what do you think constitutes an Advanced Player in 2008?

[raginbull]

I think to be an advanced player now, you need to have at least one of the following:

1 Stage 5 Relic
Maat's Cap
A full Salvage armor set
Capped merits

I thought about including Ridill, Defending Ring and Dalmatica in there but then I also thought of the Ridill WARs wearing earthen abjuration feet, dalmatica rdm's wearing af1 boots, novio blm's with only NQ staves, and... can't really think of anything specific for pld's with d.rings, but I'm sure there are some gimp ones out there.
Any opinions?

[Tan]

I think to be an advanced player now, you need to have at least one of the following:

1 Stage 5 Relic
Maat's Cap
A full Salvage armor set
Capped merits

I thought about including Ridill, Defending Ring and Dalmatica in there but then I also thought of the Ridill WARs wearing earthen abjuration feet, dalmatica rdm's wearing af1 boots, novio blm's with only NQ staves, and... can't really think of anything specific for pld's with d.rings, but I'm sure there are some gimp ones out there.
Any opinions?

Definitely not true at all. Bought/Sold/Hacked accounts make this completely irrelavant. And advanced player is someone you trust underfire, who doesn't flip out when shit hits the fan and someone who is always ready for anything and everything. Gear doesn't make a player advanced nor does merits. My saying has always been "Good gear doesn't make shitty players better" and if you list the number of merits in your bazaar, you care way too much about exping.

[Not Kuno]

I don't think any of those do really.

[Wizerd]

I think to be an advanced player now, you need to have at least one of the following:

1 Stage 5 Relic
Maat's Cap
A full Salvage armor set
Capped merits

I thought about including Ridill, Defending Ring and Dalmatica in there but then I also thought of the Ridill WARs wearing earthen abjuration feet, dalmatica rdm's wearing af1 boots, novio blm's with only NQ staves, and... can't really think of anything specific for pld's with d.rings, but I'm sure there are some gimp ones out there.
Any opinions?

Definitely not true at all. Bought/Sold/Hacked accounts make this completely irrelavant. And advanced player is someone you trust underfire, who doesn't flip out when shit hits the fan and someone who is always ready for anything and everything. Gear doesn't make a player advanced nor does merits. My saying has always been "Good gear doesn't make shitty players better" and if you list the number of merits in your bazaar, you care way too much about exping.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...il_on_head.jpg

Perfectly.

[BerenTebogo]

Anyone with too much time on their hands can cap merits in like a month, so I don't know about that.

Plenty of retards exist with all or multiple of the above as well, so I don't really know if I agree.

[Khrno]

A big average of your random social ls people that barely does sky or limbus probably have capped merits since that is the main thing they do, merit, the game involves about meritting for them. I don't see how that makes them advanced.

A relic requires a large effort or simply a big enough credit card, so that's out of the question too.

Maat's cap is just for your grinding (maybe no-lifer) guy, and probably a considerably average of those ppl don't know how to really play 70% of their 66+ jobs. There is one Maat's Cap in my ls, the guy is a really good Ninja and Sam, but he sucks at pretty much every other job. Last month we were zerging Kirin and I tell him, don't forget to use Drain II at start, he was a Ridill DRK, and he says: "why? If the mages can heal me, don't need to drain to heal myself".

Full Salvage set would be a better indicative, but remember that not all 6 ppl in a group (or how many ppl the groups are) are always that goood, or smart, so you could have the randoms members that completed their Marduk, Skadi or w/e set by free lotting 15/25s and getting lucky with 35s drops.
Besides doing Salvage 7 days a week doesn't mean they are better than someone else, but that Salvage is their main focus.

An advanced player is a mix of experience, knowledge, skill and gear, that's what i think.

