ZNM...Tier 4 strats

[Seidell]

Hey guys I've been looking for some Tier 4 strats for the ZNMs. I used the seach but I wasnt able to find anything just lists of drops....can someone help me out?

[Therin]

Hey guys I've been looking for some Tier 4 strats for the ZNMs. I used the seach but I wasnt able to find anything just lists of drops....can someone help me out?

They're almost just like the normal ones. The only noticeable difference is that Sarameya (Cerberus) casts spells, and Hydra can be manaburned (his resistances are lowered). Everything else is pretty much the same - be ready for Fulm/GoH at 50% instead of 30/25, though.

[Kitha]

From my experiences (killing w/ 8-9 people):

Tyger

Immune to slow/elegy (brd go /whm), didn't build stun resist (but resists occasionally due to low skill from rdm/drk and nin/drk? blm stuns never resisted from what I can remember). Low resistance to nukes, so SC+MB darkness to your hearts content.

nin/drk tank, sam/nin + thf as DD, making darkness for blm(s)

The fight is fairly similar, but much squishier; like pointed out, watch for fulm starting @ 50%

Tinnin

ES slow/elegy works, sometimes it goes TP spam crazy for some reason we weren't able to figure out. It seems to have a set pattern of doing a shield move then nerve gas right after, so be aware. Low resistance to nukes, like Tyger.

The first few times we had a nin/drk tank since it can be ES slow/elegy'd, but it wasn't as smooth as we'd have liked, so the last time we fought, we just had two sam/nin rape it in around 20min. We were short a person and had to swap jobs around so we couldn't get a blm, but w/ the sam SC'ing together for sexy MB, Tinnin would have died even faster. Still has piercing resist so as I just ran in for solo SA/TA, WS when I had TP (did shitty damage boo); relegated to collaborate whore status ; ;

Sarameya

Resists all debuffs from what I could tell, but the most important being immune or near completely resistant to slow/elegy/stun so rdm & brd sub whm for paralyna. Fairly resistant to nukes but really squishy!

We killed it with nin/drk, sam/nin, thf/nin as DD, SC+MB'ing when we could, but everyone got near hate cap because we couldn't pound enough damage fast enough. Honestly, nin & /nin is worthless since it hits so incredibly fast but for such low damage. A well geared pld/war, or moreover pld/rdm should have no problem tanking this. Fire resist builds make this fight a joke during CS; I think next time we do this we might even have the sams tank w/ damage reduction during normal melee & fire resist during CS. Dispel/finale hoplon spikes fast since it regens quickly with them on.

I'm probably missing a lot, but thats the basics that I can remember for the moment.

[Suiram]

When Tinnin goes into the "TP spam crazy mode" he will also rotate to directly face the person with the most hate (I'm guessing to force them to take full breath damage), so they should be mindful of that and reposition so that he continues to face the direction you want him to and wait 2-4 WSs until he starts using TP normally again, then move back to position.

For Sarameya, posts in the huge thread in advanced (referring to chainspell GoH below 10%) made it sound like he spammed GoH nonstop below 10%, but that's not the case. It's just that when he chainspells he can use TP moves instantly without a windup (as in earlier chainspells in the fight where he'll mix in Lava Spit along with spells), and that during the 10% CS, GoH will be mixed in too, but it only lasts the normal duration of the 2H and then it's over. Also I don't think he was able to use GoH until 25%, at least he didn't use it until then for us, and CS seems to be based on the first time he reaches a % because we did not have an ideal alliance and after the final 10% chainspell he regenned some and it took us long enough to where he should have used it again were it on a timer or something, but he did not. Also, BLM damage was quite unsatisfactory.

[Rocl]

Just a small note, but for Tinnin Elemental Seal was largely unnecessary for landing Slow II. I stuck it with reasonable accuracy, though of course Elemental Seal would've made it easier- just pointing out it wasn't necessary!

And of course, assuming you hadn't read the 95 page thread in Advanced (I don't blame you), Tinnin pops at 50% with one head, and repops the other two throughout the fight. Each time he pops a head, he regens roughly 25%, he did this fairly early in our fight, so no clue if there's anything that causes it specifically. Finally, a minor note; it has Draw-In and will not move from its pop spot.

Oh, and you can't cut off his heads as far as I know.

[Secksi]

Tinnin-After the 25% regen per head, does it have the high auto-regen Hydra gets under 25% with 3 heads up? Haven't seen it mentioned but I'd like to know for sure. I'm also guessing it has Nerve Gas as soon as it hits 3 heads? Finally, he's wind based right?

Sarameya-Good to know he doesn't go into some crazy GoH spam mode, that's what I was thinking also from what I read in the other thread.

