Economy, SE, and you![GM survey @ Jeuno]

[volcanicweather]

As someone who is a professional market researcher, first off, I'm stunned to see them doing any sort of market research. Kudos to them.

However, their way of getting the respondents for their questions is far from ideal given the resources they have. I'm on the same sever as Tekki and it's pretty well known he's not lacking gil in-game (I'd probably be in the same boat too if I only had 1 job at 75 ).

With the information they have from the Vana'diel Census, they should be able to do wonderful market segmentation for not only qualitative efforts but quantitative as well. They really could get more of a feel as to how the "mid-level" player as well as the "low-level" player feels through adequate segmentation, based on playtime, jobs leveled, etc. You could make comparisons based on end-game satisfaction based on similar variables.

On top of this, SE has an amazing resource with the PlayOnline mailing system. Blasts e-mails could be sent out to people you KNOW play FFXI with pre-screening questions to classify respondents by gender, time zone, in-game job information, in-game race, anything you want. Then you can get more into the specifics with an array of closed-end responses or open-ended responses (your total numbers of respondents will probably be less with open-ended responses for analysis purposes). There are several possible roads to take.

If someone from the FFXI team is reading this, I would be willing to provide FREE consultation work for you in regards to this matter. I have been playing this game since the NA release of FFXI and have leveled 5 jobs to 75. From questionnaire development to data analysis, I have experience in all aspects of the process. I also have experience in dealing with MMO segmentation research in particular, including my exhaustive senior project at the University of Minnesota dealing with MMO addictions and the effectiveness of warning messages in MMOs (available upon request). Just send me a private message and we can discuss further.

[Hoshiku]

I think time is the biggest issue with gilmaking atm. As long as I have time to merit I can turn around and sell the silver pieces for 1k each while I'm asleep and that keeps enough gil on my toon to buy ammo, food, shihei, and cosmic soap. Also BCNMing and KSNMing is still an ok way to make gil (assuming you get lucky from time to time). If I had more time I would go back to killing demons in castle z, or running a tele-taxi from whitegate, but I guess not everyone can do that (it's bad enough beating the gilsellers to the demons when I do have time).

[fndragon]

I'm highly amused at this survey - I wonder what the scope of it really is. Did they chose Asura only, or is this happening on all/some servers? The time of day also matters, especially with an international customer base.

As for the subject matter - I know almost all of my friends have money problems. The problem is that the market is true supply and demand in FF - If you know of a way to make money that's accessable to everybody, then everybody will begin using that way to make money. For example: If a daily quest were started that would give you 10-30k gil by doing something that a level 30 character could do (such as, say, transporting an item from Bastok to Windurst or something), then we'd start talking about inflation instead of recession. People with more mules would be at a higher advantage than the casual player and the wealth gap would increase. If instead of a monetary reward, some valuable item was obtainable per day, then the supply of that item would increase and thusly the demand would decrease.

Thus the matter has to be taken seriously - how do you advantage the casual player while keeping the hardcore gamer from ruining the supply/demand cycle?

I personally have no money problems at all - I'm an A15 Chocodigger and I can profit around 600-700k a week, only digging for around 20 minutes a day. But it's impossible for me to recommend that to anybody starting out due to the stupid amounts of time required and the additional competition that would drive my profit margins down. (It's the time more than the greed, it would take two years for someone to reach A10 digging every day). It's a niche market, and I've found that this niche works for me, however the barrier to entry is huge, even insurmountable for new players. High level crafters have the same issue as well. I have several friends who need money to level crafting so (they think) they can make money; As soon as they reach level 100 and are millions in debt they look at the market and realize that it's both saturated with high level crafters and that the economy in general is causing devaluation every day. I've personally got Alchemy to 100, but I can say that I don't look to it for making me any amount of money.

Overall, I'm delighted that the GM's/Dev Team are taking a look at a critical problem in FF: The economy and the barriers to entry. However, I don't hold much hope for a miraculous cure.

[Attila]

As someone who is a professional market researcher, first off, I'm stunned to see them doing any sort of market research. Kudos to them.

However, their way of getting the respondents for their questions is far from ideal given the resources they have. I'm on the same sever as Tekki and it's pretty well known he's not lacking gil in-game (I'd probably be in the same boat too if I only had 1 job at 75 ).

