Economy, SE, and you![GM survey @ Jeuno]

[LD]

I rarely try to make money, partially because I don't need a lot that I could buy, but mostly because I find the entire process to be a gut-wrenching bore, but when I do I mine on Mount Z. When the place isn't flooded with RMT and nimrods, it's actually fun to run around hunting for rocks and it's gives me a kick of nostalgia, cuz I used to run around in Gusgen back when DS was worth a damn....but I digress. The non-khroma stuff does give a slow, but reliable stream of cash, but of course the real money comes from khroma. Unfortunately, that market isn't too far from dying, Ore is already 50k lower than the old average on my server. As Einherjar grows in popularity, Khroma might go the way of Adaman.

I've always wanted a means of making money that didn't involve the AH, something I can just work at and get an immediate reward out of instead of dealing with luck, which in a broad sense can be applied to even placing an item on auction. Even if we weren't limited to 7 slots per character (and for most people, I'm sure that's less of an issue), one's income is entirely dependant on other people and when they decide to buy your crap. I'd like the system from FFXII, killing mobs and NPCing the drops for worthwhile cash, but the effects of making that more common and more profitable are undesirable at best and Wholly Fucked at worst. The only mobs that give large amounts of NPCable junk are colibri, and I doubt they could be killed any more often. I can't really think of anything that could create easier ways of obtaining gil without lowering its value, so even with SE suddenly finding out making money has been difficult for the past 2~ years, I don't know what they could DO about it.

[Tarage]

I'm a level 75 SMN and even I can't think of a good way to make money. I used to mine but that now requires me to go into areas where I frequently die. I used to craft but now I can't even break even. I used to farm tree clippings, but that doesn't return enough for it to be worth it anymore... I'm out of ideas.

Especially since I can't play as much as I used to. The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

[Kenji]

When I restarted, I found I didn't have too many problems with money. I quested like mad, actually obtaining quest items from around the game, rather than buy on AH. It's a good stream of money in the lower levels, and quite a few quest rewards sell for good cash. The only crafting I did, was making beeswax, a synth you can easily do at Lv0. Even buying mats on the AH, you can turn a profit.

I'd buy bronze gear from bastok vendors, and sell it on the San D AH for almost 2x what I bought it for. Conversely, buying leather gear in San D and selling it on the Bastok AH also works well. Selling stacks of crystals and other goodies always works. For a long time, I bought Earth Pact scrolls for 500 in Norg, and resold them on the whitegate AH for 3-4k. They are Rare, but I'd mail like 6 of them to myself, one at a time. A few pieces of gear and other items bought in Norg, also sell for more on the AH.

There are a lot of ways to make money. I'd concede that it isn't always visible or easy, but if it were, they wouldn't be good moneymakers because everyone would be doing it.

And if you're a highbe, and you can't make money, you need to find something to farm. Do some research. I won't list out the areas I farm, because I already have to deal with RMT, but I'm sure your friends and LS mates might share their farming tips. Farming as a 75 SMN/THF is incredibly easy, and my preferred method, between BCNMs.

[Apelila]

I would love to be able to make money during my off time instead of just spamming 'kill kill kill' on things at work and hoping I don't get the shit undercut out of me.

[Builttolast]

The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears. Lets face it, they have great ideas and they truly mean well, but they like fucking with us even more.

[LD]

The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears.

Wat?

[Builttolast]

The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears.

Wat?

They like adding arbitrary and redundant processes to anything that is worth doing. Like turning everyone into a tourist just to pop some NMs. As I said they like to fuck with us. Give you something good but make us bend over to get it.

[miokomioko]

The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears.

Wat?

They like adding arbitrary and redundant processes to anything that is worth doing. Like turning everyone into a tourist just to pop some NMs. As I said they like to fuck with us. Give you something good but make us bend over to get it.

But... it's... essentially... free. ?

[LD]

Yes, how dare they have us do something besides fight all the time.

[Aerin]

The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears.

Wat?

They like adding arbitrary and redundant processes to anything that is worth doing. Like turning everyone into a tourist just to pop some NMs. As I said they like to fuck with us. Give you something good but make us bend over to get it.

But... it's... essentially... free. ?

Free, but you still have to work to get it. Seriously, wtf?

[orson]

Making the expensive stuff less rare is the only way to make gil less valuable.

Adding more NMs at low levels that provide quick easy ways to get gear for players possibly even during exp. This is the biggest disadvantage for a new player it's not that gil is so hard to obtain it's impossible it's just completely separate of everything else. In FFXI you have to level, obtain gear, quest/kill NMs for gear/spells, do missions, and farm. Every single one of these things are very much separate from each other. There is a small amount of exceptions such as ENMs those were a brilliant idea but SE never expanded on it. Why does SE feel the need to separate everything? Dynamis, Limbus, and Einherjar would be leaps and bounds better if they removed the exp lose from dying and made every mob give like 10-50 exp to each person. Get your merits and gear at the same time.

That's the main deterrent for any new player I think it's just plain annoying to have to stop every 5-10 levels and do a crap load of questing and farming just so you aren't gimp.

[Builttolast]

I love how people here put words in your mouth. I just made comment on SE's use of redundant and useless systems that failed, with completely unrelated events. Pankration was a failure, it's a joke and not a very good one. Trying to make it work by linking it with a good idea is equal failure. Fuck you SE.

