what do you think constitutes an Advanced Player in 2008?

[Nirokun!]

Nirokun. (with a controller )

[Lordwafik]

OP is silly. I wouldn't put gear as the prio for advanced gear, while it counts it shouldn't be the main decision, it should be based on their knowledge.

People leak all the time saying XI is not hard, yatta yatta, well it's a freaking MMO, if they made it hard then say goodbye to your customer base (do we really need to remind ourselves what CoP did to the population of this game?). Sure there's no pinpoint precision and junk needed in this game, but that's due to the shoddy network code.

[Ferien]

an advanced player is one who improves their gaming by their self.

I like this. It probably puts a lot of people others wouldn't consider "advanced" into the category, but these are the people who will always be trying their hardest to accomplish things, finding out new info, striving to get everything they need to be their best. While right now they may not be "advanced," they're the ones who have the most potential to be.

[Max™]

Being a good player -- which somehow seems better than being "above-average," "elite," or "advanced," in my weird little mind -- just means being able to pay attention and adapt on the fly. Ever see a melee player who always seems to know where the mobs are and will taunt a link even before it aggros the distracted mage?

Yay! I'm advanced in at least on persons eyes! I win now!

:D

Capped merits? No, capped important merits for the job/s you will be using when people need you to be doing that job well? Yes.

Does it matter that I'm missing a couple of HP merits still, and haven't really delved into Cat 2 War merits besides recapped Warrior's Charge? (god damn 5 minute WC timer makes me happy, it's like christmas every 5 minutes!)

No, because they ultimately add little to what I'm expected to do, killify the ungodly hell out of shit, and be a buffer between the main tank/s and the mages.

Have keystone gear, understand how and attempt to utilize gear to make the most of what tools you have, learn how to make a freaking macro set.

Understand how each job in the game works with the rest of the jobs, even if you don't know the formula's for Blm nukes, or understand exactly why haste kicks so much ass, you should be able to look at a party/ally and pick out what weaknesses it may have, what it should be capable of, and what role you could perform to best assist the group.

[Raen Ryong]

I don't like the whole "capped merits" thing, because some players who level jobs like I do which do not get many merit invites are somewhat hindered like this, whether or not we perform incredibly in merits or other situations -- we are limited by the playerbase, not our own skill or whatever.

While it can be argued that an "advanced player" would level a job solely to merit, I do not enjoy any of the "merit jobs" and moreover, my existing jobs (DRK in particular) function incredibly well in a merit setup. It's just the playerbase.

For the record I do have most of my important merit categories done or at least unlocked, I just don't think that should necessarily be such an important criterion.

an advanced player is one who improves their gaming by their self.

This is what I feel.

[Amele]

competently leading an endgame focused linkshell is probably the closest you can get to an airtight requirement, and even that would be debatable.

I would agree with this if the game wasn't quite so far as it is right now. It's very hard to start up a new linkshell successfully nowadays. Two years ago, it was a lot easier, and you'd actually have a chance at semi-competent players answering your *god forbid* shouts.

I lead my Dynamis LS, I've led sky linkshells, an HNM LS, and I've led a few Salvage groups and runs (just about every one I've ever gone on), but not everyone is that lucky, or simply that kind of person. You don't need leadership qualities to be an advanced player; I know several players who I'd consider advanced who are very uncomfortable when given the reigns.

I also agree with Callisto, but I want to add something. If you truly want to be an "advanced" player, you should take the time to learn how every job in the game works. There are many, many, many reasons why you should know these things and many places where it'll come in handy. Dynamis monsters is just one example. Knowing whether or not to ask for Haste from your RDM is another (you should be able to tell if they're too bogged down to cast it). You don't have to play a job to know it - you just have to research it and observe others playing it.

On top of that, research what you do before you do it. I had a new member of my dynamis LS join for his first city run ever, and he had no idea that he needed to click the ??? when we killed the boss, so he never got his win... orz.

it might perhaps have been more accurate for me to say: sufficient but not necessary; you're right. it's not necessary to lead a shell to be advanced.

[Max™]

I don't like the whole "capped merits" thing, because some players who level jobs like I do which do not get many merit invites are somewhat hindered like this, whether or not we perform incredibly in merits or other situations -- we are limited by the playerbase, not our own skill or whatever.

While it can be argued that an "advanced player" would level a job solely to merit, I do not enjoy any of the "merit jobs" and moreover, my existing jobs (DRK in particular) function incredibly well in a merit setup. It's just the playerbase.

