Working Out

[Tonko]

I'm a supervisor at a gym (Lifetime Fitness) so I hear a LOT from the PTs who know me. They'll come out while I'm working out and chat, and give me free training, since I help their department out alot when I can. Many of them drop by to talk during the day, and I pick their brains. What I use, is what I hear most often, and see working for their clients, and for the PTs themselves.

I've never studied any particular training program or read much on the subject. What I do, I do because it makes sense from a physiological point of view, and on the advice of people who have more experience than I do (the PTs at work are VERY well built.) I've seen the results happen after I started working there, and listened to their advice. But remember, every body is different. Much like an antibiotic designed to kill a bacteria, doesn't mean it will work for every person who takes it, due to the possible differences in metabolic function from person to person.

Before, I would workout, and month after month, just feel like I was wasting my time. Bad form, bad habits, bad diet (insufficient intake in my case) and lack of consistency were all problems I used to have.

[Ryushii]

Umm, okay so with all the research I did and suggestions and everything, I came up with this final workout plan:

Both days start with about 10 minutes of cardio (1-2 miles jogging on an indoor track)
3 workouts a week, and two different lifting workouts:
Day A
Triceps Extension 3x8
Hammer Curl 3x8
Shoulder Press 3x8
Bench Press 3x8
Fly 3x8
All with dumbbells, and all with Tonko's suggestion of a 4th set up until I hit failure.
Day B
Dumbbell Curl 3x8
Back Delt (machine) 3x8
Pull-Ups (machine) 3x8
Squats 3x8
Lunges 3x8
Same thing as above, except when marked.

With this I cover triceps, biceps, shoulders, forearms, chest, back, and legs. I still need to figure out what to do for abs, but for now I have this. Thank you all for all your help and suggestions, after a few workouts I think I'm starting to kind of enjoy this!

[Tonko]

You're missing your 4th set :-p

[Meat]

and dont worry about abs, you'll get all the ab work u need from compound lifts

[Nystul]

Huge difference. You think you're hitting muscle failure now, but you might not be. On the 4th set, you go, until you can't complete a full range of motion on a rep. But keep going, as far as you can go, until you can't move the weight beyond the starting position at all. Even then, try, and push for 5 seconds. You'll notice a difference, I used to do 3 sets as well, started seeing very nice gains on both strength and size after a friend clued me in.

To repeat: First 3 sets gauge if you're using too MUCH weight. If you can't get through them all, decrease the weight in 2 days when you try it again. You should just barely be able to squeeze out the last set.

4th set tells you if you're using too little weight. If you complete it, even with max effort and barely making it, you need more weight next time.

And be sure you're doing slow, even reps. "Explosive ups" as they're called, are counter productive. They break form, elicit the assistance of muscles not being targeted, and cheat your body out of the full effort in a rep. Depending on the exercise, you want 2 second up, 2 second down. The negative motion is equally as important as the positive motion.

I'll agree with the 4th set- when I first started about a year and a half ago I did the usual fast progress then level off. It wasn't until I had a session with a trainer that added a 4th set to most of my exercises and it helped a lot. I didn't go up in weight a huge amount but I could start seeing visible results.

Also HUGE yes about the negative motion vs positive motion. That is so true and I see so many people doing these jerky ugly way too much weight reps where they explode up and plop back. It does nothing for you aside from make you more likely to injure yourself. If you can't control the weight then you're using too much. Go to the gym to improve your body, not to impress other people.

Finally, about the machines that some have talked about- if you're starting out new they are immensely useful. I'd suggest the OP start out using mostly machines to build up some basic strength before moving into free weights. It also teaches you a little about proper form etc. Free weights are better, for sure. But machines have their place.

[archibaldcrane]

No deadlifts in there makes me cry. No exercise I do at the gym makes me feel better when I'm done than deadlifts, plus you don't have any lower back-targeting exercise.

I'd also err away from strict "3X8" set workouts. I usually do acending weight loads over 3-4 sets - usually like 8-5-3 reps (2nd and 3rd to failure) with more weight on the 2nd and more still on the 3rd set. IMO "3X8" is for maintaining and getting lean, not putting on mass.

[Ryushii]

Day A
Triceps Extension 3x8
Hammer Curl 3x8
Shoulder Press 3x8
Bench Press 3x8
Fly 3x8
All with dumbbells, and all with Tonko's suggestion of a 4th set up until I hit failure.
Day B
Dumbbell Curl 3x8
Back Delt (machine) 3x8
Pull-Ups (machine) 3x8
Squats 3x8
Lunges 3x8
Same thing as above, except when marked.

I did say 4th set, just not a complete one. Didn't know how else to notate it (cause I'm not really doing 4x8).

Um, would you really suggest deadlifts? I looked em up and they seem kind of difficult, but maybe I'm just being a pansy.

Also, the resource I've been using doesn't specify any exercises for lower back, just for general back and a bunch of muscle groups. Any other suggestions for lower back?

[Nystul]

Dead lifts are "advanced" exercises. If you don't already have some level of fitness and if you don't know proper form (and you haven't learned how to stop when your form starts to go to shit) you can hurt yourself pretty easily.

If you want to do lower back there are plenty of other things that you can do to work up to a dead lifts.

[Ryany]

I'm very happy to see some educated people putting in a good word for deadlifts. Every routine should include them. The sheer number of muscles involved in the lift make it the best mass-building exercise in the opinion of a lot of people. (and don't worry for people that just want to "tone" because you won't get bigger unless you eat an excess number of calories, which would just go to fat anyway if you weren't working out)

Deadlift isn't really an advanced exercise in terms of difficulty to perform. I guess you could apply the "advanced" part in that most "advanced" lifters include it in their routine. You could argue that it is the simplest exercise there is in terms of the mechanics of it. It really is just standing up straight while holding a bar. It also is the closest gym lift to real-world strength since most real-world lifting requires picking something up off the ground.