So to summarise.

New NMs = good
Implementation via pankration = a shit covered abortion.

So like I said I expect nothing good from them in regard to earning gil.

[Deftscythe]

The fact that SE is looking into this gives me hope. Maybe this isn't a 'lol dead game'.

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears.

Wat?

They like adding arbitrary and redundant processes to anything that is worth doing. Like turning everyone into a tourist just to pop some NMs. As I said they like to fuck with us. Give you something good but make us bend over to get it.

But... it's... essentially... free. ?

Free, but you still have to work to get it. Seriously, wtf?

At the risk of being wooshed...
Perhaps you'd like them to add a "give gil" button to your MH?

[Myrrial]

Pankration is the Pokemon battle system. Giving the camera a more meaningful purpose doesn't hurt anything. The method for obtaining Zeni could have been much, much worse than going and snapping 10 photos of a sleeping mob with your friends. The ZNM system's biggest problem is the fact that higher population servers (*cough* Odin) get fucked on NM pop item prices; but beyond that I think its pretty solid. The fights themselves vary greatly and are fun for the most part. Whats there to bitch about?

Edit: I do actually have one complaint about the camera system; and thats the fact that if your ranged/ammo slots are important to you (say, instruments or Turbo Animator) then you're pretty much SOL. But theres nothing forcing you to do actual Pankration to get Jettons or Zeni.

[ShuttleXpC]

If you don't have anyone you know playing this when you first start now, this game can be very tough getting items in. The days of obtaining crystals then selling them for real profit to fund low level item equips is over. Most crystal stacks are worth 500-1000 on my servers (Light and Dark more of course) while equips past level 10 range in the 15k-30k region for items that add a marginal or almost no stat boost and others that range into the 150k-2mil range for huge boosts. Now, if you start in Windy it may be a bit easier for you once you get to level 10 or so being able to kill Crawlers for thread. Any other nation though? Not even worth it at this point.

So they kinda need to make other ways to obtain gil for the lower level guys who are just starting and have no friends currently playing. Look at Lineage 2, its much the same way. You go into the game and you can't really afford anything. They are finally starting to add better ways to make money there (the huge crazy lump sums for some things) In ways of what the game calls shadow weapons which cost no money to purchase but simple farmed items.

I do feel sorry for the people starting this game now, its really pointless to wonder why they go to games like WoW or Eq2, or whatever other MMO. Mainly due to the fact so many people in FFXI will disrespect others in terms of their gear, and the guy who just started 4 days ago not being able to afford really much of anything nice (unless he/she started in Windurst and knows about Crawlers as a simple thing to farm) he or she stands no chance and will likely think to himself, "Endless farming for an item I use for 5-7 levels, being ridiculed for not having the money to buy good items...See you and goodbye."

[Sonomaa]

if they added real monetary rewards to the quests as opposed to the useless crap they hand out, or perhaps real gear as opposed to what we get, it would force the RMT to do quests for money that everyone else could do easily

[Builttolast]

if they added real monetary rewards to the quests as opposed to the useless crap they hand out, or perhaps real gear as opposed to what we get, it would force the RMT to do quests for money that everyone else could do easily

They appeared to do this with WOTG quests, though the cynic in me believes they did that to crash the market on what little valuable items we have left.

[Myrrial]

I think making money less painfully hard to come by would actually do a lot to combat RMT. People buy Gil because its that or spend an asston of time farming as /THF (and leveling THF if that hasn't been done already). As another poster mentioned, making money is its own activity in this game. In my decade of dabbling in MMOs, I've never seen a game decide to treat money so heavily as its own seperate treadmill instead of allowing it to be gained as happenstance from questing, killing, or the what-have-you that results in normal gameplay.

I'm terrible at making money in FFXI, and I've been playing it as long as thats been possible to do in English. I've never been a crafter; so most of my attempts to make money involve praying that an ENM or ISNM run will decide to treat me nicely. Even as a well-traveled player making money can be a total bish when it wants to be. And trust me, I know---I've damn near killed myself amassing the money for my 9/12 Imperial Wootz Ingots towards my Morrigan's Robe. And theres still no real end in sight there even with the price of the last four having diminished since the update. I can't at all blame new players especially for getting frustrated at having no money and having no real means of changing that.

Its sad too; because I've had players in other games express interest in trying FFXI from what I've said of it---but the counter-point that our economic structure is tailor-made for the people who have been around for years and is painfully unforgiving to new folks usually drives the point home that they're better off in CoH/V, WoW, PotBS, EQ, or wherever else.

[Lebzile]

[quote=Deftscythe]

It may give us poor people hope, but after seeing how they implemented the new NM system all hope quickly disappears.

Wat?

They like adding arbitrary and redundant processes to anything that is worth doing. Like turning everyone into a tourist just to pop some NMs. As I said they like to fuck with us. Give you something good but make us bend over to get it.

But... it's... essentially... free. ?

Free, but you still have to work to get it. Seriously, wtf?

At the risk of being wooshed...
Perhaps you'd like them to add a "give gil" button to your MH?[/quote:3qrmm2m3]

Hell yea.

[Lordender]

SE should just add their own verison of something you could do daily for gil like blizzard did with gold by adding daily quests instead of keeping farming stupid tedious. I hate to bring up WoW here but its not a bad idea, it might be hard making it work on FFXI. The dev team should certainly look into adding something similar.