Tyger-Is it worth it to burst StoneIV/dare I say Quake2 or just stick with ice spells?

[Seidell]

woohoo ty for all the info guys

[Rocl]

Tinnin-After the 25% regen per head, does it have the high auto-regen Hydra gets under 25% with 3 heads up? Haven't seen it mentioned but I'd like to know for sure. I'm also guessing it has Nerve Gas as soon as it hits 3 heads? Finally, he's wind based right??

He had decent regen from the start, no clue if it went up. The few moments we tried to pull it from the ??? at the spot it went from 50 -> 53%. No clue if it goes up, and I'm pretty sure it can Nerve Gas as soon as it gets three heads.

[Thorny]

Tinnin started with fairly heavy regen for us, the heads popping seemed to be triggered by regen hitting those %s, as opposed to the heads triggering regen. As soon as it has 3 heads, it gets nerve gas, and while it has no TP regen anyone pulling hate from the sides or out of melee range will trigger drawin. Every time it did draw-in, it would do trembling or a breath, one of the 2 shields, then nerve gas in quick succession(with nobody feeding tp). After it hits 100% and regains heads it seems to have 8-10/click regen at best, smn pacts typically take 2% off.

[tsola]

As someone already said, Tinnin only does Nerve Gas right after it does a Bulwark, so it's easy to prepare for. BLM or SMN are the best for dd I think personally, especially if you don't have a lot of people.

Tyger was really easy. I was terrified at that no slow/elegy thing, but it wasn't that bad. No stun resistance helps a lot. The starting fulmination at 50% doesn't really matter that much anyway, compared to normal khim since it has less HP.

Sarameya is the hardest. Spikes really need to be dispelled as quickly as possible to prevent it from regening too much. We made a mistake of stunning every ga3 early on, and it ended up being immune to stun when it was time for GoH. Even then I think it's GoH is weaker then normal Cerb's (I'm not sure of this though, as I've never actually fought normal Cerb, just from what I remember from spectating).

[Judai]

Tyger was really easy. I was terrified at that no slow/elegy thing, but it wasn't that bad. No stun resistance helps a lot. The starting fulmination at 50% doesn't really matter that much anyway, compared to normal khim since it has less HP.

Khim doesn't build Stun Resistence? Is that right?

[tsola]

Tyger was really easy. I was terrified at that no slow/elegy thing, but it wasn't that bad. No stun resistance helps a lot. The starting fulmination at 50% doesn't really matter that much anyway, compared to normal khim since it has less HP.

Khim doesn't build Stun Resistence? Is that right?

We had our blms occasionally free stunning pre 50%, and we never saw a resist. We maybe didn't stun THAT much though, so it could have some kind of resistance, but it definitely wasn't as fast as how Sarameya built resistance. Other people have also said that it doesn't seem to build stun resistance too though.

[Varg]

Tyger was really easy. I was terrified at that no slow/elegy thing, but it wasn't that bad. No stun resistance helps a lot. The starting fulmination at 50% doesn't really matter that much anyway, compared to normal khim since it has less HP.

Khim doesn't build Stun Resistence? Is that right?

We had our blms occasionally free stunning pre 50%, and we never saw a resist. We maybe didn't stun THAT much though, so it could have some kind of resistance, but it definitely wasn't as fast as how Sarameya built resistance. Other people have also said that it doesn't seem to build stun resistance too though.

Agreed. It seems to have no stun resistance the three times we killed him, so if stunners are awake, you should never see fulmination.

[Mojo]

I'll post what I've experienced.

Sarameya

• Capable of using standard Cerberus TP moves. Gates of Hades is available while its HP is under 25%.
• Capable of casting Blaze Spikes, Burn, Fire IV, Firaga II, Firaga III, and Flare II, although the damage done by them is not overwhelming.
• Low HP but extremely high regen when spikes are up. Both forms of Blaze
• Spikes(Blaze Spikes and Magma Hoplon) can be dispelled.
• Immune to Slow and Elegy, susceptible but highly resistant to Paralyze.
• High elemental magic resistance and a magic damage reduction modifier(nukes seem to do half of their normal damage if not resisted).
• Susceptible to Stun but it will build a resistance.
• Activates Chainspell when its HP reaches 89%, 69%, 49%, 29%, and 9%.
• It will only use Chainspell once upon reaching these intervals, so if Blaze Spikes cause it to regen above one of the HP intervals it will not activate Chainspell again when its HP is brought back down. When Chainspell is activated, both TP moves and spells will be executed instantly. This can be dangerous as it will have access to Gates of Hades during the 9% interval and possibly the 29% interval, depending on how quickly you're killing it.

