Tier 1-4 ZNMs Discussion

[Guitarman]

You sure as hell don't want to put melee on the Puk no matter what.

We kill it MNK/MNK/RDM/WHM. 10 minute fight each time. Beyond this, yeah i agree no more additional melee should be hitting volp. If you have to have more melee they should build tp on surrounding mobs and ws the puk only or your eating too many aoe.


I find it really hard to believe Redolent can be TP burned down in 5 minutes unless your zerging it like KV. It has a ton of HP and spams groundburst like crazy, especially in WHM mode.

[Conker]

How in the hell can anyone do that mamool in 5 mins even with 18 ppl thing has shit ton of hp not to mention bene lol

[Judai]

Melee is fine in most cases and quicker too. I'm not talking about a melee zerg either, just a balanced set up of a good tank and two well equipped, intelligent melee.

Gotoh Zha is a good example of this. In the two times I can remember well we had a whooping total of one black mage yet managed to wreck him in around five minutes each time. The difficulty presented by Groundburst is highly exaggerated. With good positioning it should only be hitting a few people and isn't likely to instantly kill them. We had a whopping total of one Groundburst per fight.

Mahjlaef is another case where melee work well. Although it is necessary to have BLM to remove the damage shield, melee take it down pretty quickly when the shield is not up. A few BLM can quickly remove the shield by emptying their mana pool right when it goes up and then begin resting for the next shield while the melee work it down. It's not necessary to kite at all. It's very easy to tank. Again, AoEs aren't even remotely troublesome if you have good positioning.

Nuhn is honestly the only ZNM I've done on which I'd recommend kiting. However, the last time we fought this we had a mixture of melee and BLM. The melee would follow it around(Gravity procs easily and it never seems to build a resistance) and work it down while the tank would kite it and everyone nuked. It never did a single Seismic Tail, not a single person died. Although it would be ideal to have BLM over melee, it can be more practical to retain the same balanced mixture considering that most groups will end up doing Experimental Lamia directly afterwards(in which case it's clearly better to use melee).

I suppose I can post a detailed explanation on every NM but really it's mostly the same general rules. Good positioning, not too many melee, and stunning when appropriate.

You are full of shit or "misremembering". GoToh has a fuck ton of HP and bene's, no fucking way you killed it in 5m, especially hen it will spam Groundburst and Firespit and wreck your melee. Maybe if you CS Stun/Zerg it but that's just stupid.

Nobody said, melee suck btw, they just said use melee sparingly and the more melee you bring the more mages you need. The strats listed are easy small mans, not bring an ally of mages to cure and ally of melee for some gimp NM. Killing any of these with 7 people in 10m is alot easier with BLMs, imo. I've also solo tanked every single one easily, except for Vampyr and his charm shit that was a minor nuisance.

[Kaylia]

Kaylia, I'm really fucking lazy, could you do me a favour and please add their respective loot pools? Would be really convenient to reference just this thread.

Like I said on last page, I will try adding them once I finish the first post. (I'm done with znm for the night, so it will be faster)

However, if someone could list every drop in a forum format that I could use, it would help me greatly D:

Wanna add something about Armored gears, had some trouble with him the other day: when he'd go into fire or thunder mode he'd cast one tier III nuke, then stop casting until he was dispelled or enspell wore off. atleast for us, while any other elemental mode he'd alternate tier III nuke -> debuff/buff -> tier III

the other problem was we started the fight with 4, and was doing the slow dot-method, and after about an hour well, it just ran out of MP, for some reason when it has no MP: it'd loose the 2 extra gears with it, but the dmg never went up (for melee or magic dmg) we had to deal with 40 dmg nukes all the way to 0% hp on it, for the last hour it never casted (no MP) and didn't loose it's extreme dmg reduction at any point.

Will add it in a bit, thanks

[Myrrial]

You sure as hell don't want to put melee on the Puk no matter what.

We kill it MNK/MNK/RDM/WHM. 10 minute fight each time. Beyond this, yeah i agree no more additional melee should be hitting volp. If you have to have more melee they should build tp on surrounding mobs and ws the puk only or your eating too many aoe.


I find it really hard to believe Redolent can be TP burned down in 5 minutes unless your zerging it like KV. It has a ton of HP and spams groundburst like crazy, especially in WHM mode.

