Nyzul Relics require Runic Key (100 data wiped)

[Lyramion]

Calculating the fastest and most asshat lucky way to Nyzul rellic:

A) your LS is pimp and you already have chariots odin toau kings

B) you accidently forgot to warp on floor 100 and already have runic key and weapon

C) Totally quit any nyzul or salvage activities and use 50 days on forcing people to help you do all assaults again

D) ???

E) Profit



First Nyzul rellic to come around beginning of August !

[Aymee]

I feel that people arent appreciating the severity of 50,000 items that drop one at a time.

^

I think the math actually does check out..

Its like 1-3 drops per run yes, but the "barriers to entry" is far lower for Salvage than it is for dynamis. True you're getting a whole lot more per run in Dynamis.. but theres a 72hr limit and for the most part, people don't go unless they at least have 18 people attending. Add to this the fact that Dynamis zones are exclusive. And that there are only 10 Dynamis zones, meaning 10 groups at any one time that can access Dynamis.. and this is (shoddy) number crunching only.
Also, each time you enter its 1million gil.

With Salvage, its 1 a day, you can go with as few as 6 people. Theres 4 areas. Each one can be hold 4-5 (i think)instances, so thats already 16-20 groups at any 1 time max. Entry requirements are 1500 AP which doesn't involve gil.. so whatever you get (assuming you keep) is monetary profit. Also, you spend a whole lot less time in Salvage than Dynamis.
If these things drop from gears, I'm sure some groups may start focusing on getting Alexandrite by killing more gears where they don't necessarily have to..

Alexandrite will definitely start off steep, but I have a good feeling that it will start crashing when the market is flooded with them. Not everyone will want to fund a nyzul relic, after all.. and (assuming the 1 out of 4 thing) not everyone will choose this option to complete their relic... It seems small because the distribution is alot wider from the very beginning.. but i trust it will add up to be a close equivalent of dynamis currency. It'll just take a little time.

The math does not check out. At all.
You are absolutely insane if you think that on any server there will ever be 20 groups doing salvage at all times (or ever, for that matter). You are also insane if you think there will be any sort of equal comparison in currency entering the system.

Salvage currency is about 15x more rare than dynamis currency even under the best circumstances (see math below), and nyzul relics about 40x rarer to upgrade (again, see below).

I showed the math on an earlier post... say 500 people a day did salvage (2 groups of 10 entering per hour on average) a day and did nothing but farm gears and each person got 1. This would be a stupidly tedious task and farming process, but meh. This is an estimate based on what people are saying droprates are--a generous estimate since when would you ever do 30 gears in any zone?
Right, so just go with a generous 500 new currency into the system per day. That's 100 days for enough for even 1 new relic, assuming someone can magically collect them all. That would be <4 relic a year, per server.

...

Let's compare to dynamis. I'll estimate that there are 3 groups per day in the standard zones and 1.5/day in the CoP zones. This is probably a bit high for most servers. I'll be generously vague and say you could average anywhere between 200-400 currency per run, given randomness on 100s. Let's use an average of 300 just for simplicity. (6 zones * 3 groups) + (4 zones * 1.5 groups) = 24 dynamis runs per day. 24*300 = 7200 dynamis currency added into the system per day. This is an generous estimation. If you go with the low end and 200 you've got 4800/day and the high end of 9600/day.

500/day vs 7200/day, and 50000 required vs ~17000. 100 days for a nyzul relic and 2.5ish for a dynarelic. This would make nyzul relics theoretically 40x harder to obtain, based on what we understand of the currency thusfar. Even if you doubled the salvage farming and halved the dynamis, it's still 10x ... but seriously, there's never that kind of high population in any of these zones. 4 groups in a salvage group at a time? lol...


Actually, let's take the absolutely absurd preposterous concept that 16 PTs in salvage at all times, so 160 people avg entering every 100min. This would be ~2300 people a day doing salvage, which... just... no, lol. If we go with the 1/person estimate, you're still at 25 days for a single nyzul relic worth of currency dropping. On the other hand, you've still got 2.5ish for a dynarelic. Hell, I'll even be mega-generous on top of quadrupling the number of people who do salvage and half the number of people doing dynamis to put things at 1 dynarelic every 5 days. This is how far you have to twist the numbers to get even numbers of dynamis and salvage currencies dropping.

Conclusion:
Even if all instances of all salvage zones were occupied 100% of the time every day indefinitely, and there were a measly 12 dynamis runs per day on average on your server, dynamis relics would still be 3x 'easier' to get. Under more reasonable assumptions of how many people might do some activities, it's 40x 'easier'.

In other words, the math does not add up.
If the value of salvage currency is ever super high it'll be because it has such a stupidly low droprate, and if it's low it'll be because people understand how impossible it would be to get enough of it.

[Kayos]

There has to be a way to get hundred or even thousand pieces... otherwise this just doesn't make any sense.

[Zosi]

There's no higher-denomination versions of the item in game right now. They only exist as singles.