Tips:

Minimize the number of people in range of its TP moves. Mages constantly getting Paralyzed by Ululation or killed by Gates of Hades can quickly unravel any effort you may be making. The range for both of these is 20 yalms centered on Sarameya. It's got low defense and evasion, so physical damage should be your main platform. Summoners work nicely to compliment a few well geared melee. Melee can back off during Chainspell to minimize damage incurred, although I would recommend exercising caution with this as it should be very easy for them to pull hate and the last thing you want is for it to be running around. Immediately Dispel its Blaze Spikes or its HP can rapidly shoot up. When the 29% Chainspell activates, hold off on damage until it's finished as knocking it down below 25% HP might cause complications with Gates of Hades spamming. There are two ways to approach the 9% Chainspell. You can either Cure bomb tanks and rough it out or you can have your melee hold TP and unload on it at 10% while mages toss in a few stuns. Three well geared melee with a BRD should easily destroy it before it can do much damage, it's definitely the method I recommend.

Tinnin

• Capable of using standard Hydra TP moves with standard Hydra TP move regulation with one exception. Nerve Gas will only and always be used after immediately after Pyric Bulwark or Polar Bulwark.
• Spawns at 50% HP with only one head. Its other heads will regrow quickly and will regain 25% HP the first time each head regrows. Heads can be broken off again although it is rare and I'm not sure what causes it.
• High HP regen when only one or two heads are out.
• Susceptible to Slow and Elegy.
• Low resistance to elemental magic and seemingly no elemental magic damage adjustment(RDM nukes hitting for full damage often in full MAB gear...)

Tips:

This is definitely the easiest of the three. It can be solo tanked quite easily due to Slow and Elegy. A small number of well geared melee and compliment of BLM should have no trouble destroying this without much effort.

Tyger

• Capable of using standard Khimaira TP moves. Fulmination is available when its HP is below 50%.
• Immune to Slow and Elegy.
• Moderate elemental magic resistance(much higher than Tinnin's) and a magic damage reduction modifier(nukes seem to do half of their normal damage if not resisted).
• Susceptible to Stun, but it will not build a resistance.

Tips:

This is most similar to the actual HNM. It could be difficult for an inexperienced group. Fulmination is much too large to be avoided by sheer distance, if one goes off and everyone in your alliance it has the potential to wipe you. It can be stunned quite easily, although there is a better way to deal with it.

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/3...1023304sd8.png

If you position your tanks like above, anyone in the area where all of the mages are standing will not be affected by Fulmination. The tanks are actually against a small ledge so Tourbillion doesn't send them flying all over the place. If you keep the number of melee on Khimaira within reason, you really shouldn't even need to stun Fulmination. It's not a large theat when it's only hitting four people.

Physical damage easily trumped BLM damage, although we did not attempt any skillchains and magic bursts. Maybe we'll try it next time.

Anyways, hope this helps.

[Zilong]

So you can actually cheese Tyger with NIN/DRK? Or does the "no buildup on resist" only apply if the stun isn't applied every 20 seconds or so?

[Judai]

Are people DD tanking or using NINs and PLDs along with the DD?

[Mojo]

Well we didn't stun every 20 seconds so I couldn't really say although in all of the fights I've done I have not seen a single resisted stun on Tyger. They're probably all capable of being melee tanked, although having one standard tank for Tyger and Sarameya is probably a good precaution.

[Zilong]

Any estimate on their HP? Just wanna know how much damage I'd need to bring if we were to do them. Personally my group would probably only be able to get 10-12 mark before having to drag "friend of a friend" or getting help from other group, so just wondering if this is one of those shit that's hard for an alliance or can do with 2 parties.

Also, does the fire resist needed to resist Sarameya's GoH/Fire spell equal to say, Tiamat's ~330 or so fire resist? Or is it more along the line of KSNM99's Wyrm ~250+ resist?

[Judai]

Just did Tinnin(Hydra) with 12. Started off with 2 PLD/NINs tanking and 2 SAM/NINs meleeing/SCing. BLMs bursting and a THF doing w/e. Was kinda of nasty, took alot of damage and ended up wiping. We zombie'd it for a bit and one PLD had to leave, ended up getting back up and starting over from about 45%. We decided to have the SAMs just Med>WS and NOT Melee, this made it a joke. I solo tanked it fine from 45%>0 with no other melee on him. It took 3 Frag SCs +MBs from 3 BLMs to finish it, with a couple nukes after.

PLD, 2SAM, THF, 3BLM, WHM, 2RDM, BRD. Started with 2 PLDs but one had to go.

[BerenTebogo]

Yeah I'd say leaving melee on during Tinnin with less than 18 is just asking to get face-fucked.