Ok what the hell is up with Roc?

[fishstix]

I never had hate trouble, but my thf gear isnt spectacular >.>

[Pergo]

the max hated thing sounds good, but its just interesting how it seems like theres a weird glitch with TA on some mobs

i've been recently killing lumber jack(lv55 nm) with nin and thf duo, and both the nin and the thf attack very fast and do around the same damage... but as thf, i TA ws onto the nin to give him hate, and it still stays on the thf, i can't even pull a SA off, ever. if hate were maxed for thf, wouldn't it be maxed for the nin as well, and would share the focus with both thf and nin? rather than be looking at the thf 95% of the time

[Reality]

trick attack is glitched on simurgh, not sure about roc as i spent a lot more time camping trotter boots for myself and some friends, about a month and a half of camping for 3 pair

trick attack never seemed to consistently function, rarely it did but most of the time the damage behind that JA seemed to generate it's hate on the thief, so yeah i'd wager it's a glitch and nothing more

[Sepuku]

Did you try Sata + hide + ws on Roc/Simurgh?
I wonder if it makes any difference.

[Kumaccio]

Fought it several times for the lolstaff of a friend.
First time I went as pld/nin + blue mage friend,whm and warrior ,if im not wrong.I could never take hate off ppl that was hitting him at the moment.As I was missing most of the hits I never got it facing at me for more then 30 seconds.I believe his hate depends on who is hitting him at the moment and if more are hitting him at the same time he just face the one hitting harder.The next day I went as blue and actually tanked most of the fight a,I wasnt missing any hit and we were just Blue+Thf .
Yeah sounds strange but that was my experience over 5-6 Rocs so :\

[Chezo]

maybe hitting a mob that hard that fast pulls more enmity then a WS that did more dmg?

[Kumaccio]

nah i just found he was changing target each time they just hit him over ws or jas,neither invincible was effective :\

[S N K]

I remember Lumber Jack being that fruity once before but most of the time it was me tanking it. From what everyone said so far, all 3 old school Jeuno NMs have an ability*glitch* to totally ignore TA hits even tho the damage from the TA lands, the enmity that should be generated onto to person being TA'd is totally ignored.

I thought that maybe I was having issues lining up but it seems other people noticed the mob just flat out ignores whoever is getting TA'd on. Dropping a total of 10k damage in Trick's Dancing Edges and Shark Bites onto one person over & over should have that mob totally hating on that person but in this case Roc, Simurgh and even Lumber Jack don't even bother to look at whoever's getting TA'd at the time.

I agree with Aurik on the issue of max hate to a point but still seeing that much damage dropped onto a tank totally ignored is funny at best.

I'm going to try it out today on Roc *since nobody seriously camps it* & Simurgh *if we get claim* and see if I can focus every single TA onto the tank with no SA at all and see how it manages.

[Gunitsoldier]

Anyone else first thought title said Rocl? ._.

[Snapples]

does this have somthing to do with party hate? i noticed it it with the long ass fight for gotoh zha the redolent. even after dying and reraising, i cast phalanx2 on our pld tank (who hadnt died once) and immediately pulled hate and was killed. i know these mobs have party hate and it seems like CE just.. dies... after a long time with the same mob, it behaves like VE is the only thing controlling it while CE "caps" at an extremely low value, or rather because party hate is shared, everyones CE is at a near capped value just for being in the party.

someone please correct me if i'm misjudging this concept.

[savageboy]

from what i recall...
i dont find it totally unreasonable that 1.5-2k dmg wouldnt put permanent hate on a tank. as an unmerited monk i hit for about 100 a fist eating sushi. unless u have full merits i imagine any dd would whiff fairly well on roc or sim even without the evasion boost on.

4-5 tp a swing at 100 dmg and 20 swings per ws...is what 2k dmg? u plant 1.5-2k on the tank whos /nin and probably not eating sushi and missing like a pro. i would imagine the thf to get hate the next round of swings. its not bugged i remember roc and sim both acting this way, they have a tendency to regulary switch hate even upon large weapon skills and i do attribute it to max hate seeing as they both take huge amounts of dmg from any well geared melee.

if you have to go pld, id go /war dd gear, eating sushi and joyeuse equipped. id imagine youd get better results that way, he only hits for like what...30-60 unblocked? whats the point in going /nin to mitigate dmg when you cant hold hate

[S N K]

from what i recall...
if you have to go pld, id go /war dd gear, eating sushi and joyeuse equipped. id imagine youd get better results that way, he only hits for like what...30-60 unblocked? whats the point in going /nin to mitigate dmg when you cant hold hate

Yeah PLD/WAR is fully acceptable vs that mob. It doesn't hit that hard that unless your gear is total shit during Simurgh's Mighty Strikes then you won't take a ton of damage with war sub.