[Freysi]

Calculating the fastest and most asshat lucky way to Nyzul rellic:

A) your LS is pimp and you already have chariots odin toau kings

B) you accidently forgot to warp on floor 100 and already have runic key and weapon

C) Totally quit any nyzul or salvage activities and use 47 days on forcing people to help you do all assaults again

D) ???

E) Profit



First Nyzul rellic to come on the 25th of July!

[Spira]

my guess for the picture book is that its a drop from the Pandemonium Warden, which is probably the highest tier NM that can be popped under the new Zeni NM sysem...
i think its probably something like 9 > 9 > 9 > 3 > 1... just a guess..
then again you don't have to fight everything from each tier..

seems to me Nyzul relic basically = Tour of Aht Urhgan.

First u need to complete all Toa missions..
Then all assault missions
then kill all 3 ToA Beastmen HNMS
then complete all 4 Salvage areas..
then clear Einherjar once..

Assuming choose 1 of 4.. it requires u to

1. do all assault all over again
2. do einherjar again and again and again
3. do salvage again and again and again, or pay thru ur nose whilst other people do that
4. kill NMs again and again.. assuming theres a tier structure, you'll need to work your way up much...

[Kayos]

There's no higher-denomination versions of the item in game right now. They only exist as singles.

Then this reminds me of the Chewbacca defense.

[Wizerd]

I don't mean to be picky, Aymee, and I do agree with you. But to further your point, you're being very conservative on the Dynamis end, not generous.

Let's compare to dynamis. I'll estimate that there are 3 groups per day in the standard zones and 1.5/day in the CoP zones. This is probably a bit high for most servers.

This is a common misconception, because most people only take into account runs that happen while they're awake. On any given server, there are JP groups that go as well, and there tends to be more of them than you'd think. I would estimate 6 groups per day in standard zones and 2 in CoP zones (from what I've seen, the JPs hardly ever do CoP?).

This is probably a bit low when you take into account the volume of JP players who do Dynamis on their weekends. And I'm basing this off of Remora, where our JP population isn't very overwhelming to say the least. This is also an average over the whole week, since days like Monday or Thursday may have less groups due to most going on some combination of weekday/weekend.

I'll be generously vague and say you could average anywhere between 200-400 currency per run, given randomness on 100s. Let's use an average of 300 just for simplicity. (6 zones * 3 groups) + (4 zones * 1.5 groups) = 24 dynamis runs per day. 24*300 = 7200 dynamis currency added into the system per day. This is an generous estimation. If you go with the low end and 200 you've got 4800/day and the high end of 9600/day.

I suppose an average of 300 for a mediocre shell might be ok. Personally, my shell's average currently is 411 per run, taking into account every zone, with 1/4 Xarcabard, and a mix and match rotation of the rest, including CoP. And we only go with 20-25 people, right now. Even a new group can reach 350/run if they send a THF on the statues, but since a lot of groups don't, I'll concede and say 300 is fair. I would doubt it's anywhere close to 200 though, since for the most part we're talking about groups that go regularly.


If you take this into account, then Nyzul relics are just that much worse than Dynamis ones, assuming Alexandrites are involved.

Personally, I'm hoping/thinking there's something that drops off Salvage bosses to assist in the collection of these. I think there's been about 6-7 reported boss kills so far with no extra drops? So if the drop rate is, say, 1/10 or so, then I'd say the item would have to be worth about 500 to even things out. Shot in the dark random numbers there, of course.

[Not Kuno]

SE said that they wanted zilart relics to be the best weapons, so why are these just as hard/harder to get?

[Hyan]

SE said that they wanted zilart relics to be the best weapons, so why are these just as hard/harder to get?

hardly

[Katlan]

[quote=ronin sparthos]

But why have a unique skin weapon if they arent meant to be completed yet? and why have the relic weaponskills in the game if it wasnt meant to be completed?

and of course... how is this easier than ROTZ relics SE?

have you tried to do a rotz relic?

Besides the obvious upfront money costs how is this easier? For Zilart relic all you need is the currency, the frag and the attestation.

When money is involved, you have infinite ways of going about getting your relic - with this from what i read you have to clear all of nyzul, have clear all assaults, have to get 50000 alexandrite, have log all your assaults over again, have get a 100k ichor item and down NMs that average players arent going to kill. (I thought the whole point of this was an easier system with a weaker relic?)

Im not going to knock the system yet, but this seems to be a long and protracted affair and im just asking how this is 'easier' - easier as in simpler than zilart relic, which SE said this would be.[/quote:3c4cpa99]

Kinda a light hearted statement... but to the person who acquires a ToA relic... you can honestly say: I beat FFXI: ToA [chapter] haha

Nobody could make that kinda of statement w/RoTZ relic weapon since there was still other stuff to acquire in dynamis, but to get the ToA relic weapon you pretty much have to have done every facet of ToA. You better be able to DW these two relics weapons (if they are both one-handed). And they prolly haven't given these weapons stats yet since it will be impossible for anybody to acquire everything before the next update [or longer?]