A lot of people badmouth it due to the higher risk of a herniated disc, but that only really happens if the lift is not done properly. I can almost guarantee you that deadlift is the safest of the 3 powerlifts. Squats involve a weight on your shoulders that could roll over the back of your neck if you lean too far forward on the lift, bench has a bunch of weight that could drop on your neck and face, while deadlift has the weight safely in front of your body, so if you happened to drop the weight, it would graze you at the worst. I've never understood why deadlifts get the most criticism on safety where as bench press is probably the most dangerous lift out there. (and the most commonly done) My only guess is it is some ignorant chiropractor that has no experience lifting and tries to stretch his or her knowledge outside his or her field of expertise.

Once you progress some on deadlifts, you likely will need to use chalk or straps because your back strength will likely be stronger than your grip strength. If your gym allows chalk, I'd advise to use it over straps because you get a free grip strength exercise along with the deadlift. Also find the bar with the best knurling in the gym and remember to use that every time you deadlift. The more rugged, the knurling, the better the grip you will have. I will wait for 1 bar for deadlifts at the gym I work out at.

Random Thoughts:
There is no right or wrong way to do a certain routine. Some people are getting dangerously close to sounding like if everyone doesn't do their same routine or set/rep range that it isn't a correct workout. Like mentioned above, everyone will respond differently and just because something works great for one person doesn't mean it will for the next. You also have too many outside factors to count that vary between person to person. (such as lifestyle, sleep, diet, drug use, etc.)

One compound lift is probably the equivalent of 4-5 different isolation exercises. Most people are so high on the compound lifts for that reason with how efficient they are.

Overtraining can come a lot easier than you think. You don't need to do 20 different sets for 20 different muscle groups to see progress. Also keep in mind that a lot of those "famous bodybuilder routines" you see in magazines are routines that are done with the assistance of steroids which lets their body recover a lot faster than someone that is lifting drug-free.

Tone is your bodyfat compared to your muscle. The more muscle and less fat you have, the more toned you will be. The less muscle and the more fat you have, the less toned you will be. You aren't going to see some person with 30% bodyfat and a 6 pack regardless of how many reps or how much weight they lift.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I got a random question. How good is the machine that helps you do pull-ups/chin-ups? The one that gives you weights to offset your own weight.

[Denchi]

How many pullups can you guys do? I'm curious about that.

[Ryany]

I got a random question. How good is the machine that helps you do pull-ups/chin-ups? The one that gives you weights to offset your own weight.

I've never used it, but I'd say it is good for people that can only do 1-2 pullups or whatever so they can still do the lift in their desired rep range and eventually work their way out of it to doing bodyweight or weighted pullups. I guess you could sort of call them training wheels for regular pullups. (no offense to people that use them)

[Saga]

I've never used it, but I'd say it is good for people that can only do 1-2 pullups or whatever so they can still do the lift in their desired rep range and eventually work their way out of it to doing bodyweight or weighted pullups. I guess you could sort of call them training wheels for regular pullups. (no offense to people that use them)

are you talking about the lateral pull down machine?

[Sanoske]

are you talking about the lateral pull down machine?

No, its a machine with pullup bars, and there is a platform which you put your knees on, and if needed it will give you weight assistance in pushing you up.

I use it myself on the day I work arms/back. I can do pullups without assistance, but I cant do more than a few on the machine, simply because of how far apart the bars are. (plus I do wide grip pullups in my routine)

[Talus]

Deadlifts/squats are some of the most beneficial lifts but also the ones where if you're a complete novice, you really need someone to show you the correct form. Don't put your back on the line with bad form, because you will tweak it, and in hindsight wish you hadn't been too stubborn to ask for help.

[Nystul]

I got a random question. How good is the machine that helps you do pull-ups/chin-ups? The one that gives you weights to offset your own weight.

I'm 100% in love with these things. It is a compound exercise- I even feel it in my abs the next day so you're working a lot. Plus most allow you to do both assisted chinups and dips. If you're just not strong enough to do a chinup because of lack of muscle or too much body weight or both then this is a nice exercise to work into your routine.

[Ryushii]

If you want to do lower back there are plenty of other things that you can do to work up to a dead lifts.

Any suggestions?

[Meat]

Any suggestions?

does your gym have one of these

http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/Erect...kExtension.gif

[archibaldcrane]

My gym also has a lower back "extension" apparatus where you are resting on the front of your hips with your legs straight, facing the ground (kinda hard to explain) and you bend forward towards the ground at your waist and then flex your lower back to return to a horizontal position. You can grip weight plates in your arms to your chest while you do it for more resistance.
http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/JMU_Sum...s/Image227.jpg
I used to do that before I started deadlifts - it was ok for lower back, but I didn't like the blood rushing to my head.

I love deadlifts, but they are kinda crazy when you first start. I started with 135 and after doing about 8 of them I felt like I wanted to completely pass out the first couple times, but I quickly was about to build up to my current strength (after 4 months or so) doing 185X8, 195X6, 205X4 or so. I've done 225 before, but I'm not confident enough in my form to really push my one-rep max much, not worth it for me.

Basically as long as you don't let your spine curve as you come up, they are safe - the only risk is when your spine curves it puts uneven pressure on the two sides of a cervical vertebrae and can cause you to slip a disk if you have too much weight. They will kick your ass even at light weights to start, so don't worry about not doing enough weight at first. Just starting with a 35 on each side (I don't know how big you are really, but adult males should be able to do 115 fine to start I think) and work your way up from there slowly.

[Meat]

you can also try "good mornings" but that's another advanced lift