MNK, MNK, RDM, WHM on Puk?! You guys are bold. Is Hundred Fists necessary to do that? I can't imagine going out there and trying that. If we have anyone directly engage it at all its a lone PLD/NIN to minimize enemy TP gain; and if we can't bring one then Garuda spam becomes our frontline; because she'll take 300ish in Windshear damage whereas the rest of us get floored. Those two plans have worked far better for us than the "standard" fight scenario or trying to DoT/Nuke/Zone it. Or to Manaburn it down.

As for Redolent; theres no way he dies in five minutes. If you brought an army I could maybe see it. But if you bring a crapton of melee you're going to utterly screw your healers' MP and I don't see that really being an intelligent tactic. Maybe, -maybe- if everyone stored up 300% TP beforehand and you superzerged it down like Kirin or Jailer of Hope. With less than infinity melee, simply no. Benediction alone will stop that. And Groundburst will severely slow it down when people explode.

[Judai]

Tinnin Path

Vulpangue: Slyphid Epee, Karura Hachigane

Charosh: Dragoon's Earring, Erato's Cape

Cheese Hoarder Gigroon: Beast slayer, Armadillo Cuisses

Iriz Ima: Ferrara, Avocat Pigaches

Iriri Samariri: Toad Mittens, Paddock Trousers

Lividroot Amooshah: Reikyo Hairpin, Nobushi Kyahan

Armed Gears: Tomoe, Oracle's Gloves, Aurum Sabatons, Earth and Thunder Grips

Gotoh Zha the Redolent: Naglering, Enkidu's Mittens, Aurum Cuisses, Water and Light Grips

Dea: Cletine, Enkidu's Subligar, Oracle's Pigaches, Fire and Dark Grips

Tinnin: Alkalurops, Shusui, Enkidu's Harness, Hachiryu Sune-ate, Enkidu's Cap, Oracle's Cap

Sarameya Path

Brass Borer: Lion Tamer, Rittenhentzes

Claret: Kerykeion, Almah Torque

Ob: Guignol Earring, Coiler, Steam Jacket, Attuner, Tactical Processor, Drum Magazine, Equalizer, Target Maker, Mana Channeler, Eraser, Smoke Screen

Anantaboga: Trilling Dagger, Hacchonenbutsu Dangozashi

Reacton: Reacton Arm, Magic Strap

Dextrose: Achilles Spear, Ruby Seraweels

Nosferatu: Labrys, Aurum Gauntlet's, Enkidu's Leggings, Earth and Wind Grips

Khromasoul Bhurborlor: Simba Buckler, Oracle's Gloves, Enkidu's Subligar, Ice and Dark Grips

Achamoth: Oragnics, Oracle's Braconi, Aurum Sabatons, Ice and Thunder Grips

Sarameya: Foolkiller, Pachipachio, Oracle's Robe, Hachiryu Haidate, Aurum Armet, Oracle's Cap

Tyger Path

Valiones: White Joker, Corsair's Belt

Lil' Apkallu: Hakke Habaki, Numerist Pumps

Chigre: Blood Ring, Insect Ring

Zareehkl the Jubilant: Zareehkl Jambiya, Zareehkl Scyhte

Verdelet: Muse Tariqah, Solitare Cape

Wulgaru: Riot Shield, Hissho Hachimaki

Mahjlaef the Paintorn: Legion Scutum, Aurum Gauntlets, Oracle's Braconi, Fire and Thunder Grips

Experimental Lamia: Mekki Shakki, Aurum Cuisses, Enkidu's Leggings, Earth and Water Grips

Nuhn: Oninohocho, Enkidu's Mittens, Oracle's Pigaches, Wind and Light Grips

Tyger: Antares, Enforcer, Aurum Cuirass, Hachiryu Kote, Aurum Armet, Enkidu's Cap

[Zilong]

I do vulp plenty of time with combination of 2 NIN or MNK for melee with RDM + BRD support and random BLM for extra killspeed. Land elegy, slow II, para II on him, and he'd be a pretty easy fight if whoever's tanking try keep ~2 shadows if they're NIN, and not counterstance if they're MNK.