[RKenshin]

Definitely not true at all. Bought/Sold/Hacked accounts make this completely irrelavant. And advanced player is someone you trust underfire, who doesn't flip out when shit hits the fan and someone who is always ready for anything and everything. Gear doesn't make a player advanced nor does merits. My saying has always been "Good gear doesn't make shitty players better" and if you list the number of merits in your bazaar, you care way too much about exping.

Eh, I agree and disagree.

Obviously there are exceptions to this, but typically if you are an advanced player you will equip yourself well and have a good amount of merits, in addition to all of the above. Your third sentence can easily describe a lot of players I wouldn't really call advanced... I'd call them reliable and trusting, but not necessarily advanced. A person with only RDM at 75 that is always at events, keeps their cool, but has no merits and one set of crappy gear would by no means be my definition of an advanced player.

And it's not an insult; it's just a way of describing someone's playstyle choices and how far they take the game. It's not a fault to just to want to have fun in a video game and/or not take things as seriously as others may. Being just an advanced player doesn't mean much anyway IMO. There are many other more important things that define someone than how advanced they are in a video game. I'd take an awesome person that's an average player over the most advanced player in the game if they were a dick.

But, continuing, to me advanced is more about not just knowing your shit, but doing it. And doing it damn well. You don't have to have the best gear, capped merits, relics, rare drops, or any specific items to fit that definition. But you do have to know what you're doing, and take the steps to do it. And hey, often you may do more than what's expected of you. In reality though under this definition, the concept of an advanced player hasn't really changed much at all from 2005 to 2008. Which is really how it should be, because if you were considered an advanced player before odds are you should also be now.


And hey! I use my bazaar message to keep track of the number of merits I have. Nothing wrong with that! If you didn't have interest in knowing about my character you wouldn't have checked me anyway, so it's not like it's a poor place to list it. I almost never actually bazaar anything either.

[Amele]

given how poor the drop rates are for salvage; I'd say being a part of a successful salvage shell would be a better indicator than how many drops you personally got.


competently leading an endgame focused linkshell is probably the closest you can get to an airtight requirement, and even that would be debatable.

[Callisto]

competently leading an endgame focused linkshell is probably the closest you can get to an airtight requirement, and even that would be debatable.

That would definitely need some qualifiers lol, as there's many people who continually start completely fucking failure /shout Sky/HNM/whatever shells on a daily basis.

I'm between Tani and Ruke, basically it's about effort. Putting forth effort outside of the game to learn about the workings of the game, because really there's too many easily spelled-out resources available now to not take advantage of any of them. Then putting forth effort in how you actually play the game. Don't just toss on random shit because it has big numbers and looks cool, know why you're wearing certain pieces for certain things, know what's better, and either do the best with what you have or put forth as much effort as possible into improving what you have(i.e. even something as shitty as a Chasuble has it's situational uses if you know what you're doing). Learn where things pop in Dynamis, learn which bosses use which moves and how to stop them, and for fuck's sake learn the Elemental Wheel.

That said, I can think of several Relic/Salvage gear holders that I wouldn't trust to land a timely Stun/Voke/Sleep/whatever. Having gear that fits a purpose, while not wearing useless gear, and at the same time making use of said gear, be it plain and functional or OMFGWTF, is advanced.

Add: I do agree that gear shouldn't be the basis. I consider myself an 'advanced player', though I'm pretty sure I'm the last RDM left on Ramuh that isn't walking around with AF2 hat. Sometimes you just can't do shit about drop rates and such.

[Tan]

Obviously there are exceptions to this, but typically if you are an advanced player you will equip yourself well and have a good amount of merits, in addition to all of the above. Your third sentence can easily describe a lot of players I wouldn't really call advanced... I'd call them reliable and trusting, but not necessarily advanced. A person with only RDM at 75 that is always at events, keeps their cool, but has no merits and one set of crappy gear would by no means be my definition of an advanced player.