For the record I do have most of my important merit categories done or at least unlocked, I just don't think that should necessarily be such an important criterion.

an advanced player is one who improves their gaming by their self.

This is what I feel.

I am in the same boat as you are, except now gaxe War/Sam's get random invites and specifically requested to come merit, but I've gotten something like 120~ Merits, and maybe 50 of those were in merit parties, the rest was Campaign/solo/random event exp/Besieged.

I just felt that merits would improve my gaming, so I did it myself.

[Cream Soda]

I think to be an advanced player now, you need to have at least one of the following:


Maat's Cap

lolwut

I think to be an advanced player now, you need to have at least one of the following:

1 Stage 5 Relic
Maat's Cap
A full Salvage armor set
Capped merits

I thought about including Ridill, Defending Ring and Dalmatica in there but then I also thought of the Ridill WARs wearing earthen abjuration feet, dalmatica rdm's wearing af1 boots, novio blm's with only NQ staves, and... can't really think of anything specific for pld's with d.rings, but I'm sure there are some gimp ones out there.
Any opinions?

Also, if you have option 1 or 3, w/o 4 for that job, I wouldn't call that a very advanced player.

[Francisco II]

I have Usukane Somen, Gote, Hizayoroi and Sune-ate.

Unfortunately, I'm like 0/22 on Citadel Chelonian making me an advanced player.

I think being successful at Tier III Einherjar is the best indicator of an advanced group. A lot of stuff can go bad in there, and you need to be able to adapt on the fly. Rolling over and giving up every time you see Bombs or Soulflayers pop will guarantee failure.

[Khrno]

While it can be argued that an "advanced player" would level a job solely to merit, I do not enjoy any of the "merit jobs" and moreover, my existing jobs (DRK in particular) function incredibly well in a merit setup. It's just the playerbase.

I leveled WAR as my third 75 job just because I can wear my Adaberk on it. I've tried to merit, to do Nyzul, tank some random NMs, and I simply can't come around WAR, many people praise that job as tanking, as kiters, as DDs, I'm not saying otehrwise, I've seen that firsthand from WARs in my LS so no doubt about it, but I'm just too used to Stun, I can't leave without it (even tho I don't stun on many HNMs and stuff that are stun resistable), and I need my Drains, my Dread Spikes and my Abs-TP, hell I even miss Weapon Bash on crucial moments.

It's not even that I play WAR badly, because I still play it better than a lot of other WARs that I see running around, but I just don't have the same feeling of safety and survivability as I have on DRK.

I think I'm just advanced on DRK and a n00b on WAR or something

[Viq]

People leak all the time saying XI is not hard, yatta yatta, well it's a freaking MMO

When I was big into L2 there was a debate similar to this. The best post in the thread was similar to what Wafik is saying. It was something like, "If you want to see skilled individual players then play FPS or RTS. MMO's are about organization and teamwork." The people that are really "advanced" players in a game like FFXI are the ones that, like people have said, understand all of the jobs and know how to effectively and efficiently work as a unit.

[Redness]

People leak all the time saying XI is not hard, yatta yatta, well it's a freaking MMO

When I was big into L2 there was a debate similar to this. The best post in the thread was similar to what Wafik is saying. It was something like, "If you want to see skilled individual players then play FPS or RTS. MMO's are about organization and teamwork." The people that are really "advanced" players in a game like FFXI are the ones that, like people have said, understand all of the jobs and know how to effectively and efficiently work as a unit.

This.

Researching your, and your fellow players' jobs, so that you know what they do and why. Reading patch notes so you're current with game mechanics. Reading BG on a daily basis because it is win.

These are the requirements for being an advanced player.

[potatoninja]

Havn't really cared about being an advanced player I just know I dont mess up on fights and dont cause wipes. idk how you really come to advanced player only thing i can think of is someone who is knowledgeable about most everything and does well on everything consistantly. To Khrno i've pretty much ended up in the same spot but reverse drk was 5th 75 war was 2nd and everytime i play drk on stuff it just doesnt feel right war just feels more comfortable to be play on as im sure the same for ur drk (just letting you know ur not the only person that this happens to)

[Max™]

You hate being without Stun?

I compulsively provoke things, often at random.

I can't level mage jobs because of this (and disliking them in general), noone wants a Mage/War, and I've yet to find the NPC that sells the scroll of Provoke.

That's one of my favorite things about Dnc and War/Dnc, Box Step > Box Step > Provoke > Animated Flourish > stuff gets maaaaaaadddd and stays that way nicely.


