Tier 1-4 ZNMs Discussion

[Kaylia]

Charmrosh: spamming bio I/ Dia I on him get him locked on those spells until he does charm , afterwards it didn't work ( fought twice).

Ob: using 2x ice manouver before spawning him , then just leaving your pup alone, will make him change to red hat. with a TP burn PT all of his spells got interrupted, and we barely cured.

Dextrose: Spamming dispel on him will lock him also on trying to get amplification up , he seems not using spells until he get amplification up. also melee do interrupt his spells very easily , and although he has fast cast its NOT instant cast.

Armed Gears: as long as your mages on 20' range you wouldnt get hit by any laser cannons , can be solo tank easily , while the rest of PT blms + a rdm

Mahjlaef the Paintorn: I dont see how some ppl suggested Kiting him , since he barely do any AoE III , and he is stunnable , you can just kill him in normal having 2 tanks and 1-2 /thfs , rdm/drk and whm . and if MP low or tanks get bad dmg or something , can kite until ready again.

Exper Lamia: if its your first time its better to have someone sac pull it and die near the ledge , then tractor that person while zoning her from the zone you came from. since you dont want to wipe and have her go back to her spawn point and you cant follow , cause of the 3 levels ground there.

anyways she doesnt link with any of her lesser lamias , and wont re-summon them again, so you should have 1 person zoning the lamia while you kill her smns 1 by 1 then her.

Just did Mahjlaef for the first time. It will only spam aga when shield is up, or at least, that's what it seemed like.

thought if you dispeled armed gears enspell they just recast a different one? Also could you add what drops what and stats and such on each item? Would be lovely

That was the plan initially, but I gave up because it was taking too long to write already. If someone want to write a compilation, I will include it once it will be over (I guess I could steal the one posted in previous thread if the poster don't mind)

[Rocl]

Since I noticed you don't have any info on Claret and I had the misfortune of wasting 1000 zeni on a pop >_>

He won't melee you at all, it seems to only do TP moves. It also sits on you like the Slug NM in Rolanberry, and upon making contact it gives you a KILLER poison (I think it was 50hp/tic?). One TP move it used, I had never seen before, called Epoxy Spread, which did AoE Bind. Gravity landed, not sure about Bind, we wiped with ~4 because we took too long clearing the Clots on the way out and they repopped after we spawned Claret and we aggroed them running out.

Unfortunately, that's all I know >_>

[Demonlord]

Strat for claret that worked for my group was to just have the popper make a long run around and come back up. Pld/Nin standing on top of the ledge to flash claret as it was popped and kite it around the wamouracampa area. 100hp/tic poison is the big thing to note. otherwise grav/kite and nuke the crap out of it. don't bring melee at all, just too much a pain in the ass to spam poisonas everytime the poison gets reapplied just by being in range.

[Judai]

thought if you dispeled armed gears enspell they just recast a different one? Also could you add what drops what and stats and such on each item? Would be lovely

Sometimes it does.. Most times it doesn't for awhile and it cures/buffs itself over and over and wastes more time then helps. It's best just to nuke against w/e it decides to cast, even if that means nuking Stone.

Just killed 2 Flayer, joke to t2t, solo tank. PLD,BRD,WHM,RDM,3BLM,THF

[Kaylia]

Since I noticed you don't have any info on Claret and I had the misfortune of wasting 1000 zeni on a pop >_>

He won't melee you at all, it seems to only do TP moves. It also sits on you like the Slug NM in Rolanberry, and upon making contact it gives you a KILLER poison (I think it was 50hp/tic?). One TP move it used, I had never seen before, called Epoxy Spread, which did AoE Bind. Gravity landed, not sure about Bind, we wiped with ~4 because we took too long clearing the Clots on the way out and they repopped after we spawned Claret and we aggroed them running out.

Unfortunately, that's all I know >_>

Yeah, never done that one, just stole info off wiki to write its entry .

The one I never fought is skeleton, claret and lamia (but we are about to fight it)

[Spira]

very nice..
i love how u used the spoiler tags to make it neat..

good for people too cos you have to wade thru PW specu stuff in the other thread now..
and 90+ pages is a tough read.

[Kaylia]

very nice..
i love how u used the spoiler tags to make it neat..

good for people too cos you have to wade thru PW specu stuff in the other thread now..
and 90+ pages is a tough read.

Say that to killerx, it was his idea to put spoiler tag.