Its hard to summarize whats an ideal "advanced" player but I just thought of the local RDM hooligan I'm stuck with. He gets around these forums pretty well *coughiceyhotrefreshazcough*. But typically he has way more gear than any normal person, a set for anything, has all his merits and is ready for anything and everything. I guess I just wouldn't trust or rely on anyone who isn't qualified to get the job done properly. Thats just one of the perks of leading your own shell, you get to choose who you play with and I try to keep the best closest. (But then again you get stuck w/ the ones with the "I have the gear, I must have the skill" attitude)

But I gotta say this since its probably the one thing about these forums that I dislike the most. The Omg Gimp/Confused/WTF thread pisses me off. Because like you said some people don't play this game to be the best of the best and they play this game to have fun, and all the players that post in that thread think (or most of them atleast) think they are hot stuff because they can laugh at someone else gear. I'll admit theres a lot of people who either don't know wtf they are doing with gear choices, because they don't want to listen to someone's advice or because they don't have the time/access to get the really good stuff, and out of those two the people who don't want to listen to advice deserve to be in that thread. Then again theres some quirky players like myself that might use a wtf item (loliceshield) because its a long running joke in my LS that I won't buy anything else until I finish my Aegis.

That second paragraph was kinda off topic but I guess what I'm trying to say is an advanced player is someone w/ all the qualities I listed before and also someone who doesn't give a shit about being elite because they are confident and certain about their playing abilities and don't need to belittle someone to prove it.

[Callisto]

Obviously there are exceptions to this, but typically if you are an advanced player you will equip yourself well and have a good amount of merits, in addition to all of the above. Your third sentence can easily describe a lot of players I wouldn't really call advanced... I'd call them reliable and trusting, but not necessarily advanced. A person with only RDM at 75 that is always at events, keeps their cool, but has no merits and one set of crappy gear would by no means be my definition of an advanced player.

Its hard to summarize whats an ideal "advanced" player but I just thought of the local RDM hooligan I'm stuck with. He gets around these forums pretty well *coughiceyhotrefreshazcough*. But typically he has way more gear than any normal person, a set for anything, has all his merits and is ready for anything and everything. I guess I just wouldn't trust or rely on anyone who isn't qualified to get the job done properly. Thats just one of the perks of leading your own shell, you get to choose who you play with and I try to keep the best closest. (But then again you get stuck w/ the ones with the "I have the gear, I must have the skill" attitude)

But I gotta say this since its probably the one thing about these forums that I dislike the most. The Omg Gimp/Confused/WTF thread pisses me off. Because like you said some people don't play this game to be the best of the best and they play this game to have fun, and all the players that post in that thread think (or most of them atleast) think they are hot stuff because they can laugh at someone else gear. I'll admit theres a lot of people who either don't know wtf they are doing with gear choices, because they don't want to listen to someone's advice or because they don't have the time/access to get the really good stuff, and out of those two the people who don't want to listen to advice deserve to be in that thread. Then again theres some quirky players like myself that might use a wtf item (loliceshield) because its a long running joke in my LS that I won't buy anything else until I finish my Aegis.

That second paragraph was kinda off topic but I guess what I'm trying to say is an advanced player is someone w/ all the qualities I listed before and also someone who doesn't give a shit about being elite because they are confident and certain about their playing abilities and don't need to belittle someone to prove it.

In Tanith's defense, he hasn't spent alot of time in Advanced, or he'd know that constantly belittling others is a requirement.

[Tan]

Then I guess I'm a Newbie4life!

[Wizerd]

competently leading an endgame focused linkshell is probably the closest you can get to an airtight requirement, and even that would be debatable.

I would agree with this if the game wasn't quite so far as it is right now. It's very hard to start up a new linkshell successfully nowadays. Two years ago, it was a lot easier, and you'd actually have a chance at semi-competent players answering your *god forbid* shouts.

I lead my Dynamis LS, I've led sky linkshells, an HNM LS, and I've led a few Salvage groups and runs (just about every one I've ever gone on), but not everyone is that lucky, or simply that kind of person. You don't need leadership qualities to be an advanced player; I know several players who I'd consider advanced who are very uncomfortable when given the reigns.