[Ruiner]

Tinnin Path

Vulpangue: Slyphid Epee, Karura Hachigane

Charosh: Dragoon's Earring, Erato's Cape

Cheese Hoarder Gigroon: Beast slayer, Armadillo Cuisses

Iriz Ima: Ferrara, Avocat Pigaches

Iriri Samariri: Toad Mittens, Paddock Trousers

Lividroot Amooshah: Reikyo Hairpin, Nobushi Kyahan

Armed Gears: Tomoe, Oracle's Gloves, Aurum Sabatons, Earth and Thunder Grips

Gotoh Zha the Redolent: Naglering, Enkidu's Mittens, Aurum Cuisses, Water and Light Grips

Dea: Cletine, Enkidu's Subligar, Oracle's Pigaches, Fire and Dark Grips

Tinnin: Alkalurops, Shusui, Enkidu's Harness, Hachiryu Sune-ate, Enkidu's Cap, Oracle's Cap

Sarameya Path

Brass Borer: Lion Tamer, Rittenhentzes

Claret: Kerykeion, Almah Torque

Ob: Guignol Earring, Lots of Pup attachments

Anantaboga: Trilling Dagger, Hacchonenbutsu Dangozashi

Reacton: Reacton Arm, Magic Strap

Dextrose: Achilles Spear, Ruby Seraweels

Nosferatu: Labrys, Aurum Gauntlet's, Enkidu's Leggings, Earth and Wind Grips

Khromasoul Bhurborlor: Simba Buckler, Oracle's Gloves, Enkidu's Subligar, Ice and Dark Grips

Achamoth: Oragnics, Oracle's Braconi, Aurum Sabatons, Ice and Thunder Grips

Sarameya: Foolkiller, Pachipachio, Oracle's Robe, Hachiryu Haidate, Aurum Armet, Oracle's Cap

Tyger Path

Valiones: White Joker, Corsair's Belt

Lil' Apkallu: Hakke Habaki, Numerist Pumps

Chigre: Blood Ring, Insect Ring

Zareehkl the Jubilant: Zareehkl Jambiya, Zareehkl Scyhte

Verdelet: Muse Tariqah, Solitare Cape

Wulgaru: Riot Shield, Hissho Hachimaki

Mahjlaef the Paintorn: Legion Scutum, Aurum Gauntlets, Oracle's Braconi, Fire and Thunder Grips

Experimental Lamia: Mekki Shakki, Aurum Cuisses, Enkidu's Leggings, Earth and Water Grips

Nuhn: Oninohocho, Enkidu's Mittens, Oracle's Pigaches, Wind and Light Grips

Tyger: Antares, Enforcer, Aurum Cuirass, Hachiryu Kote, Aurum Armet, Enkidu's Cap

Thank you muchly.

[Guitarman]

MNK, MNK, RDM, WHM on Puk?! You guys are bold. Is Hundred Fists necessary to do that?

No, no 2hr needed at all. Keep baraera up (duh). I use rajas and just eat sole sushi. the rajas + black belt gives me +10 subtle blow, which is really nice to minimize volp's tp gain. Myself and the other monk both have black belts, though its hardly necessary. Keep slow2 on him and just trade hate best you can. Make sure your mages are keeping the monks hasted at all times. Beyond that it's a really simple fight. We rarely get into orange HP. I'll pop counterstance just as a hate spike if the other monk is hurting or cant get shadows back up; I immediately take it off after. Helps i have max counter merits too. Have both monks face opposite each other as you fight, so only one gets hit with crosswind. I like to have my back against the bushes so i dont fly anywhere when i get hit with it. Just keep mages FAAAR back; max casting range. Monks can handle a wind shear, mages rarely can.

Edit: monks are MNK/NIN, obviously.

[Kaylia]

Baraera wont do shit, puk have no wind based magic ability? Or do they? I thought all their move were physical, despite having wind in the name.

And thanks jud Can you add the weapon picture (or link it to the wiki) now!

[Guitarman]

Baraera works..at least i'm fairly certain it does. I've noticed a pretty substantial difference when its up vs when its not when eating wind shear. And i'm talking i have no shadows up at all. Usually cuts the damage down to 3-550 range when its above 25%. Below that, 800, max i've eaten was 1250 when he was at around 10% i think? Been a few days im not certain on the details. It's never one shotted me though.

[Kaylia]

I will see next time. Might just be your mnk guarding one of the hit too. Wind Shear doesnt heal puks when it's used on them, so it's definitively not wind based ( unless I'm missing something).


If anyone got more accurate HP value for the mob, list them please. I went with wiki info most of them time, or made huge guess based on the "%" every nuke were taking off. It's most likely 10k off in many case

[Yutuyu]

Some stuff to add from my own experience:

Vulpagne: NIN works best as tank, definitely not PLD/NIN. Very easy to EVA tank it. With all of the debuffs up from an RDM & BRD he's a pathetic joke to tank even without EVA gear on NIN, then you just slowly whittle him down with Katanas. An unlucky windshear can still kill you at low HP, but your RDM should be able to land bind, and then nuke down if that happens.

