Best AP / tag

[Suiram]

Kaylia's right, there's something fundamental about the assault that you must have overlooked in your runs. The NPC leader has never died in 5 seconds, and in fact, I don't think I've ever been on a run where the leader died at all--maybe in a very early run, but that's it. Before our static RDM quit FFXI, we went months without having a single NPC die doing 3-4 runs a week. I am not saying this like "you must suck" because I imagine that there was just something you overlooked when you did it and you moved on to Bloody Rondo before figuring out what it was, which is fine if that works for you. But done properly, RvB is as close to a guaranteed win as you get in assaults. I wish I could give insight as to what could be done differently but I have always been a Raubahn-killer on our runs.

[fishstix]

If you're losing at RvB, or too many NPCs die to make it worthwhile, you're doing something wrong. If you take too long to kill Raubahn, NPCs will die. If the person who clicks on the starting NPC just stares at him, NPCs can die. Have the person popping the NPCs be either a job that can cure or something with an aga spell. Pop the NPCs, spam cures on your NPCs, or if you don't have a healer available, anyjob can kite the enemy mobs. Use diaga and run away, since it's enemy vs NPC, they'll always chase you if you have active hate.

@ Raubahn, without a monk or sam 2h, yeah it can be risky. Alternatively, I usually solo Raubahn as a blm/rdm when the time is too close to Salvage, that a 2h can't be used. I think a fully merited blm can kill him with 3 nukes, but it takes me 4 If he opens with Yawn... don't face him? >.> With a max of 1666 pts w/o tag, 3 ppl, and the time spent, ~5 mins, I don't see how this can't be considered efficient.

[Kerberoz]

Even an unmeritted BLM should be able to take him down in 3 nukes if they use AM2/aga3. There's no need to be MP efficient, so waste away. None of his spells have an significant range. Usually he'll start casting and then just stare at you for a few seconds because you're too far away. Throw gravity on and just nuke from max range.

Don't remember the last time I got less than 1600...

[fishstix]

We're not all tarus D:

Nvm, just tried it, Burst2-900, Freeze2-925, Blizzaga3-820, but still had like 18% or something; I nuked burst2 in a few pieces of mp gear, had to finish it off with a Blizzard3 and drain. I probably should've gone with thundaga3, or at least thunder3 at the end, but I was left with 52 mp ; ;

Still got max points though, 1666.

[mdkuser]

don't even need gravity, as he can be slept (I've never been resisted on blm). I do tier4 >AM2 >tier4

[Teorem]

Kaylia's right, there's something fundamental about the assault that you must have overlooked in your runs. The NPC leader has never died in 5 seconds, and in fact, I don't think I've ever been on a run where the leader died at all--maybe in a very early run, but that's it. Before our static RDM quit FFXI, we went months without having a single NPC die doing 3-4 runs a week. I am not saying this like "you must suck" because I imagine that there was just something you overlooked when you did it and you moved on to Bloody Rondo before figuring out what it was, which is fine if that works for you. But done properly, RvB is as close to a guaranteed win as you get in assaults. I wish I could give insight as to what could be done differently but I have always been a Raubahn-killer on our runs.

There's only two scenarios in which it's possible for the red team NPC leader to be KO'd causing a loss:

1) The blue team spawns right at the start. It's possible for the leader to be targeted by multiple BLUs during either wave and killed relatively quickly (not within 5 seconds, but still fast). Usually this doesn't happen though unless the BLUs use one or more of Bad Breath/Yawn/Sheep Song/Soporific, debilitating the red team NPCs.

2) Nareema and 2 BLUs spawn at the start. It's very possible for the red team leader to be killed without any PC assistance, but it still takes time for this to happen.

To avoid the first loss situation, simply use a strategy that doesn't involve the PCs going over to Raubahn's initial position before you signal the red team leader. This way, you can effectively deal with the blue team in the configuration that involves them appearing at the red team base immediately. The smaller groups of BLUs that appear on the way to Raubahn in the other setups aren't hard to deal with.

To avoid the second, leave a person behind at the start who can solo the blue team NPCs and Nareema. The leader and the two red team NPCs will fight back when they're attacked, but they can't hold hate at all from a PC.

[ringthree]

I can get 6 people a Salvage run with Bloody Rondo. I can get 3 people maybe 1666 under good circumstances and using my two hour with RvB.

Efficiency, plain and simple, favors Bloody Rondo. I am not saying don't do RvB, do whatever floats your boat, but in terms of Best AP/tag or more importantly AP for salvage, I don't see the point in doing RvB over Bloody Rondo.

[Amastacia]

Not having 6 who have tags and need AP?

Almost any combination of 3-4 people can get an easy 1500-1666 points in under 5 minutes with RvB.

If you lose you either got colossally unlucky or you're doing it wrong.

Fastest, easiest, and best AP Assault ever.