With the information they have from the Vana'diel Census, they should be able to do wonderful market segmentation for not only qualitative efforts but quantitative as well. They really could get more of a feel as to how the "mid-level" player as well as the "low-level" player feels through adequate segmentation, based on playtime, jobs leveled, etc. You could make comparisons based on end-game satisfaction based on similar variables.

On top of this, SE has an amazing resource with the PlayOnline mailing system. Blasts e-mails could be sent out to people you KNOW play FFXI with pre-screening questions to classify respondents by gender, time zone, in-game job information, in-game race, anything you want. Then you can get more into the specifics with an array of closed-end responses or open-ended responses (your total numbers of respondents will probably be less with open-ended responses for analysis purposes). There are several possible roads to take.

If someone from the FFXI team is reading this, I would be willing to provide FREE consultation work for you in regards to this matter. I have been playing this game since the NA release of FFXI and have leveled 5 jobs to 75. From questionnaire development to data analysis, I have experience in all aspects of the process. I also have experience in dealing with MMO segmentation research in particular, including my exhaustive senior project at the University of Minnesota dealing with MMO addictions and the effectiveness of warning messages in MMOs (available upon request). Just send me a private message and we can discuss further.

There's little chance of this happening, if only because they were too dumb to hire ElmerthePointy to do localization work for them.

(let it be known I think both would be great ideas, SE has just shown themselves to be oblivious to obviously good ideas.)

[Rowe]

One thing to consider from this and from the Survey on the POL site about PC players is these things might be less about FFXI and more about the new MMO they are working on. WoW is proof that a casual MMO can make more money than a hardcore MMO.

[Octavious]

There's little chance of this happening, if only because they were too dumb to hire ElmerthePointy to do localization work for them.

(let it be known I think both would be great ideas, SE has just shown themselves to be oblivious to obviously good ideas.)

I want to go to FanFest and kick a SE Rep in the balls for not hiring Elm, he's so awesome <3

On topic, I still laugh at the GM going, "You're going to be banned" ... "NAAAHHHH JKJKJKJKJK" (ok so he didnt say it like that but its still funny.)

[Campbellkid]

I am a semi-new player (I started playing in Sept 06) and gil has always been a problem. I have a 75 thf and even with that is hit or miss. I recall going 0/3 on alky and 0/6 on pallas in 1 session. 1 pallas bracelets barely cover the cost of bolts and ninja tools. I was even desynthing gigas socks for thread and the gil was crap. I spend alot of my time in SSG farming and it's sad when your praying on an NM to pop so you can mug it for 5k. Sometimes I'll make 75k an hour or sometimes I'll make 20k an hour depending on how the drop gods are treating me. Most of my gil comes from NPC sales and if I have a bad session then I usually barely making enough to cover tools and bolts. One thing I noticed is how worthless BCNM and KSNM30 are. Its all or nothing on 90% of those, either you get the big money drop or you wasted your time and seals.

I'm not asking to have a "Gil Button" but some new ways of making would be great. I thought once I leveled some crafts making gil would be easier but even with 60 Cooking Clothcraft Bonecraft and 69 Woodworking its not any better. Sure I can spend an entire day crafting arrows and maybe come out 10-20k ahead...but I would have been better off farming mobs and npcing the drops. Thats just my insight, maybe I'm way off base.

[Lexa]

On topic, I still laugh at the GM going, "You're going to be banned" ... "NAAAHHHH JKJKJKJKJK" (ok so he didnt say it like that but its still funny.)

Any GM who doesn't respond to every question or comment with the scripted "I'm sorry to hear that, [player name], but unfortunately there's nothing I can do at this point. I will open an investigation, and if [action X] is found, action will be taken. In the meantime I recommend you go to POL and submit a bug report/mail to the STFU" gets a thumbs up from me. GMs with an actual sense of humor are fucking awesome.

I find it interesting that I myself have a huge problem making gil, I can barely cover 2x Limbus, transportation, food, and ammo some weeks...yet my g/f who started the game maybe 3-4 months ago consistently has more gil than I do.

I had that same problem with some friends of mine. Solution? They all quit playing the game, and I got their stuff when they left. :D

[Koyangi]

If only there was some kind of system of a quest that you could do every day that gives a monetary reward. Wait, shit...

