Footwork - New MNK JA info

[aurik]

At least pre-footwork, kick attacks had wrank of 0.

[Raithen]

Ok so assuming weapon rank of feet is still 0 during Kick Attacks, that would mean Motenten's last sentence should be correct.

So total damage with Dunes would be 3 + 32 (skill) + 20 (Footwork) + 30 (Dunes) + [0..8]fStr = 85 + [0..8]fStr. I'll probably assume this is the proper formula until someone can figure out the fStr issue.

In regard to the Brutal earring giving DA+10% I can test again and post some concrete numbers.

[evilpaul]

Couldn't the apparent DMG+ from Footwork just be that it's:

3 + (Skill / 5.5) + KickBoots = new DMG

While Footwork's active? That's how I guessed they'd make it work, and the numbers look like they might match up with it?

[Motenten]

Figure a 0.18 multiplier since normal H2H also uses a 2-decimal-place multiplier (0.11). In that case, max H2H skill would give 32+3 normally and 52+3 with Footwork. With 290 skill (7 merits) it would be 31+3 normally and 52+3 with Footwork (ie: Footwork should cap 1 dmg higher than normal melee with Destroyers). With capped merits and Faith Torque it should be 32+3 normally and 53+3 with Footwork (again, +1 dmg with Footwork).

If either of those is the case then we can assume it uses the alternate multiplier. If neither is the case then it's more probable that it's a +20 dmg.

Actually there's another test that could differentiate them. At level 65 when you get the ability, base damage should be 24+3. If Footwork is +20 it should give 44+3. If Footwork is a higher skill multiplier then it should give 40+3. That's enough of a difference that it should be easily noticeable and verifiable.

The one that would probably be quickest (in terms of finding someone who could test it) would likely be to see if the Faith Torque increases your max crit while using Footwork above 198. No matter what multiplier is used (without restriction to 2 decimal places) in order to get 52+3 normally, it -must- increase base damage to 53+3 when using the Torque, and thus a max crit potential of 201.

[evilpaul]

168 to 197 w/o any H2H weapon equipped and 299 skill from torque/merits on Huge Hornets outside Bastok. 171 to 198 w/o Torque on.

So, just DMG+20 then I guess? At least at 75 anyway?I only massacred about ~30 bees, so it wasn't a huge sample though.

[Vyvian]

I did another short test for footwork, parsed 2 fights on each:
I didn't find the double kick rate noticeably higher on any boots, in fact it was very low for all 3 tests.
The parser removes critical hits from the high/low/average, so I list that seperately
----

Using Denali Gamashes (something to use as a base, no effect on kick damage or rate)
1st bird: 147 high, 90 low, average hit 120.77
2nd Bird: 141 high, 90 low, average hit 114.19
Crits ranged from 156-175~

----

Using Hakke Habaki, level 71 off of Lil' Apkallu
1st bird: 151 high, 109 low, average hit 127.5
2nd bird: 156 high, 100 low, average hit 125.83
Crits ranged from 192 to 226~

----

Using Dune Boots
1st bird: 216 high, 140 low, average hit 181.06
2nd bird: 212 high, 143 low, average hit 178.92
Crits ranged from 240-276~

----

It seems like now the new kick boots have been relegated to the status of a substitute if you don't have Dune boots. Then again, the lower level ones, level 50, level 60, maybe 68 might still be worth using, but by 71, you could've gotten dune boots already.

[Sanjiyan]

The above result both makes me happy and sad.

Happy because dune boots are still the best damage-wise (too bad so sad for those that tossed it), but sad because I was hoping habakis increased rate noticeably so I can TP in them while using footwork full time, and also help make footwork suck less. I wanted to get a pair of hakke habaki but now unless further tests quantify and show that the habakis are usable and useful, I'll stick to fumas and only situational use of footwork + dune boots.

[Builttolast]

I was thinking the same thing. If the frequency of kicks is greatly improved with the new +kick attacks boots then they would make great TP boots, and swapping dune boots in for WS damage. Is there a difference between the level 71 boots and the level 68?

[Kryton]

I do not know if anyone caught it, but according to the recent Milkman interview linked below, Mitsutoshi Gondai (FFXI job planner) stated:

MG: First of all, in regards to the kick attacks setting, by adding this it's basically showing a new side of Monks; giving them new options, giving them the option to change their fighting style depending on the monster so that their party members aren't getting upset at them for stealing all the hate because they're hitting too fast. It'll slow down their attacks, so they won't get as much hate there.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35136&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Maybe Footwork is not supposed to be used for improved damage at all or they changed their mind concerning the job ability last minute. Maybe it is something to gimp us for a small amount of time so that we may not get too much hate as it states above.

But I may be wrong.

~Kryton
Sylph

[miokomioko]

I just saw it as Monks trading their quick meleeing (DoT) for more frequent and slightly larger WS (spike) damage... which, to me, is what it appears to be trying to accomplish. Whether it actually balances out in the long run for things like merit parties is another thing. However it's definitely a necessary JA for a lot HNMs, if a Monk ends up in the alliance somehow.

[Merkury]

This works really well for Salvage Boss tanking now that recast timers not effected. Ive tanked two so far and you still do good damage and dont feed nearly as much TP it seems.

[Frisk]

[LD]

At no point did I ever think that a Kick attacks JA would be for anything other than allowing better DOT on high def/level mobs and possibly improved TP management. Trying to get it to work in merits and complaining that it doesn't work as well as punches on the stuff MNK doesn't need help with is forgetting why we needed it in the first place. Though, now that I think about it, I'm sure it's being used more as a damage booster rather than a key to greater adaptability (like Formless Strikes before it) because when normally put in Footwork's niche situation, they'd just switch jobs, and probably still do that. So rather than fool around with the move on the mobs it was actually made for, people are trying to find ways to use it on merit mobs and Chariots. There's no reason we shouldn't use Footwork to the utmost wherever we can, but it can only change the way MNK is seen if people actually use it.

