Our dear president Bush's farewell gift

[Bingbong]

Stem cell research

Which has been scientifically proven to cure fuck-all. Spending millions on something we think may work is not the sort of thing governments should be doing.

Children's health insurance

They are doing this in Massachusetts where I currently live, required health insurance for all legal residents. In the first year alone the program has run into an 11% cost overrun of $120+ million dollars... the state is attempting to make up for it by raising the cigarette tax.

requiring lobbying transparency/disclosure

This will be interesting to see, I'm sure there aren't any funny dealings with democratic politicians and lobbyists going on.

energy independence/clean energy

Refusing off-shore domestic drilling helps us gain energy independence how? If you're talking about alternative energy sources, Senator Ted Kennedy [DEMOCRAT] was the biggest opponent of building a wind farm off the Cape Cod coast. His family owns large amounts of beach front land in the area they were targeting. Not to mention for every bit of proof there is that global warming and clean energy are linked, there is proof that nothing man does to the environment effects climate change one bit.

combating voter deception/disenfranchisement

Telling voters from two large states (Florida and Michigan) that their votes only sort of counted in the primary was a good way to combat disenfranchising voters {\sarcasm}
GO GO DNC. <- no I don't mean Dancer either.
Not to mention the largest show of Voter fraud was in the state of Ohio which had a large Democratic turnout before the '04 election.

and trying to get lower costs on prescription drugs through medicare.

More government regulation on consumer goods... try to keep in mind we are supposed to be a republic based on a free market system, not a socialist/communist state that allows some free markets to exist. Government regulation breaks economies, it doesn't fix it, or help anybody out.

Let's also remember the democratic controlled congress whoosed any fixes of the already broken social-security system. And one more Democratic fuck-up... again from my wonderful home state... Taxpayers voted in a deduction in the state income tax, the State congress (80-90% democratic) told the citizens of Mass to shove their vote, and we still 8 years later, have not gotten the reduction in the income tax that we voted on.

BTW, I'm a republican, and could give two shits about gay marriage, abortions, or prayer in school. I don't like my money going to help people to friggin stupid to go out and get a job.
Illegal immigrants suck too, but that's another argument to have.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't like my money going to help people to friggin stupid to go out and get a job.

[Bingbong]

assholery proved by correcting a grammatical error that 98% of normal people make

FIXED

[archibaldcrane]

The only time I ever do that is when people are making grammatical and/or spelling mistakes while simultaneously calling people stupid/telling illegal immigrants to gtfo. It's not "ha cheap shot" - it's "oh the irony".

[Bingbong]

Bulletin: Most people suck when it comes to grammar, doesn't make us less intelligent.
And I fail to see where I said that illegals were stupid. An idiot calling someone else stupid would be ironic.

It's not why I think they should "GTFO" anyway.

[Kuya]

Not that i care very much about the Democrats, but:

Which has been scientifically proven to cure fuck-all. Spending millions on something we think may work is not the sort of thing governments should be doing.

Because banning the private sector from experimenting with stem cell research, partly because of religious reasons, is exactly what the government should be doing.

Refusing off-shore domestic drilling helps us gain energy independence how?

Good point.

If you're talking about alternative energy sources, Senator Ted Kennedy [DEMOCRAT] was the biggest opponent of building a wind farm off the Cape Cod coast. His family owns large amounts of beach front land in the area they were targeting. Not to mention for every bit of proof there is that global warming and clean energy are linked, there is proof that nothing man does to the environment effects climate change one bit.

Irrelevant, aside from making Ted Kennedy a potential hypocrite.

More government regulation on consumer goods... try to keep in mind we are supposed to be a republic based on a free market system, not a socialist/communist state that allows some free markets to exist. Government regulation breaks economies, it doesn't fix it, or help anybody out.

See Stem Cell research, also, do you think inaction was a smart thing to do during the Great Depression, and that the government should do nothing when economic crisis looms? I guess those people who were without food during those times would have magicaly been assisted by the invisible hand and we wouldn't have had dead bodies and mass disease on the streets instead.

I don't like my money going to help people to friggin stupid to go out and get a job.

Question, do you think this statement is ignorent, or do you honestly think that anybody who doesn't have a job is stupid? I guess you really think minimum wage is enough to protect someone.

[Beckwin]

NEOCON TROLL ALERT
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Anyways, this little tidbit of stupid really stuck out to me:

This will be interesting to see, I'm sure there aren't any funny dealings with democratic politicians and lobbyists going on.

So... you don't have any real criticisms of increased transparency and reporting of lobbying, but you just felt like you had to sling some mud at the Democratic party? Or are you completely against politicians/political organizations trying to correct and hold themselves more accountable? Yes to the latter would make a lot of sense if you're a Republican.

[Kyreth]

Amusingly enough, despite the Democrats having a majority in the House and Senate...it's not as if they have carte blanche to put anything through they want. And the legislature knows it, because Bush will veto anything they can't get a two-thirds on. Some things like the farm bill? No problem, vetoproof majority. Anything there's significant arguments between the two parties? Deadlock.