Cheese Hoarder Gigiroon: Bomb damage is heavily overstated on most threads. With the proper defensive spells up (Shell IV or greater, barfira) his bombs are nothing to worry about. Fairly easily in general, doesn't hit too hard, and runs away after a few seconds of fighting, it's just long. Pull him to the teleporters and just let him run back and forth to you again and again until he dies. He has a TP move which temporarily locks several of your equipment slots, but by the time he comes back from running it will have worn off.

Chigre: Super hate ADD. I'm guessing he just has some sort of strange behavior programmed where hate decays very fast, because it can still be grabbed for a moment, just goes away quickly. The more annoying status effects and HP absorb tend to occur rarely (i.e. petrify) unless you're inflicted with the lower status effects. Very, very high evasion. Was having trouble landing weapon skills on him on SAM with Hasso up and decent WS ACC, recommended to bring a buffer for ACC+ and maybe even sushi. Goes down fast if/when you hit.

Lil Apkallu: Rarely uses the paralyze move. Mostly focuses on yawning then going to the AOE damage. I originally thought that as HP goes down the amount of AOEs he spams goes up (i.e. he cannot use 2-3 during the first 75%) this turns out to be untrue as far as I can tell. The ability to stun him is a godsend, you can use it to kite him during hundred fists or block his TP moves. Doesn't hit too hard really. Probably very easily doable by a tank/DD with a nice defense/damage taken reduction set and a WHM or RDM.

Verdelet: This imp basically just spams spells and occaisionally a TP move when he's good for it. His horn breaks throughout the fight and then he'll use Frenetic Rip, after which it grows back and he returns to using AOE Silence or Amnesia. Frenetic Rip is very painful (to the tune of 1000+ damage to a melee without berserk up or any defensive capability) however it's fairly rare. The Amnesia/Silence is annoying but he's very TP burnable with some good DDs and some decent healers. We found it very risky with 6 people unless everyone involved is experience and geared out the ass, with 8 it was a joke. Just lots of magic damage being dished out on your party, which makes healing/hate holding difficult (if it's not one it's the other) for a small party.

Iriz Imma (or whatever, Avocat Marid): Extremely easy but everyone fighting other than mages MUST sub Ninja. Seigan tanks will die against him. Flailing Trunk goes right through shadows and rapes you in 1 hit quite often. Utsusemi will absorb any TP move however. Does not spawn Chigres. Doesn't seem to use his self heal until the past 50%, Tusk Barrier cannot be dispelled but doesn't last *that* long, Onrush can be blinked (and possibly seigan'd but it doesn't matter as everyone should have Utsusemi). Simply have your melees DD him until their Utsu timers are down, then kite until they get it back up. BLMs can do the same thing without worrying about Utsusemi, but he's really quite killable either way with a very small amount of people. Duo'd in about ~30 minutes with a SAM making skillchains for a BLM.

Armed Gears: Very easy fight, just long. Can be kited by just about any tank with /nin with ease. Doesn't resist stun. Problem is he's very resistant to melee damage and you don't want to feed much TP since he has nasty moves. Use the strategies previously mentioned with BLMs to kill him. Takes about ~40-50 minutes to kill with PLD COR RDM BLM BLM THF (THF only there for TH in 2nd party so couldn't use collaborator which would've helped a lot). Probably doable in much less time with a better group (our 2nd BLM was kinda eh, RDM never nuked, etc). Hate gets screwy towards the end from the BLMs having so much CE built up. Quickdraw is OK DoT. I don't recommend dispelling his enspell unless your BLMs are functionally retarded and don't understand the elemental wheel.

Wulgaru: There's definitely something weird going on with this guy before his arm breaks. Sometimes damage does a hell of a lot more than other times. I think it has to do with hitting him from a certain angle, but during the beginning of the fight you can't really afford to hold him still to do much testing (he spams Dire Straight, which goes through utsu & seigan). Dire Straight did 400-700 damage on a BLU with around ~700 defense (cannonball kiting setup), so I assume it's either not physical damage or random. I'm guessing the body breaks just like weapons on ToAU Beastmen break, a chance of being destroyed by a critical. Most fight it's broken on but one fight he stayed in 1 piece til the very end. The first 25% is just very slow and boring before his arm breaks. With RDM SMN BLU MNK it took around ~50 minutes to kill him.