I also agree with Callisto, but I want to add something. If you truly want to be an "advanced" player, you should take the time to learn how every job in the game works. There are many, many, many reasons why you should know these things and many places where it'll come in handy. Dynamis monsters is just one example. Knowing whether or not to ask for Haste from your RDM is another (you should be able to tell if they're too bogged down to cast it). You don't have to play a job to know it - you just have to research it and observe others playing it.

On top of that, research what you do before you do it. I had a new member of my dynamis LS join for his first city run ever, and he had no idea that he needed to click the ??? when we killed the boss, so he never got his win... orz.

[Tan]

Lol, Calli's g/f joked about that last night at our Bastok run and I almost died again (I was dead already). Because we had done that run pretty much specifically so she got clearance.

[Callisto]

but I want to add something. If you truly want to be an "advanced" player, you should take the time to learn how every job in the game works.

That. Like Ruke said in that other post, you don't have to take a job to 75 to learn how it works. I've read my ass off learning about SAM and PLD because I work closely with SAMs and PLDs, and I need to know when they're going to need me to step up and do something. I've had to learn how nuking works even though I'm not a BLM, how healing/enmity works even though I'm not a WHM, etc.

Also: Tani don't hate on the Gimp/WTF thread, if it wasn't for that I'd have to actually do work while I sit here.

[LinktheDeme]

I think capped merits should be a standard personally makes a big difference between a 10 minute devotion and a 20 minute devotion. Having snake eye on a 5 minute timer and a 15 minute timer. Being able to land enfeebling magic and resisting etc.

[RKenshin]

I don't really agree... Maybe for some jobs, but at this point in the game with people having several 75s or more it's almost impossible to keep all of them capped as well.

Most people are pretty far from capped, and it's actually rather rare to be capped even with just a few 75s.

[Charismatic]

And hey! I use my bazaar message to keep track of the number of merits I have. Nothing wrong with that! If you didn't have interest in knowing about my character you wouldn't have checked me anyway, so it's not like it's a poor place to list it. I almost never actually bazaar anything either.

We already know you care too much about exping.

[mikazuki]

an advanced player is one who improves their gaming by their self.

[Onorgul]

Using gear as a rubric for player competence will always fail. If you took someone with all of Rukenshin's absurd gear, extensive merits, and multiple jobs, but with all the practical skill of a drunken duckling, it wouldn't mean shit. Oh, their per-hit damage might be ok, assuming they're not doing something retarded like meleeing in a defensive set, but I don't imagine anyone would mistake them for a competent player.

The concept of "advanced" in regards to FFXI is pretty laughable, though. The game is not even remotely difficult and that has become increasingly true as we back-engineer the game's code (that's effectively what we're doing when we learn how Magic Attack Bonus or Accuracy or whatever works). Trying to pin someone down as among the elite rather than those who are above-average is difficult. For one, the qualifications for above-average seem to be pretty lax and boil down to having a Red Mage that remembers how to handle a Refresh rotation for three people. I wouldn't call that above-average, but with how many people are on the low end of a very strange bell curve, somehow it appears to qualify.

Being a good player -- which somehow seems better than being "above-average," "elite," or "advanced," in my weird little mind -- just means being able to pay attention and adapt on the fly. Ever see a melee player who always seems to know where the mobs are and will taunt a link even before it aggros the distracted mage? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about, rather than the people who sit and touch themselves while watching their auto-attack animations. Saying that someone with a particular bit of gear or who has solo'd a particular mob (impressive to be sure, but solo and party play are often quite different) or who has participated in a certain event often enough is necessarily "advanced" is arbitrary.

Does it really matter, though? You know who the good players are, assuming you're objective enough to ignore that you might not like the arrogant prick who just happens to do his job well.