I see where you're coming from tho on the issue. I'm fully merited on Dagger @ 292 skill with a Love Torque and I was eating Meat.

[rezn0r]

Anyone else first thought title said Rocl? ._.

yes

[Druwillo]

I have fought Roc many times as both a nin and a thf.

When I tank on Nin... Even with some emnity gear I can turn it for maybe a few secs before it turns to the DD'er who is doing the most dmg. Nin hate wears faster than a DD'er applying alot of dmg ovr a short amount of time.

probably related to that CE v VE discussion.

When I fight Roc on Thf... I pump out about 700 SA's and about 1700 TA Shark Bites however, Hate still turns back to me very quickly. Thf high fast dmg to roc and probably keeps max hate longer than a tank Jin's and voking.

Either the DD'er needs to turn and stop hitting it for a few or th tank needs a warcry/voke for a good hate spike followed by an unresistd Jin to get hate back.

[savageboy]

dunno what there is to discuss here, monk is the most effective tank for the 2 birds. high haste and march, elegy, threnody + enfeebles, combined with high dmg rate i duo them both with a brd. just sleep it when ur getting mopped up.
nin and pld would just stand by and watch if you have a mnk.

[S N K]

dunno what there is to discuss here, monk is the most effective tank for the 2 birds. high haste and march, elegy, threnody + enfeebles, combined with high dmg rate i duo them both with a brd. just sleep it when ur getting mopped up.
nin and pld would just stand by and watch if you have a mnk.

Um we weren't even discussing that...

[loyaltrekie]

In almost every instance I've ever fought Roc, my thief has had hate. Even starting off with a TAWS, majority of the time after a few attack rounds + SA etc I've gotten it back. I've never noticed TAWS doing too much for a nin to keep hate on him :/ I assumed it was due to the low levelish nature of the mob and it's piercing weakness~

[savageboy]

kinda was the topic of discussion. nin and pld/nin not being able to hold hate on roc/sim is nothing new. sorry i should have been more clear...just use dd to tank. lock this pos

[S N K]

kinda was the topic of discussion. nin and pld/nin not being able to hold hate on roc/sim is nothing new. sorry i should have been more clear...just use dd to tank. lock this pos

Or maybe you could not be a smartass. I understand that not everyone thinks as great as you do but it's obvious that I wasn't the only one curious about this mob's enmity.

I'm sorry if this thread disturbs you so much but if you didn't want to contribute anything else without acting like a smartass, then please don't post if you can't keep yourself even civil. The discussion wasn't about what jobs should be tanking best, it was about how even with massive TAing on Roc and Simurgh that hate never seems to land onto the person being TA'd.

I got Roc today and dumped a 300% DE onto the PLD/WAR for about 2600 damage. It looked at the PLD for maybe a whole minute then it went right after me. I dumped another few 1500s onto the PLD again & again and thus the same result happened.

I'm going to assume what Aurik said is right and that it's defense is so low that even if I dump hate, it's never going to stick for long vs a DD with piecing damage.

btw Staff dropped that time~

[savageboy]

never thought I acted like a smartass. I was contributing and I thought it was kinda sensible from the get go.
its just cap hate. something u don't see on normal mobs bc of their low hp. roc and sim have high hp and even a fast kill with a few dd is about 10 min or so.
a quick round of swings from a drg mnk or thf is about 400 dmg or more if ur procing ur ja's. 2.6 on a pld swinging and hitting once in awhile for 80 isn't gonna cut it.
congratulations for testing what I thought everyone on this thread knew. now try fighting a greater colibri with 60,000hp see who will take hate a thf or a pld getting tricked on. (now I am being a smartass so I feel like i at least deserved the last post)

pardon my sidekick post. I have to get through work somehow