After seeing those DKs on Ixion, I thought Footwork had been proven, but it turns out he's actually pretty squishy, so we need something along the lines of Tiamat to grasp the width and breadth of this ability. I'm sure that's an issue in and of itself, but it has to be done to see if Footwork does what it was made to.

[Charla]

After seeing those DKs on Ixion, I thought Footwork had been proven, but it turns out he's actually pretty squishy...

Ixion doesn't exactly seem squishy to me on smn, so I'm either too used to Khimaira or just not positioning quite right.

[Sanjiyan]

I tried using the new and improved footwork while tanking a chariot boss in salvage today, and I honestly can't say that it's much more ideal than just plan old H2H. Sure it's decent damage, and kicking is pretty fast when I have haste and double march, but often time is of essence. Granted, we don't always reach the boss with only 10min to spare, but if you can kill something faster to give yourself some more room for error, why not? H2H still did better damage, the extra 6% crit from destroyer rocks, and with penance the TP move spam aren't something of concern. Even without penance, 2 MNK melee on a chariot isn't bad.

I just don't know a situation where it's a good trade off to give up damage for subtle blow.... aside for soloing.

The strongest point of the JA right now is just MNK/THF and SATA dragon kick. Other melees have been doing that for years.
Unless you accept SE's idea of the JA being a self gimping tool so MNKs don't steal hate as "the" reason.

[Kimkytaru]

I'm all with Sanjiyan, went mnk/thf yesterday for genbu and Ulli and I wasnt impressed by footwork at all, it feels slow and not really powerfull, sure I can do the same number I do with my sam now but I'm doing 1 ws each 4 mn when I'm doing 4 with sam.

I'm sure it have it's use on some mob, but not really what I was expecting on high def. stuff.

[Burnsy]

While I can sympathize with the salvage situation, time and hate control seem to be factors for those fights, getting cure spammed kinda makes tanking without voke, flash, ninja debuffs, or anything other than an initial boosted chi blast -> Hundred Fists to gain hate on the chariots makes Footwork seem like a lose/lose situation. Genbu, meh, Ulli, ok I'd be miffed and tbh in my short and limited experience with the JA and /thf so far, I'm gonna say its not an even balancer with respect to hasso, or sekka, or the 2h buff in general.

DK was always kind of a disheartening WS, while looking sweet, it never performed half as well as it's 5 and 8 hit WS competition. I just think people haven't figured out how to maximize this JA yet, and we all know SE isnt going to just say: "Hay, lolmnks, to make footwork not kinda suck, do this, wear this, and have these buffs on."

Testing on things like Tiamat, or even Higher Tier Ein bosses would probably be more of a true indication of the stregths of this JA, I think Ixion is just weak to blunt, or the MNK(god im sorry I can't remember your name, it's early) just hit the sweet spot with his gear, sub, and his buffs.

Gotta wonder what the best BRD buffs would be, I've always thought mage haste+2x march was overkill unless you're going straight zerg, and would usually prefer madirgal and minuet or 2x minuet in most HNM situations where I got to melee. But if you're going for the high spike dmg, would you want the single target VIT and STR songs, since both stats mod heavy on DK? These are all things that only time and play are going to answer for each of us. I wouldn't dismiss this JA or the flexibility it gives just yet.

[Kimkytaru]

I really dont think there is much use for it, we'll see on the longuer run but honestly I tried lots of combination yesterday and I was really sad to see the kind of dmg output I was doing. Hitting with feet for 50-80 ish isnt gonna balance the melee hit from GK or Scythe that are around 100-150 on the same mob, then we get tp slower, and we need to wait for some high TP cause wsing at 100 TP wont do good. Na really all in all, mnk never gonna replace a drk/war/sam in endgame (not speaking of zerg fight obviously).

[Raithen]

Hitting with feet for 50-80 ish isnt gonna balance the melee hit from GK or Scythe that are around 100-150 on the same mob, then we get tp slower, and we need to wait for some high TP cause wsing at 100 TP wont do good. Na really all in all, mnk never gonna replace a drk/war/sam in endgame (not speaking of zerg fight obviously).

Dragon Kick at 100% actually has a higher multiplier than YGK and Steel Cyclone at 200%. MNK and SAM wearing equivalent gear has MNK winning very slightly in the stat mod category, even with Hasso on the SAM. The only problem with Footwork and WSing at the moment is even though my MNK's base attack with Footwork is higher than my SAM's base attack, MNK doesn't get the 2-handed pDIF level correction. Accuracy is still an issue for Footwork compared to 2-handed weapons as well. Yesterday I ate sushi on Kirin and used Footwork. With just a COR in the party I would have TP within 30-45 seconds usually and could SATA DK on a tank every minute (stand tank, no zerg -- our LS leader kicked all our bards?). The numbers weren't as impressive as my SAM even though the base D and multiplier of DK is higher, just because Footwork isn't a 2-handed weapon. 800s DK were highs, 700s average, 400s if Chaos Roll was down or rolled shitty. On the other hand you can still do 1200-1500 DK on Byakko.

[karril]

all it would take to make footwork win+1 (in my opinion) is to make it a simple 'now you're a 2handed weapon' switch. Increased acc and atk with level correction and we would be nifty-keen


I dont think they are actually ever going to do that though.