Chamrosh: Previous data seems correct, however I don't know if it was mentioned that after Charmga he seems to cast randomly, not reflects. As far as I could tell he'd just nuke with wind-based stuff whenever he wanted to from that point on, which makes him significantly harder since he casts everything (including AM) like it's a level 1 spell. Important to cast a DoT around 50% then bring him down quickly and minimize how much he regenerates during Charmga so you don't have to fight him in spell-spam mode very long. But even during that he's not very hard, 6 people never had any trouble with him really; though each time the heaviest DD seemed to die towards the end from TP and Spell spam.

That's all for now.

[Guitarman]

Few of my personal experiences to add to the above post:

Wulgaru: Water shot does a consistent ~300 dmg to him before his arm breaks. COR are great DD for this first part of the fight.

Cheese: Hes a dick. Damage from bombs depends how many he drops. Multiple bombs: each around 150 dmg per explosion, if he drops a single bomb it does around 500. Runs at +12% speed approx. The tp move mentioned above that limits some of your items you can use is called "Strap Cutter". He seems to favor sandspray though; conal blind. He is a THF mob; fairly high eva and can triple attack often. Hits my 75THF for around 330 per hit and rarely misses.

[Kaylia]

Thanks. I will add some of this tomorrow.

About the puk, I'm not sure nin is really better. Not saying it doesnt work, but lower hp than pld might increase the chance to get one shotted by a poorly timed Shear. But since it's a t1, it probably doesnt matter and will die quickly either way.

Also started listing gears. If more people could upload gears picture on the wiki, I will add them to the list. Otherwise, I will just keep the link)

[Myrrial]

Some stuff to add from my own experience:

Vulpagne: NIN works best as tank, definitely not PLD/NIN. Very easy to EVA tank it. With all of the debuffs up from an RDM & BRD he's a pathetic joke to tank even without EVA gear on NIN, then you just slowly whittle him down with Katanas. An unlucky windshear can still kill you at low HP, but your RDM should be able to land bind, and then nuke down if that happens.

We've only had one death since we started using a lone PLD/NIN tank as melee; and the situation leading up to that death involved a Taru BLM and the words "I'm going to try something stupid." Windshear, even when it hits, has not been enough to take down our PLD. And she can Shield Bash the Puk to provide a good opening for recovery. It works too well for us to let me allow the words "definitely not PLD/NIN" to slide without my objection.

Lil Apkallu: Rarely uses the paralyze move. Mostly focuses on yawning then going to the AOE damage. I originally thought that as HP goes down the amount of AOEs he spams goes up (i.e. he cannot use 2-3 during the first 75%) this turns out to be untrue as far as I can tell. The ability to stun him is a godsend, you can use it to kite him during hundred fists or block his TP moves. Doesn't hit too hard really. Probably very easily doable by a tank/DD with a nice defense/damage taken reduction set and a WHM or RDM.

The Paralyze move is a pain in the ass but it seems to be a gaze-attack. This might be common knowledge; but when I was running him around the other night with two SMN our Garuda would get Paralyzed every time by it but whenever we were moving away to gain distance to recast we'd never be afflicted with the Paralyze effect. The Apkallu himself doesn't hit too hard but he does swing quickly; I was able to endure a furious pecking on RDM/WHM while trying to run off his Hundred Fists (I don't have W. Legs so I was running at normal speed and just going in circles) and was able to mitigate the incoming damage down with an Earth Staff, Goliard Trews, and Jelly Ring (with Pro4 and Phalanx obviously). If I were to ever do that again I'd consider maybe /WAR for Defender as well. As a final note, he always seems to do Whirl Wing three times in a row once he decides to do it. Once he gets going he doesn't even care if theres anything within his range anymore; he'll just stand there and toss his green whiring scythe thingies around in circles at nothing.

[Stanislaw]

Tinnin Path

Ob: Guignol Earring, Lots of Pup attachments

I've fought Ob a grand total of seven times, and from my experiences and other drop reports he seems to drop the following:

Guignol Earring, Coiler, Steam Jacket, Attuner, Tactical Processor, Drum Magazine, Equalizer, Target Maker, Mana Channeler, Eraser, Smoke Screen.


Or, in other words, he drops the Guignol Earring, the two new attachments Coiler and Steam Jacket, and all 8 of the Attachments you can get from Pulling the Strings ENM60.

[Mojo]

Melee is fine in most cases and quicker too. I'm not talking about a melee zerg either, just a balanced set up of a good tank and two well equipped, intelligent melee.

Gotoh Zha is a good example of this. In the two times I can remember well we had a whooping total of one black mage yet managed to wreck him in around five minutes each time. The difficulty presented by Groundburst is highly exaggerated. With good positioning it should only be hitting a few people and isn't likely to instantly kill them. We had a whopping total of one Groundburst per fight.

