what do you think constitutes an Advanced Player in 2008?

**Scorp** · 2008-06-28 08:34

Rocl shouldn't you stand inside discoid range ^^

The only real skill in this game is knowing about game dynamics. As people have said knowing your job and more importantly others is key, knowing how mobs pop, what moves they have, how to navigate zones, organise people through salvage/limbus etc . I'd also say you need to know how to make gil at at least a steady rate, waiting for a speed belt/k club drop isn't steady.

I would happily call anyone advanced if they combined that with the ability to turn up to any event/merit pt/hnm as a useful job with effective gear. You dont' need to have more than 1 job to do this, but if you do only have 1 job make sure its versatile enough to add benefit.

Effective gear doesnt' have to be super rare drops but if they are missing know how to gear around them.

**Titanss** · 2008-06-28 12:05

Originally Posted by Max™

why haste kicks so much ass

advanced

**Callisto** · 2008-06-28 23:13

Originally Posted by Rocl

You know how to navigate fucking Xarcabard without a map (I would say Beaucedine, but I suck at that one too ;; )

The day I realized I no longer needed a map in Beaucedine was when I new Dynamis was fucking awesome.

**Koyangi** · 2008-06-28 23:57

Heh, FFXI is leaps and bounds easier compared to like WoW (endgame). There's so much room for error on 90% of FFXI endgame and you can still kill said mob. In WoW, you need the right tier of gear, and adequate DD, add control, heals, and tanking(all with the required skills) that need to be on spot and literally no fuckups or you = wipe.

**Charismatic** · 2008-06-29 01:04

Originally Posted by Koyangi

Heh, FFXI is leaps and bounds easier compared to like WoW (endgame). There's so much room for error on 90% of FFXI endgame and you can still kill said mob. In WoW, you need the right tier of gear, and adequate DD, add control, heals, and tanking(all with the required skills) that need to be on spot and literally no fuckups or you = wipe.

People on the internet always say this, but my RL buddies (1 has been playing since beta and the others joined him when it came out for retail, they also all played FFXI before WoW came out) tell me that it's bullshit and 90% of WoW endgame content is easy as fuck and to quote my friend Robert "trained monkeys could clear most raid content, actually fuck the training".

I don't know who to believe. I want to believe raiding on WoW is like that, that might allow me to get over my irrational hate for the game and make me actually want to try it.

**Onorgul** · 2008-06-29 01:10

Once the strategies have been figured out, the hardest part of most WoW raiding is being geared for it. If you took a well-geared Mage, gave it a few Arcane Explosion buttons on hotbar, and put a crack-addicted chimp in front of the keyboard, they could probably do as well as 80% of the Mages in the game. That isn't to say that WoW is easier, though, it's just... more gear-dependent. If you aren't geared to the nines, then you actually have to apply competence, which is what can make it hard and what can make FFXI's endgame seem easy. Truth is, they're both pretty equally easy, it's just a matter of knowledge.

**FailureMidgard** · 2008-06-29 01:12

Originally Posted by Koyangi

Heh, FFXI is leaps and bounds easier compared to like WoW (endgame). There's so much room for error on 90% of FFXI endgame and you can still kill said mob. In WoW, you need the right tier of gear, and adequate DD, add control, heals, and tanking(all with the required skills) that need to be on spot and literally no fuckups or you = wipe.

This is only if you're doing Omega with 18, Einherjar with 36, etc. I feel I am very qualified to speak on this kinda of comparison (was the leader of a top10 guild in WoW), and there is a huge difference between WoW aiming raids at 25 and allowing 25 max and FFXI not really aiming to need anywhere near the maximum # of people allowed.

Staying on topic, I agree that an advanced player understands every job, not just their own. This was the same in WoW. A good player knows exactly what other jobs can do, and how and why it works, and can keep up with what goes on around them. A good player also doesn't have retarded chat filters blocking what their party is doing!

However, I think one of the biggest things is not making the same mistake twice. There can be an advanced player that has never done salvage, and has even read a lot about it, but fails on his first try there with a new group. As long as that group learns and doesn't repeat a mistake, there is nothing wrong with wiping, timing out, etc.

**Tricen** · 2008-06-29 03:10

ITT: Elitism

**frodnonnag** · 2008-06-29 08:46

to be an "advanced" player, you need two of the following: Skill, Gear, Ego.

**Freijah** · 2008-06-29 08:56

The combined forces of willingness to learn and ability to put knowledge into practical use will make you stand out from that from the average. It's not a case of being 'elite', for me. A server is probably 50/50 in regards to people to take on the game with enough effort to do a job properly and those with gimp subs, stupid gear, complete lack of focus, bad communication, etc. Relics, Merits, rare gear, etc, they are the products of time commitment, personal acheivments. An advanced player is still advanced underneath or without them.

As has been said in this thread before, being Advanced is not the title for an select, divine few. There is too much infomation available to anyone who cares to seek it. The intricacies of the game are there to discover with reletive ease, and I must say much of it is thanks to you people on BG, constantly wanting to learn and share more.

It comes down to people who care, and people who don't.

The /em spamming gimp-sub Mithra that sits in town for hours in bridal gear doesn't give a shit about your nerdy Advanced bullshit. And we don't care when she's trying to tell us about the latest fucking Naruto episode and /em huggly-wugglying us. We're just two different archetypes in the same game, but we're both having fun so fuck it.