I wish this game had dailies... lol

[ronin sparthos]

Making the expensive stuff less rare is the only way to make gil less valuable.

Adding more NMs at low levels that provide quick easy ways to get gear for players possibly even during exp. This is the biggest disadvantage for a new player it's not that gil is so hard to obtain it's impossible it's just completely separate of everything else. In FFXI you have to level, obtain gear, quest/kill NMs for gear/spells, do missions, and farm. Every single one of these things are very much separate from each other. There is a small amount of exceptions such as ENMs those were a brilliant idea but SE never expanded on it. Why does SE feel the need to separate everything? Dynamis, Limbus, and Einherjar would be leaps and bounds better if they removed the exp lose from dying and made every mob give like 10-50 exp to each person. Get your merits and gear at the same time.

That's the main deterrent for any new player I think it's just plain annoying to have to stop every 5-10 levels and do a crap load of questing and farming just so you aren't gimp.

Overkill. One tweak could do the job. Just one.

Beastmen drop level appropriate gear at a slightly higher rate than 1/5 zillion. If I'm taking out beastmen, let them drop armor and weaponry appropriate to the mob's level. I'm I'm fighting goblin smithies outside of Kazham, let them drop the occasional bits of chainmail, L20ish weapon to go with the usual gobbie drops. (Gobbie bounty hunters would be uneffected.)

Originally, gear dropped more often. If folks could even pick up a few pieces of gear in the course of fighting, that might take a load off the average newbie. Brass harness at 20 is a mite depressing.

This is a pretty good idea and SE could just take a page out of WoW's book and make the dropped gear R/EX to prevent people from actually farming it for money. This way newbies could lot for the said gear without greedy bastards going for it just for the quick spurt of cash.

Another point for consideration would be crafting and the dismal situation that part of the game is right now granted it can be extremely complex for a new player to actually make his/her own gear on the journey to 75. Perhaps some easier to synth gear that comes out R/EX? Larger selection of CP/ISP/AN low-midlevel gear?

Stimulating the market would help people to make money as well seeing as things like Alchemy are sitting stagnant because potions were flooded to hell with Assaults and the other niche things are so hard to make that they are barely worth the effort. Cooking and Fishing are mostly for fun because trying to make a profit off anything besides the niche 5% of items is a lesson in futility. Give players some ability to see what they are going to eat, give the huge pool of fish some more uses and actually make fishing skill worth a damn - the fishbotting is a cancer to those trying to make money in this economy.

Its great that they are taking surveys though, at least a problem has been recognized and that is the first step.

[tymora]

Increase gil drop from beastmen and scale according to level? Maybe there will be a reason to merit in the largely unused beastmen areas after that.

[Tricen]

SE needs to implement equipment that matters at lower lvls. I mean, 1-30 you have like shit for equip, then you need to have gil to really get better gear past that.

[zoobernut]

This would be a perfect opportunity to tell them to update Mug to be useful (I know it won't benefit everyone) it is another example of something that was designed for a different type of economy that has become outdated.

[fantasticdan]

This would be a perfect opportunity to tell them to update Mug to be useful (I know it won't benefit everyone) it is another example of something that was designed for a different type of economy that has become outdated.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but shouldn't mug be more useful now due to the deflation? Not that it doesn't suck as is either way.

[fndragon]

Increase gil drop from beastmen and scale according to level? Maybe there will be a reason to merit in the largely unused beastmen areas after that.

I still remember the roaving packs of gilfarmers up in Delkfutt's Tower. Do you?

[Myrrial]

there are daily repeatable quests.. hell some are repeatable many times a day...
but its tedious to do repetitive tasks so people kinda avoid it
and the real lazy bastards will complain until gil is handed out to them.. theres no pleasing them.. but it makes u wonder why they even play

I like you Spira. But would you please explain to me how it enriches my play experience to kill the same mobs for days trying to get spell scrolls to sell so that I can continue going to Limbus with my friends?

The entire game is a series of repetitive tasks. Thats what an MMO is. You do the same events over and over and over. Grinding XP, grinding merits, grinding your respective endgame event(s) of choice is more than enough to fill an average person's schedule. Then you have the insane people like me who can wake up, log into FFXI, check in with my LS, shower, and happily eat lunch and/or dinner over my keyboard while kiting Ix'DRK in circles. And even if I -live- in Vana'diel I can't come up with any Gil.