Mahjlaef is another case where melee work well. Although it is necessary to have BLM to remove the damage shield, melee take it down pretty quickly when the shield is not up. A few BLM can quickly remove the shield by emptying their mana pool right when it goes up and then begin resting for the next shield while the melee work it down. It's not necessary to kite at all. It's very easy to tank. Again, AoEs aren't even remotely troublesome if you have good positioning.

Nuhn is honestly the only ZNM I've done on which I'd recommend kiting. However, the last time we fought this we had a mixture of melee and BLM. The melee would follow it around(Gravity procs easily and it never seems to build a resistance) and work it down while the tank would kite it and everyone nuked. It never did a single Seismic Tail, not a single person died. Although it would be ideal to have BLM over melee, it can be more practical to retain the same balanced mixture considering that most groups will end up doing Experimental Lamia directly afterwards(in which case it's clearly better to use melee).

I suppose I can post a detailed explanation on every NM but really it's mostly the same general rules. Good positioning, not too many melee, and stunning when appropriate.

You are full of shit or "misremembering". GoToh has a fuck ton of HP and bene's, no fucking way you killed it in 5m, especially hen it will spam Groundburst and Firespit and wreck your melee. Maybe if you CS Stun/Zerg it but that's just stupid.

Nobody said, melee suck btw, they just said use melee sparingly and the more melee you bring the more mages you need. The strats listed are easy small mans, not bring an ally of mages to cure and ally of melee for some gimp NM. Killing any of these with 7 people in 10m is alot easier with BLMs, imo. I've also solo tanked every single one easily, except for Vampyr and his charm shit that was a minor nuisance.

Once again, Groundburst spam is highly exaggerated. If you cared to at least read what I posted thoroughly or had chosen not to ignore it, you could have taken in to account that in two of our three fights, Groundburst was only used once. None of its other TP moves are very dangerous, especially with a good Paladin tanking. It didn't require anywhere close to an alliance of mages to keep our limited melee alive. I'm sorry you had the experience of having to kite it around the tower and take for fucking ever, but it's not remotely necessary and it's not going to obliterate you if you don't as long as you play intelligently. It does have a fair amount of HP but it doesn't have super high defense. It really won't take that long with a few well geared melee and a Bard.

Anyways, as far as Wulgaru goes I'm pretty sure it's something like this. It begins with a heavy magic and melee resistance. However, attacking it from the very back will sometimes allow you to hit for full physical damage. From 100% > 75% it will continually use Dire Straight. This goes through Utsusemi and Third Eye and deals a considerable amount of damage. When its HP reaches 75%, it will use Detonating Grip once or twice(decent damage AoE, maybe fire based) and its left arm will explode. It then spams Sinker Drill continually, which is similar in damage and nature to Dire Straight. You can get the full physical damage proc from anywhere except the front at this point. If you concentrate your efforts on its other arm, you can blow that one off and it'll just be legs, but I don't recommend this as it's obnoxious and more time consuming to kill unless you have a RNG. I don't know how to get magic to do any kind of respectable damage, if it's even possible.

[Kaylia]

Added more stuff that was listed in this page, gonna finish tomorrow

Once again, Groundburst spam is highly exaggerated. If you cared to at least read what I posted thoroughly or had chosen not to ignore it, you could have taken in to account that in two of our three fights, Groundburst was only used once. None of its other TP moves are very dangerous, especially with a good Paladin tanking. It didn't require anywhere close to an alliance of mages to keep our limited melee alive. I'm sorry you had the experience of having to kite it around the tower and take for fucking ever, but it's not remotely necessary and it's not going to obliterate you if you don't if you play intelligently. It does have a fair amount of HP but it doesn't have super high defense. It really won't take that long with a few well geared melee and a Bard.

You havent said once what kind of alliance you had. 12ppl, 18ppl? First time we fought it, we tried meleeing with a 6 men party and got rapped by aga, and later by groundburst (was used more than once in a short time interval). The 30 minutes kite fest is done with 7 people, which isnt too bad. If you tell me your 5min kill was done with 12 or 18, I'm gonna say that adding 5 more blm would reduce the fight to a short 12minutes kite fest.

[pchan]

Velionis : Did it WHM-RDM-MNK-DRK. Melees wiped at 5% because it has perma chainspell tier3+aga2. I had to kite it in the surrounding apkallu area as rdm and finish it with dots. It is extremly easily to kite since he stops to cast a spell every 2-3 seconds.