Now, come 2009 if we have a Democrat in the White House AND the Democrats keep a majority? Conservatives will either have plenty of ammunition for a comeback or we may find that Obama and Company are actually going to do something for the country. The realist in me thinks it'll be a good bit of both, though. If McCain wins? He's going to have to be a master of bipartisanship or else we'll only see small improvements in whatever gets done, thanks to the inevitable bitterness of what would be some very sore-loser Democratic types.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The farm bill is a bad example when farmers are making record profits.

Edit: I guess I should say "were", before the flooding.

[Demosthenes11]

McCain is a liberal, he would do well with a liberal congress

[Beckwin]

Do you think George Bush is a liberal?

[Churchill]

In many ways yes.

[sephir]

Kuya, any economist will tell you that during bad times (ie recession or even worse Depression) it is the government's duty to seek some form of expansionary fiscal policy (cut taxes, put unemployed people to work/increase production, and/or return tax money). How do they do this? With many people unemployed find them a way to become useful. Look at the Great Depression for example, the government put unemployed people back to work to build infrastructure for future use while wages were low. This allowed people some form of income, which they would then spend, which then will have businesses begin producing at previous levels again. Of course with the Depression a war occurred, but point still holds.


Government's job in the economy is not to control it, but more of regulating it. Things such as Anti-trust laws were put in place to regulate business because even with the 'invisible hand' in effect, Monopolies can still occur. And Companies such as Standard oil dominated the market entirely and nobody could ever compete. And just because people do not have a job does not mean they are a burden. Even at potential GDP, there is a natural unemployment rate. Its unavoidable as people are often in a transition between jobs.

[Demosthenes11]

many would argue FDR fucked us over with his fiscal policy, so no, it's not every economist

and beck: I find Bush to be liberal on a lot of things, and slightly conservative of "moral policies," which is oddly where I mainly differ with the modern "conservatives"

[Beckwin]

someone who deficit spends and is semi-lax on immigration != liberal

If you want to say he's liberal in a select few ways that's fine, but saying he's a liberal just flat out isn't true. And I asked the question because he and McCain are extremely close policy-wise; to correct your statement that McCain was a liberal.

[Demosthenes11]

was more of a hyperbole statement but i get what you were trying to do!


prolly voting Obama next election though...or just not voting all together *cue pohdi barr pic*

[Beckwin]

prolly voting Obama next election though.

holy fucking shit I'm tempted to sig that or something

[Bingbong]

NEOCON TROLL ALERT
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

So... you don't have any real criticisms of increased transparency and reporting of lobbying, but you just felt like you had to sling some mud at the Democratic party? Or are you completely against politicians/political organizations trying to correct and hold themselves more accountable? Yes to the latter would make a lot of sense if you're a Republican.

Name calling... nice.
I'm completely for transparency of government. I'd love to know exactly what PAC's and special interest groups are "donating" to members of Congress. My point was that in your post about the good things a Democratic Congress is doing, you listed something that should come down on both sides of the aisle. Congress doing things good for us, bad for them, is rare no matter which side is stronger.

[Bingbong]

Because banning the private sector from experimenting with stem cell research, partly because of religious reasons, is exactly what the government should be doing.

Yeah, when it involves collecting human fetal tissues, the government should have a clear picture of what's going on. Now, banning it, I'm not so sure of, I know that's the case at the moment, but if someone isn't watching how the private sector goes about this research, who will check on these companies to make sure they are proceeding in a humane way? The idea of a research company not having to follow any sort of guidelines when collecting fetuses (feti?... my Latin is no good) is the stuff of science-fiction writers, not medicine.

See Stem Cell research, also, do you think inaction was a smart thing to do during the Great Depression, and that the government should do nothing when economic crisis looms? I guess those people who were without food during those times would have magicaly been assisted by the invisible hand and we wouldn't have had dead bodies and mass disease on the streets instead.

You sound like the media... take a current day situation and immediately blow it up into worst case scenario. OMG! RUN!!! NOBODY CAN SAVE YOU!!!!
Realistically, the government has to take care of it's people in a crisis. That's the major purpose for government, protection of it's citizens. On a person-by-person basis, the government is still there to help in times of a mini-crisis... unemployment, welfare, etc etc. We all know the people though that cause the system to break. The guy who drops his son off to school in his brand new Mercedes, while his son gets free lunch from school. The welfare mother with 3 kids she can't afford getting pregnant again. The guy on disability for obesity. A lot of these programs have been taken advantage of in non-positive ways.

Question, do you think this statement is ignorent, or do you honestly think that anybody who doesn't have a job is stupid? I guess you really think minimum wage is enough to protect someone.

So the alternative to earning minimum wage is not working at all? I fail to see where it's the government's job to make sure everyone works. Or make sure everyone leads a lifestyle they want. If you aren't making enough money for your lifestyle, it then becomes your personal responsibility to either change your lifestyle, change your job, or work more. Nothing's promised out here, and once the government does start to promise it, we get away from the Republic I talked about, and end up becoming a socialist or communist country. Both things that most of us would not enjoy.