**Obev** · 2008-06-29 09:20

Originally Posted by frodnonnag

to be an "advanced" player, you need two of the following: Skill, Gear, Ego.

WTB skill.

**Chronatog** · 2008-06-29 09:53

Advanced to me is some1 that knows his/her job in every circumstances and know how the react correctly

maybe i'm too basic but heh^^

Kaelia · 2008-06-29 17:37

All this talk about understanding one's job and being adaptable is over-complicated. In order to evaluate whether or not a player is advanced, just divide his post count in bg's Advanced Forums by 0. Does he still exist? If yes, he is advanced.

**Tempyst** · 2008-06-29 23:17

Originally Posted by Starr

Oh and they can't be one of those people with BRD RDM or BLM levelled yet say shit like "they're retired" and won't play them, that's noob.

bull, I leveled my RDM to 75 when the game was released. Keeping gear for a job I hate because I didn't know it would be boring as shit at end game 5 years ago is moronic. Likewise on my PLD- I loved playing it in exp and BCNMs, did not care for it at all in endgame events.

Granted, someone leveling BRD, RDM, or BLM in this day and age knows what they're getting themselves into and it's why I won't touch any of them

**Kabbalah** · 2008-06-30 00:34

Being an advanced player means you give a shit about your job and expect other people to give a shit about their jobs.

Without that, you're just another loot whore.

**Furionstormrage** · 2008-06-30 01:41

Originally Posted by Kabbalah

Being an advanced player means you give a shit about your job and expect other people to give a shit about their jobs.

Without that, you're just another loot whore.

Well put. The players that have always stood out to me are the ones who research their job, have builds for situational use, and expect others to do the same. (If I have one more DRK applying without anything to zerg with, or another PLD with no MDB gear....I could go on)

**Kimkytaru** · 2008-06-30 02:34

Advanced Player in 2008 for me is :

Someone that knows his job mechanics and how to use them. Someone that wont panic when something happen but will stay cold head and make quick deciscions and good one. Also someone that is doing research on his job and the most important part, someone that is capable of following what is happening. I hate when you have to repeat stuff 10 times cause people dont follow chat and ask 10 times the same question

Equipement doesnt mean shit, all you need to have good gears is beeing able to play/pay a lot, skill was never a part of the equation.

Zoot · 2008-06-30 09:28

Better gear will always make a good player better, but there's this misconception that "if I had a dalmatica" or "if I had a crimson cuisses or an adaman hauberk" that you could become better, but more often people obtain these items and don't use them to their greatest benefit. For example, you have a mage that thinks dalmatica or morrigan's robe is all so important to have, and yet upon obtaining said item changes nothing about their playstyle because they weren't pushing thier limits to the max beforehand anyways. What they have become now is the same player, with a dalmatica.

On the same level, you have people who understand the benefit certain drops have for their teammates over themselves and choose to pass pieces of gear which might otherwise allow them to complete a set in salvage or put a little extra damage into their weapon skill- because they have faith that their teammates are just as good players as they are or will make equal or better use of it. This is a matter of personal opinion, but a decision I think many players among other skilled players who are also friends make constantly.

I know a few player's with Maat's cap, and while I do respect some of them, I don't consider them advanced for having one. Maat's cap is marginally better than some other gear I have for a huge time investment which can otherwise be spent upgrading and maximizing the jobs you particularly care about rather than leveling many to 66.

While merits are very good to have, having the correct ones or at least a goal to obtain them is more important to me than having them all capped out. Having four jobs I play regularly, only one of those jobs is completely capped in merits - and even then, I'm undecided as to where to put my last two attributes.

I know a few different "types" of advanced players. The melee who understands the situation and prepares for it accordingly, whether that mean having and using an "oh, shit" macro appropriately, having a different sub job when the situation calls for it, using JA's timely and appropriately, engaging the correct mob in sequential order or choosing what hands to use in their weapon skill macro.

The tank who knows it's better to share hate in this situation rather than hog it, and has a macro to decrease their HP to cure themselves as well as a stpc macro to cure others, knows when utsusemi is going to be gone just by gauging the attack speed of the mob, knows when to recast between attacks, or uses stun or provoke at the correct times.

The support type player who doesn't just want gear to have it, but to maximize their barspell or convert and uses these spells appropriately, understands what situation to use their various curative spells in and that not every situation is going to call for the same type of healing or nuking, whether that mean using Cure III instead of regen III for 200 HP, curing melees outside your own party in a multiple party or alliance situation, having a decent HMP macro and using HMP food and actually resting when the situation is appropriate, standing outside of AoE range but inside of cure range, Water IV instead of Thunder IV, or concentrating on crowd control and keeping yourself alive instead of nuking.

There is the observer type who sees everything that is going on and leads by choice, who may not be as gear-specific as other players but gets the job done because he sees the forest through the trees. This type of player can pull an entire event and multi alliances together through both experience and control, understanding diplomacy and game mechanics. They make decisions at the drop of a hat that decide whether or not the entire team passes or fails.

But something that all of these types of players share is progress, never believing they cannot improve upon themselves or a situation. And once they have improved its efficiency to maximum potential, moving on to the next thing that can be improved. And this spreads across many surfaces, from gearsets to salvage runs to HNM fights.

What I consider a non-advanced player is someone who stands around instead of taking initiative, someone who wants gear just to have it, a player who asks me constantly how to do something when information is readily available to them, a person who doesn't understand that improving their knowledge and efficiency improves the entire team, and who doesn't make it a priority to become better at what they do.