[VZX]

Saving Private Ryaaf is a good option too if one of your member is SAM/NIN with Cyclone unlocked

[Teorem]

I can get 6 people a Salvage run with Bloody Rondo. I can get 3 people maybe 1666 under good circumstances and using my two hour with RvB.

Efficiency, plain and simple, favors Bloody Rondo. I am not saying don't do RvB, do whatever floats your boat, but in terms of Best AP/tag or more importantly AP for salvage, I don't see the point in doing RvB over Bloody Rondo.

I simply don't see how this is the case, and I even detailed what you need to consider in order to make sure the points you can get are consistent, preventing the red team leader from being KO'd and ending your assault prematurely.

Even if you choose to rush Raubahn at the start, your two-hour ability is not necessary. You're a SAM, right? Meditate as you're running to the end of the zone, wait 3 minutes, Meditate again, wait 3 more minutes, Sekkanoki, signal the red team leader, self-skillchain Raubahn, and use Meditate again along with a couple melee hits to finish him off. Bring a subjob that allows you to absorb some damage, or if you trust Seigan, bring one that ensures your damage will finish off his HP completely (~3000). It's trivial if you have four people and thus a second damage-dealing helper for Raubahn. With either one or two people focused on Raubahn, the execution of this is far faster than the time it takes for the blue team to finish off the red team leader in the worst case, because most of the preparation occurs before the blue team is even active.

Or, you could do Bloody Rondo and hope that your tank remembered to bring Holy Water if they haven't turned around, or that a Cursed Doppleganger/bat isn't going to clear your backline as you try to finish off Dracula.

Efficiency favors Red vs Blue. It's as plain and simple as comparing 1832 AP with 1666 AP, 3 people with 6, and 10ish minutes with 20. Consistency only favors Bloody Rondo's 1500 AP if you're not willing to adjust your current strategy for Red vs Blue.

[Neosutra]

RvB keeps me sane and able to really keep up with salvage. Having an assault that takes literally 3 minutes and pays for salvage (and then some) every single day, is amazing. I cant imagine the nightmare of having to do a 20 minutes 6 man assault every single day just to pay for salvage.

Besides, if you 2 hour RvB a little before salvage each day, your 2 hour will be back up before boss time typically, so what are you losing?

[ringthree]

RvB keeps me sane and able to really keep up with salvage. Having an assault that takes literally 3 minutes and pays for salvage (and then some) every single day, is amazing. I cant imagine the nightmare of having to do a 20 minutes 6 man assault every single day just to pay for salvage.

Besides, if you 2 hour RvB a little before salvage each day, your 2 hour will be back up before boss time typically, so what are you losing?

Have you done Bloody Rondo more than once (assuming you have Captain)? It takes about 7 minutes tops. And I much prefer doing all my runs at once instead of having to cram them in before every Salvage run, especially considering I go with two groups.

If RvB keeps you sane doing it daily, then go for it, but again, if you are talking about efficiency, going once a day just so that you can use your two hour to sometimes get 166 more point doesn't seem efficient. Doing two sets of runs for six people to get enough points for Salvage for a week just reeks of efficiency to me.

[aurik]

3000 is enough for salvage for a week?

PS. Real pros do RvB without 2h

[ringthree]

I can get 6 people a Salvage run with Bloody Rondo. I can get 3 people maybe 1666 under good circumstances and using my two hour with RvB.

Efficiency, plain and simple, favors Bloody Rondo. I am not saying don't do RvB, do whatever floats your boat, but in terms of Best AP/tag or more importantly AP for salvage, I don't see the point in doing RvB over Bloody Rondo.

I simply don't see how this is the case, and I even detailed what you need to consider in order to make sure the points you can get are consistent, preventing the red team leader from being KO'd and ending your assault prematurely.

Even if you choose to rush Raubahn at the start, your two-hour ability is not necessary. You're a SAM, right? Meditate as you're running to the end of the zone, wait 3 minutes, Meditate again, wait 3 more minutes, Sekkanoki, signal the red team leader, self-skillchain Raubahn, and use Meditate again along with a couple melee hits to finish him off. Bring a subjob that allows you to absorb some damage, or if you trust Seigan, bring one that ensures your damage will finish off his HP completely (~3000). It's trivial if you have four people and thus a second damage-dealing helper for Raubahn. With either one or two people focused on Raubahn, the execution of this is far faster than the time it takes for the blue team to finish off the red team leader in the worst case, because most of the preparation occurs before the blue team is even active.

Or, you could do Bloody Rondo and hope that your tank remembered to bring Holy Water if they haven't turned around, or that a Cursed Doppleganger/bat isn't going to clear your backline as you try to finish off Dracula.

Efficiency favors Red vs Blue. It's as plain and simple as comparing 1832 AP with 1666 AP, 3 people with 6, and 10ish minutes with 20. Consistency only favors Bloody Rondo's 1500 AP if you're not willing to adjust your current strategy for Red vs Blue.