I wish SE would figure out how to slot Dnc into endgame situations as a viable healer (Hint: a Gaudy Harness type latent item giving Regain when under 60% or so Tp would let you land steps, reverse flourish your TP up, and actually be useful in a lot of situations) so I wouldn't feel like it was a total waste getting it to 75.

[Rocl]

I have to agree about the bit with knowing how every job plays and how they work together.

I could care less if you've just spent three hours killing Despot by yourself, could care less you felt the need to level fifteen jobs to 66, could care less you enjoy beating on mamool ja and colibri for hours, or feel the need to spam what I consider the very definition of a FFXI grind gear. And of course, whipping out your Visa and racking up some frequent spender points to IGE is something I don't really have concern for.

If you understand the basics of every job, the ins and outs of each. You know that the Samurai full-timing Hasso and getting absolutely murdered is just as retarded as the Red Mage who casts every spell in a wand/shield combo, you know how to stand outside fucking Discoid range, you know not hit the goddamn tail and to stay out of it's face. You know how to throw a Stygian Ash- and which teleport is SE Apollyon (It's Mea; spoilers every east is Mea and every west is Dem!), you know that Soulflayers put up a Rampart Magic Shield and not an Ahriman Magic Shield, and that it's possible to nuke it off. You know that bringing 700 people to every event is over-kill, whilst bringing only a party for some things is down-right silly. You know how to navigate fucking Xarcabard without a map (I would say Beaucedine, but I suck at that one too ;; ), the basic flow of each Dynamis (North San d'Oria zone pull is full of SMNs, the Chocobo Stables in Bastok is BST heavy, the wall of eyes has way too many fucking WHMs and BLMs), you know not to melee full-time in Osode. You know hachiman domaru is a pretty shitty gear choice, just like tanking in a staff on PLD is generally silly for most things.

You have collected all the pertinent knowledge considered "Endgame", and can apply it. You know what needs to be done, and how to do it. Drop them in a Limbus zone, and clear it. Drop them in an Einherjar, and clear it (Barring amazingly shitty luck). Slap some fools in Dynamis and watch them tear, have those same guys dropped in front of Ixion, Tiamat, super Serket, and watch 'em go. Dip them in some Salvage zone and watch them clear the NMs and the Boss. You know how to play your jobs, and could pick up any other. You know what to do at any given time. You are prepared, intelligent, and competent.

Your merits may not be capped, you may not be sitting in town full of white-boxes and relics, you don't have a Maat's Cap, nor have completed any piece of Salvage gear- but you can get shit done and look good while doing it.

That's what I would consider "Advanced"
in before my examples are wrong

[Isiolia]

Advanced players are the ones exploring things themselves, expanding the playerbase's knowledge of the game & mechanics. That sort of thing.

/point enmity testing, haste testing, etc.

People that do that kind of stuff benefit the entire community that cares to pay attention to it. Hard to beat that kind of impact.

To a lesser degree, having knowledge of the game as a whole would be advanced too. Stuff like Rocl mentioned.

Relics, Maat's cap, whatever. Just means you've spent a lot of time.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I have 503 merits spent (all non-job specific categories and 7 jobs capped), 7 merits I haven't spent waiting for my new job to hit 75 and sch doesn't have any merits yet but if when they do you can expect me to cap them out. I used to have capped merits until the new update came out with more group II's.

Do I still get the title of "Advanced Player?"

Can throw in other stuff like over 500 days playtime, been successfully hacked and got account rolled back. Started your Own BG thread that lasted more then 1 page.

[Starr]

I think an advanced player is someone who can cover a couple/few types of job (Healer, support, DD, tank), is well equipped and merited in each and doesn't fail at their jobs. Oh and they can't be one of those people with BRD RDM or BLM levelled yet say shit like "they're retired" and won't play them, that's noob.

[Gunitsoldier]

Oh and they can't be one of those people with BRD RDM or BLM levelled yet say shit like "they're retired" and won't play them, that's noob.

Totally agree.
Imo it's a player that can play multiple jobs as Starr said and has decent gear. Also has to be able to work in a team and take/give orders.

The OP totally missed it.

[Wizerd]

I think an advanced player is someone who can cover a couple/few types of job (Healer, support, DD, tank), is well equipped and merited in each and doesn't fail at their jobs. Oh and they can't be one of those people with BRD RDM or BLM levelled yet say shit like "they're retired" and won't play them, that's noob.

Ugh I hate when people do this. If you level a job, be prepared to use it. You don't need super gear, you don't really even need to like it. Just play it well and try to make the best of it. If the people you're playing with don't know about the job already, don't even list it.