Fighting orobon atm, and where is the best place to kite it? we used the apkallu king area (which is fine), but there isnt many place to loop around. I was just wondering if there is a better area

[Mojo]

I can't speak for every NM on the list(I've yet to do Vulpangue, Claret, Velionis, Lil' Apkallu, Iriri Samariri, Lividroot Amooshah, Reaction, Zareehkl, and Verdelet), but I've done every other NM several times and completely disagree with the notion that most of these are better done BLM zerg style. Manaburn has its place and is definitely superior in some cases, but there is no reason to turn what could be a five minute fight into a 20-30 minute RNG/BLM onry marathon. Most of the harmful AoEs can be avoided with good positioning and the occasional use of Stun. I'd much rather take a balanced group for nearly every single one of these over something lopsided that would result in consuming more of my time.

Nuhn can easily be kited in the room you pop him in.

[Judai]

I can't speak for every NM on the list(I've yet to do Vulpangue, Claret, Velionis, Lil' Apkallu, Iriri Samariri, Lividroot Amooshah, Reaction, Zareehkl, and Verdelet), but I've done every other NM several times and completely disagree with the notion that most of these are better done BLM zerg style. Manaburn has its place and is definitely superior in some cases, but there is no reason to turn what could be a five minute fight into a 20-30 minute RNG/BLM onry marathon. Most of the harmful AoEs can be avoided with good positioning and the occasional use of Stun. I'd much rather take a balanced group for nearly every single one of these over something lopsided that would result in consuming more of my time.

Nuhn can easily be kited in the room you pop him in.

We have killed almost everyone of these in 10-15m with 7-8 people, using mainly BLMs(only kited Mamool and Nuhn). Only one that was long was Mamool and that's because he Cures himself and Bene's. If people are taking 30m to kill these with any strat, that's pretty bad.

[Ruiner]

A drop list for each mob would be helpful, just for completion's sake if you're making a compilation of ZNMs.

[Spartin]

Iriz Ima actually links with Grand Marids. If one is up you are going to have to zone the Grand Marid. Lucky I wasn't doing this solo or it would have been ugly.

[Kaylia]

Iriz Ima actually links with Grand Marids. If one is up you are going to have to zone the Grand Marid. Lucky I wasn't doing this solo or it would have been ugly.

Ugh...can anyone else confirm this? I've done it like 15 times and never got any links. Is it possible someone just aggroed it?

[Kaylia]

I can't speak for every NM on the list(I've yet to do Vulpangue, Claret, Velionis, Lil' Apkallu, Iriri Samariri, Lividroot Amooshah, Reaction, Zareehkl, and Verdelet), but I've done every other NM several times and completely disagree with the notion that most of these are better done BLM zerg style. Manaburn has its place and is definitely superior in some cases, but there is no reason to turn what could be a five minute fight into a 20-30 minute RNG/BLM onry marathon. Most of the harmful AoEs can be avoided with good positioning and the occasional use of Stun. I'd much rather take a balanced group for nearly every single one of these over something lopsided that would result in consuming more of my time.

Nuhn can easily be kited in the room you pop him in.

I failed to send my first reply it seem..

I agree melee do fine in some case, and I try listing it, but seriously, manaburn is usually quick, painless and the easiest method to execute if you want to go with 6-7ppl (including a thief for drop). If you have melee, you will most likely need additional healers and it wouldnt be as easy. If you got 12-18 people, go for it and zerg those ZNM, but yeah...

If you think I ommited situation where a party could kill those NM easily in 5minutes without any risks, than list your strategy, I will gladly add it.

[Rocl]

Iriz Ima actually links with Grand Marids. If one is up you are going to have to zone the Grand Marid. Lucky I wasn't doing this solo or it would have been ugly.

Ugh...can anyone else confirm this? I've done it like 15 times and never got any links. Is it possible someone just aggroed it?

To be fair Grand Marids are different than normal Marids, but never seen it personally >.>

[Spira]

another good point to note is marids / grand marids dont aggro

grand marids link to normal marids but not the other way round.. (according to otherwiki)

[Mojo]

Melee is fine in most cases and quicker too. I'm not talking about a melee zerg either, just a balanced set up of a good tank and two well equipped, intelligent melee.

Gotoh Zha is a good example of this. In the two times I can remember well we had a whooping total of one black mage yet managed to wreck him in around five minutes each time. The difficulty presented by Groundburst is highly exaggerated. With good positioning it should only be hitting a few people and isn't likely to instantly kill them. We had a whopping total of one Groundburst per fight.

Mahjlaef is another case where melee work well. Although it is necessary to have BLM to remove the damage shield, melee take it down pretty quickly when the shield is not up. A few BLM can quickly remove the shield by emptying their mana pool right when it goes up and then begin resting for the next shield while the melee work it down. It's not necessary to kite at all. It's very easy to tank. Again, AoEs aren't even remotely troublesome if you have good positioning.