I'm not asking that money simply be handed to me. But I wouldn't mind it if I didn't have to set literally hours aside apart from my LS events to farm, farm, farm, farm. I don't see why mobs can't drop little packets of money like they do in other games. I don't see why downing Jailer of Asskickery isn't worth a dime. I don't understand why selling HNM drops has to be the only route to having a decent sum of gil in the game. I don't understand why -everything- has to be a crapshoot to the point that two equally skilled and geared players of the same job can farm the same mobs and one can make four times the money as the other.

A lot of us play the game because we enjoy doing the events and being around our friends. I love the community here and I love joking around with my LS and coordinating events on Vent. I do -not- love answering Tele-Taxi calls until my eyes bleed to meet my daily gil quota so that I can continue to function in this game.

[Kyreth]

Increase gil drop from beastmen and scale according to level? Maybe there will be a reason to merit in the largely unused beastmen areas after that.

I still remember the roaving packs of gilfarmers up in Delkfutt's Tower. Do you?

I do. It's the same reason they reduced item drops off beastmen- they'd farm the Gigas for Gil, and some would farm the goblins for items.

I'd still like to fight a bunch of X level beastmen and come across generic armor and weapons that match the level I'm going to be killing them at. Doesn't have to be common, but it'd be nice seeing newbies being able to occasionally get pieces they can use in the course of exping.

[Myrrial]

Increase gil drop from beastmen and scale according to level? Maybe there will be a reason to merit in the largely unused beastmen areas after that.

I still remember the roaving packs of gilfarmers up in Delkfutt's Tower. Do you?

I do. It's the same reason they reduced item drops off beastmen- they'd farm the Gigas for Gil, and some would farm the goblins for items.

I'd still like to fight a bunch of X level beastmen and come across generic armor and weapons that match the level I'm going to be killing them at. Doesn't have to be common, but it'd be nice seeing newbies being able to occasionally get pieces they can use in the course of exping.

If the common man is capable of obtaining gil then who gives a damn how much the RMT are able to farm up? People who buy gil defend themselves with the excuse that they simply do not have the time to farm for it in the modern economic structure. Going back to WoW for a minute (don't lynch me just yet), the introduction of more daily gold-making quests has seemingly cut down on gold-buying within their game. Now I'm not saying that such a fix would work exactly the same way in FFXI: But I do think that making gil a tad more availible as a general thing would only further hurt the RMT. Its the same basic supply and demand that continually diminishes the value of any given thing on the AH. As Gil becomes more common people are less and less willing to pay for it.

[Charismatic]

...or the prices on items just go up.

[Kyreth]

If the common man is capable of obtaining gil then who gives a damn how much the RMT are able to farm up? People who buy gil defend themselves with the excuse that they simply do not have the time to farm for it in the modern economic structure.

Going back to WoW for a minute (don't lynch me just yet), the introduction of more daily gold-making quests has seemingly cut down on gold-buying within their game. Now I'm not saying that such a fix would work exactly the same way in FFXI: But I do think that making gil a tad more availible as a general thing would only further hurt the RMT. Its the same basic supply and demand that continually diminishes the value of any given thing on the AH. As Gil becomes more common people are less and less willing to pay for it.

Sadly, no. The result of pumping large amounts of Gil into the FFXI system is hyperinflation, not the utopia you seem to think it is. If X player can get Y Gil over Z amount of time, the hacking, 24-7 RMTer pumps zillions more into the game via the same methods used continually and en masse. As Gil gets more and more common, prices rise as people are able to spend more on items- and do so, and folks also charge more on the AH, since people can throw more Gil at items.

All items rise in price, and usually at a rate higher than the increase in Gil flow to players compensates for...because whenever that happens, the RMTs do the same thing at a greater rate of Gil production (simply by having no life, and real players actually do other stuff besides farm.). This actually means there's MORE of a demand for Gil, and RMT's get more business.

Items are more limited- lower resale value, inventory limitations, etc. Even so, there's places RMT's go just to farm item drops...used to regularly see the RMT of the Month Club MNK down in the Ruins, mindlessly bashing the same room of gobbies for hours on end.