[Lyramion]

SE said that they wanted zilart relics to be the best weapons, so why are these just as hard/harder to get?

hardly

It would be hard if you had to do everything listed not just one - people remember the TOAU access quest? Where you were able to chose out of a plethora of ways to complete? This is similar.

I think it´s something every ambitioned player can do with a good LS. I imagine people gonna farm "Captain Redux" statics of 6 ppl just plowing thru all assaults again to complete their 6 weapons. That´s a very doable approach.



At THIS point in time the requirments may seem hugh to some. But lets say... 6 months after today we gonna have a totally different look on it. People will have spammed more einherjar, aimed for toau kings, did more nyzul etc. Many people will be like halfway there with the hardcore players being done already. I´d go as far as to say - in 1 year the Nyzul Rellic will be pretty common while the hardcore players will have 2 weapons complete.

[Ashira]

Frankly, I think this is their sneaky way of saying "You asses, we give you content and you don't even do it.. now if you want the new pretty pretty, you have to do it."

I mean, we all know there are people out there that don't do Assault and aren't above a mid-ranking... still; barely do Salvage, barely do anything in Nyzul, don't do Einherjar (though that event is more limiting than the others, due to numbers really needed)... but these people still bitch about having nothing to do.

Dynamis doesn't require completion of any sort - I can imagine how funny it would have been way back if there was a drop off Dynamis Lord required to upgrade a relic... even now there are shells that don't fight him/don't win ever, though he's hardly the challenge he used to be. No requirement in having Zilart expansion finished, just have to have gotten past Rank 5 and gotten Xarcabard access.

I dunno, I still think this will be more of a "fun" upgrade, it's more proactive, than doing a Dynamis relic. The Alexandrite we'll have to wait and see on... whether the number required is a mistake, if there's going to be future/more availability, or if it's a choice factor, not all four things required. If not, well, then we plug away at it and stop bitching. Once upon a time people thought the Dynamis money requirements was completely stupid and insane too, especially before people cleared full zones and such in Dynamis and you weren't getting 250+ coins a run, but something more like 100.

[Aksannyi]

Dynamis doesn't require completion of any sort - I can imagine how funny it would have been way back if there was a drop off Dynamis Lord required to upgrade a relic... even now there are shells that don't fight him/don't win ever, though he's hardly the challenge he used to be. No requirement in having Zilart expansion finished, just have to have gotten past Rank 5 and gotten Xarcabard access.

I dunno, I still think this will be more of a "fun" upgrade, it's more proactive, than doing a Dynamis relic.

Exactly my thoughts. This a goal I can actually work towards and enjoy it. And not only am I working toward my sweet relic, but I'll also be making progress on Salvage sets and Nyzul equip sets, as well. The entire thing is win in my book.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Maybe when you fight Alexander in the last TOAU mission he drops Alexandrite Shards

[Ehran]

Frankly, I think this is their sneaky way of saying "You asses, we give you content and you don't even do it.. now if you want the new pretty pretty, you have to do it."

I mean, we all know there are people out there that don't do Assault and aren't above a mid-ranking... still; barely do Salvage, barely do anything in Nyzul, don't do Einherjar (though that event is more limiting than the others, due to numbers really needed)... but these people still bitch about having nothing to do.

I don't agree with this at all.

I've done several of the requirements so far. I've cleared Nyzul 1-100 four different times, on three different Runic Discs, sadly none of those discs have been my own. I've killed Salvage bosses. I've gotten captain rank. I've cleared wings in Einherjar. However, due to the amounts involved, I haven't done any of these things nearly enough. I would say I'm no where close to getting the Nyzul Relic completed.

These requirements don't really seem like an "up yours" so much as they seem to be a way to keep people interested in older, worthwhile content.

I will say though, that with the requirements set up as they stand now, I see this as FAR less daunting than completing a Zilart relic. The only problem I really forsee is running from the almighty, when I swore to Jesus Chirst that I would never go back and do that bull shit Supplies Recovery assault ever again after clearing it the first time.

I'll never understand the people who complain about having nothing to do.

[Aksannyi]

I'll never understand the people who complain about having nothing to do.

Shit ... I have SO MUCH to do, that I sit around complaining about the fact that I can't decide what to do.

[SchuldigGER]

IF there are 3 different ways to finish your ToAU relic there might also be a chance that different Stats might be added to your relic when finishing it it with different items...

but that would be too awesome for SE

[Arthars]

maybe already stated but i didnt check previous post.............

the "book" cost 150,000 tokens from nyzul isle

[Xanthe]

maybe already stated but i didnt check previous post.............

the "book" cost 150,000 tokens from nyzul isle

Don't think anyone mentioned that yet. Nice find.

[edit]
Assuming every single one of the QQ's demands must be met, having to make multiple runs up to the top for every person that wants a weapon/key item suddenly doesn't seem quite as bad now. It would almost make more sense for Nyzule groups intent on upgrading weapons to zerg 1-100 multiple times once they're content on 20-80 drops instead of farming 100s with the warp trick. Did you happen to notice if the book was rare and/or exclusive?