Nuhn is honestly the only ZNM I've done on which I'd recommend kiting. However, the last time we fought this we had a mixture of melee and BLM. The melee would follow it around(Gravity procs easily and it never seems to build a resistance) and work it down while the tank would kite it and everyone nuked. It never did a single Seismic Tail, not a single person died. Although it would be ideal to have BLM over melee, it can be more practical to retain the same balanced mixture considering that most groups will end up doing Experimental Lamia directly afterwards(in which case it's clearly better to use melee).

I suppose I can post a detailed explanation on every NM but really it's mostly the same general rules. Good positioning, not too many melee, and stunning when appropriate.

[Kaylia]

Iriz Ima actually links with Grand Marids. If one is up you are going to have to zone the Grand Marid. Lucky I wasn't doing this solo or it would have been ugly.

Ugh...can anyone else confirm this? I've done it like 15 times and never got any links. Is it possible someone just aggroed it?

To be fair Grand Marids are different than normal Marids, but never seen it personally >.>

I actually didnt know about Grand marid existence till now..thought it was the nq one >_>

Gotoh Zha is a good example of this. In the two times I can remember well we had a whooping total of one black mage yet managed to wreck him in around five minutes each time. The difficulty presented by Groundburst is highly exaggerated. With good positioning it should only be hitting a few people and isn't likely to instantly kill them. We had a whopping total of one Groundburst per fight.

What setup? I have trouble to believe 3melee can kill this one in 5min

Mahjlaef is another case where melee work well. Although it is necessary to have BLM to remove the damage shield, melee take it down pretty quickly when the shield is not up. A few BLM can quickly remove the shield by emptying their mana pool right when it goes up and then begin resting for the next shield while the melee work it down. It's not necessary to kite at all. It's very easy to tank. Again, AoEs aren't even remotely troublesome if you have good positioning.

We didnt kite either when we killed it. I will reword that part. What I meant is that it's easily kiteable if you're having trouble on the pull (add) or if ppl go down

And you just said you had blm to take down the shield, you will need them anyway. We killed earlier with 7 using 3blm in 20 minutes..of course, if you add melee who know when to back off, you can kill aster, but going with melee alone would probably result in a painful moment when it pop the shield.


And like I said, I'm in the process of writting thiss. I can only base it on my previous experiences with those nm and the few entry I read here and there. It won't be perfect right from the start.

[Myrrial]

Theres little point in arguing over it; people will bring the set-ups that they want to use and work with what they have to overcome the task at hand. There is no one correct way to kill, say, Lividroot. All you have to do is prevent Extremely Bad Breath from wiping everyone.

I have not yet fought every ZNM; but there are ones that I bring melee to (Reacton, Chamrosh, Ob) and ones where kiting just seems far, far safer (Nhun, Lividroot, the Mamool).

I don't think there really is one general all-purpose set-up thats going to work effectively for everything. You sure as hell don't want to put melee on the Puk no matter what. And you'd be a total moron to try and manaburn down the Colibri. Two days ago, I'd have said that the one job that I've had phenominal success with across the board would be SMN; but that ended up not holding true versus the Imp. I'm sure folks can make that work, but not us on that particular run.

The purpose of the guide, as far as I can tell, is to provide a guideline as to what to expect and to show which tools are useful against any particular mob. In a lot of cases, it does make the fight a lot smoother to have a zoneline handy; so I can understand the nod towards mage jobs for many of these fights. Going back to Gotoh Zha for a moment, you either had some amazing stunners or were extremely lucky to eat only one Groundburst per combat. For us he was a sleepga/tier3ga spamming nightmare for 50% of his HP and then a Groundburst throwing machine for the other half. I wouldn't force my friends into the frontlines against that again for all the tea in China.

[Shuemue]

Kaylia, I'm really fucking lazy, could you do me a favour and please add their respective loot pools? Would be really convenient to reference just this thread.

[Vail]

Iriz Ima actually links with Grand Marids. If one is up you are going to have to zone the Grand Marid. Lucky I wasn't doing this solo or it would have been ugly.

Ugh...can anyone else confirm this? I've done it like 15 times and never got any links. Is it possible someone just aggroed it?

I can confirm that grand marids link, we had to deaggro it via runing in the water to get it off us. Was one right next to the pop point, second we popped Iriz Ima, the grand marid immediately came and attacked us.

Wanna add something about Armored gears, had some trouble with him the other day: when he'd go into fire or thunder mode he'd cast one tier III nuke, then stop casting until he was dispelled or enspell wore off. atleast for us, while any other elemental mode he'd alternate tier III nuke -> debuff/buff -> tier III

the other problem was we started the fight with 4, and was doing the slow dot-method, and after about an hour well, it just ran out of MP, for some reason when it has no MP: it'd loose the 2 extra gears with it, but the dmg never went up (for melee or magic dmg) we had to deal with 40 dmg nukes all the way to 0% hp on it, for the last hour it never casted (no MP) and didn't loose it's extreme dmg reduction at any point.