Bloody Rondo: Three /NIN DD, BRD, WHM, RDM. 100% win, 6 Salvage runs, takes about 7 minutes from 100% to 0%. You really should try it. If you are waiting on meditates, then Bloody Rondo is probably faster than RvB too.

[ringthree]

3000 is enough for salvage for a week?

PS. Real pros do RvB without 2h

4 runs Monday, 3 runs Friday. 2 sets of runs. Enough wins for a week.

PS. I never used 2 hours when I did RvB either, and I rarely lost, but when 1 loss can lose a Salvage run for someone, its not worth the risk.

PPS. Do RvB if you want to, I am just talking about efficiency.

[Amastacia]

Bloody Rondo: Three /NIN DD, BRD, WHM, RDM. 100% win, 6 Salvage runs, takes about 7 minutes from 100% to 0%. You really should try it. If you are waiting on meditates, then Bloody Rondo is probably faster than RvB too.

RvB: Two /NIN DD, two kiters. 100% win, 4 people set for Salvage, takes about 5 minutes from 100% to 0%. You really should try it. If you have 2 DDs, you don't need to wait on Meditate.

Oh, and you don't need 6 people with tags if you don't have them on hand. Since, like, some of us do Assaults with different groups of people and your 6 person Salvage group may not all have tags synced up for Assaults.

[ringthree]

Bloody Rondo: Three /NIN DD, BRD, WHM, RDM. 100% win, 6 Salvage runs, takes about 7 minutes from 100% to 0%. You really should try it. If you are waiting on meditates, then Bloody Rondo is probably faster than RvB too.

RvB: Two /NIN DD, two kiters. 100% win, 4 people set for Salvage, takes about 5 minutes from 100% to 0%. You really should try it. If you have 2 DDs, you don't need to wait on Meditate.

Oh, and you don't need 6 people with tags if you don't have them on hand. Since, like, some of us do Assaults with different groups of people and your 6 person Salvage group may not all have tags synced up for Assaults.

I used to do it all the time, stopped because even the occasional loss is bad. I mean if you like RvB go for it, but with 4 people the reward decreases to the point that Bloody Rondo is definitely more efficient. *shrug*

[aurik]

Er, no, you still get more points per person doing RvB with 4 than Rondo with 6.

Oh, and Rondo is not as simple as you like to think. Eternal Damnation or Servitude hitting multiple people, multiple Servitudes in a row, or just Kiss spam will slow you way way down.

[ringthree]

Er, no, you still get more points per person doing RvB with 4 than Rondo with 6.

Oh, and Rondo is not as simple as you like to think. Eternal Damnation or Servitude hitting multiple people, multiple Servitudes in a row, or just Kiss spam will slow you way way down.

Ummm... no, if you beat RvB with 4 you get 1500 capped if you kill it fast enough.

If Eternal Damnation or Servitude are hitting multiple people, then you are really doing something wrong. And if anything really goes bad, its really easy to recover, unlike RvB where if anything goes wrong, the run is over.

I will say it again, if you like RvB then do it. It's just not the safest or most efficient option.

[Bakthi]

I don't know what's going on in your RvB, but I'm the one who stays behind at the Red team to spawn the Blue team. I go as WHM, with a SCH sub of 27 (currently limping upwards on Ops and exp scrolls). My WHM has 3 pieces of gear not left over from BRD: 1 earring, waist, neck. I don't have any WHM merits. It's just used for this, now, and occasionally /BST for CN escort.

Rarely, when the team of 6+ BLUs spawn at the start, I will lose one NPC. Not usually, but it can get a bit exciting. I've never lost the Red leader. When the 3 BLUs spawn, it's downright boring; even if something were to go horribly wrong and Raubahn took forever, the Red team could easily kill them with my healing. I keep the Red leader targeted, and scan through the rest of the team with <stpc> Cure V/IV macros.

Usually, we go with 4, simply because that's the way things have worked out. I don't mind having 4 people, and an occasional 5th even, because that way I still get to use tags without hoping I can find an extra person if someone can't show. 99% of the time, we do not 2hour.

I have had a few RvBs go catastrophically wrong (quite a while ago), to the point where everyone died at least once, and I died 2-3 times saccing myself to raise others. We still won, and we still got most of the points. Doing it right takes so little time that you have more than enough to die, complain, plan, R3 everyone, make a sandwich, unweaken, and redo it in well under the time limit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of the conflict here may have to do with the way people organize assault. From looking at ringthree's blog once, I seem to recall he does assault as a LS-wide sort of thing (and I'm getting that impression again here). I, and I imagine most others here, do not. So an assault that works better with 6 people sounds better to him, and worse to us.

With RvB, Assault takes us almost no time, we do 4-5 Salvage a week, and we do 2 Nyzul per week. I can't complain. I will add that Dooooooooble Agent isn't a bad fallback if you have 3 people and don't think you can manage RvB (or someone isn't ranked highly enough).