle]

There are Einherjar pieces with huge Magic Accuracy bonuses, which might make using Dorje applicable.

It is a club so there is the possiblity of equipping a shield.

Also /nin & dual wield a potential to new realms? So far the discussion has been BLM-biased. And we are not sure yet if this item is rare, imagine dual-wielding it?

First, those Einherjar pieces only add to the MAB bonus of equipment available outside of the weapon slot, so the elemental stave variable would increase that damage further. No matter what you add to the initial stat, if it isn't an increase in the main or sub weapon slot, you're out of luck.

Assuming it is a club (its not, but for argument's sake

Math taken from my previous MAB set-up (genie, novio, moldy, ugg pendant, yigit, z mitts, COR, merits)

HQ Stave and current MAB set up:
10 x 2.02 x 1.15 = 23.23

NQ Stave and current MAB set-up
10 x 2.02 x 1.10 = 22.22

Dorje Club (MAB+25), Seveneyes (MAB+7) and current MAB set-up with /NIN (yes, i know /NIN has some slight INT differences, but lets forget that for the moment, shall we?)
10 x 2.34 x 1 = 23.40

In this instance it would outperform HQ Staves, but you would lose the 15% MACC.

Of course, all of this is kind of pointless, since its a staff. Looks like this: http://bluegartr.com/JuneUpdate/img/item/18594.png

Essentially, in order to overcome ele staves on a practical level, we need MAB+32 (to break even) or above. This number will increase as the rest of your MAB gear increases. Essentially, the better the rest of your gear is, the harder it becomes to out-do an elemental staff.

Looks like we're stuck with 'em for life.

[Kaeko]

I kind of want the MACC staff just because I use Kirin's Pole for Stoneskin.

This item saves me an inventory slot by doubling for Stoneskin macro and the -10 HP is perfect for saving an item slot for Sorc Ring Proc macro in conjunction with the new Ixion Cape and Witch Sash (which removes the -20HP from nuking in Penitent's Rope).

Complicated, but good because it saves me a slot.

MACC and such really don't care... this stat is so hard to test how it works.

[Terrance]

On another note, I second Spekkio. The staff with +10 INT & MND with +20 MA is a must get for any RDM. My mouth is watering :O~~ It will be much better than using the +9 INT/MND club with +3 shield as you'll get almost the same amount of INT & MND with an icing of 20+ Magic Accuracy which is huge.

No, it's not huge. If you can't land your enfeebles already without that +20 magic accuracy, then the accuracy won't be helpful. RDM should have no problem landing enfeebles at 75 except on the toughest mobs, and +20 magic accuracy will not noticeably help your land rate on Khim. You're basically trading 2 or 3 MND for nothing. For non-stat based enfeebles like sleep you'll want an elemental staff instead.

[nivlac]

wait ele.staffs have mab , what? /em crawls back in the wall space.

[pchan]

No, it's not huge. If you can't land your enfeebles already without that +20 magic accuracy, then the accuracy won't be helpful. RDM should have no problem landing enfeebles at 75 except on the toughest mobs, and +20 magic accuracy will not noticeably help your land rate on Khim. You're basically trading 2 or 3 MND for nothing. For non-stat based enfeebles like sleep you'll want an elemental staff instead.

Wait what are you kidding me ? 20 mac is pretty much the same as what 15% magic accuracy would give you, and I'm not even counting the accuracy bonus granted from the 10 INT/MND stats that are on the weapon. So basically you get the same accuracy, 10 more mnd, and you think it sucks o;o. I did some Magic Accuracy tests a while ago sleeping flans (w/o staff) :

with +12 Magic accuracy the success rate went 47.7% > 56.5% (500 sleeps)
with +22 INT, 47.7% > 54.4

Which means roughly +2 mac = 1.5% accuracy, aka +20 mac=+15% acc
and +2 INT=+0.6%, aka +10 INT= +3% acc

So this weapon would give you +18% acc, as well as 10 mnd/int. Obviously it's better than HQ staff.

[Shalafi]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly

Use Dorje if you have >35 MAB from gear or in place of NQ Staves.

[Spekkio]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly

Use Dorje if you have >35 MAB from gear or in place of NQ Staves.

if you have less than 35 MAB or if you have NQ staves. since staves give a % boost and that boost is further enhanced by more MAB, when the 25 MAB represents less than 15% of your MAB (counting MAB as 100+traits+gear) the staff will win on damage before MACC is calculated.