How to evaluate mage applicants for your endgame linkshell?

[Darwinion]

It'd have to be a pretty amazing linkshell for me to go through a series of tests.

It wouldn't bother me really..... in fact I think it would be kinda fun to see how I did in those tests. Let's face it, this hypothetical situation is for a trialship in a new linkshell. You'd want to be showing yourself at your best anyway.

Regarding the gearswap thing mentioned earlier, yeah I see the point of it. It is a good idea of course. I was just remembering that I didn't have much when I started out on my WHM. But as you say the gear itself isn't important for that kind of test.

[LinktheDeme]

A stoneskin setup is pretty lol though < <

[Apelila]

Re: Asura. Here's what someone recently told me:

Welcome to Asura! I'm sure by the end of 3 months you won't be here anymore 8)

Slyphet's post is what would work better for a 'new' end game shell than say, the wall of requirements™ that are an established shell like Merona's*. So if your courting people just to establish a shell, you'll want not to alienate people who haven't really done a lot of end game things yet.
*(tbh an assumption, since you appear to have a relic and those are not requirements any new to 75 could reach).

Having said that, it sounds like you just lost / need more mage's in an already established shell. Merits, equipment will give you an idea of how retarded the player is or isn't and a BG check if cross server will give you an idea of they're ass hole level.

It doesn't make much sense to jump on someone else for striking the wrong chord on the retarded piano.

Sweet Zombie jesus thats awesome.

[rath]

What my LS does for new mage applicants:

If they fill out the application correctly and they have no bad reviews by current members ( we post application for members to see for a couple days), we PM them a list of questions based on their job. Questions will be stuff to see their knowledge of gear choices and what stats effect their job.

Like we ask RDM "if you had these gear options and these merits, which gear would you use to cast X-spell on X-mob?" Questions vary from job to job, and we alter wording periodically so we don't get copy/paste answers. We do not care if they look the shit up, we hope they do (at least then they will read why the end-game community uses certain gear setups), we just look for good, thought out answers.

We do tend to also throw them into a situation and see how they do, we know what we can handle and can afford to have them mess up. If they aren't doing their job, they get told by people in not-so-kind fashion usually, they either shape up or gtfo. This isn't ever anything planned, but if they are a whm, damned rights they get to be in tank party sooner, rather then later.

The only thing we don't have questions for atm is sch though, so if anyone wants to suggest some, by all means lol.

[Eldelphia]

The only thing we don't have questions for atm is sch though, so if anyone wants to suggest some, by all means lol.

/lighthearted response from a 63 SCH with WHM, BRD, BLM and a 60 RDM ~ got emnity gear?

[Sylphet]

sometimes i take too long to switch

YES YOU DO OMG YOU HAVE TWO SEVENTY FIVES ON EACH CHARACTER!!!! I have full gear for 6 75s w/o having to mule!

I don't even want to imagine your inventory

SYLphet's post is what would work better for a 'new' end game shell than say, the wall of requirements™ that are an established shell like Merona's*. So if your courting people just to establish a shell, you'll want not to alienate people who haven't really done a lot of end game things yet.
*(tbh an assumption, since you appear to have a relic and those are not requirements any new to 75 could reach).

I am in charge of recruiting for my shell which is both the oldest HNMls on the server and arguably the hardest to get into on the server.

What I said before was not to be confused with those being the only requirements. However the meeting of those requirements is established in the actual application.

Here is the link to our linkshell's application page so you can get an idea of what we actually require/request from applicants.

What we prioritize for applications as a linkshell varies depending on our needs. Sometimes we have a specific need to fill (e.g. someone who can be a tank party WHM at events so that our current main WHMs can go on other jobs sometimes - this requires both high skill, good gear and high playtime). Sometimes the need is more general (competent people who will be able to make > 75% of events as a member). Contrary to what most people think though, we don't require previous end game experience or a lot of pre-existing gear. We have a philosophy that the details can be taught and it's one of the reasons that our trial period is longer than most. We generally have a month (or longer if app doesn't have close to 100% attendance) to see not only how they perform but how well they respond to constructive criticism and how they change their playstyle as a result. It's important that applicants and members are adaptable to changes as the game evolves and that they want to play to the best of their abilities and have fun doing it. The personality card however has the ability to trump all other aspects of the application. We don't need or want assholes or people who are going to belittle anyone else in ls.

Regarding pre-existing gear, Lhexh (our leader) put it best. (old screenshot so no bitching about what no morrigans?):
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...t/Chasuble.jpg

[Apelila]

Sorry, I didn't mean what you posted was more lax :D
My meaning was if you where looking for a good starting place for planning, what you posted was a better starting place than jumping right into making people run ridiculous tests and such.

Bolded edit.

[Izzy]

I think number 2 is an awesome idea. I remember a LOOOOOOONG time ago, I was put to the test by camping Amikiri/Ungur every day for like a week. It was a good Silena/Paralyna test.

[Aux]

A lot of these look like great responses.

From what I can gather, most of the serious endgame linkshells are putting up "serious applications" where it asks the applicants to list out their specific gear sets and whatnot.

This makes me realize that people often who try to keep up on things with their jobs, more often than not will have separate macros per specific spells and setups. This pretty much already nullifies the #4 suggestion that I was trying to input in the beginning, since in order to be the best they'd most likely have to go read up on their job guides online.

Interesting turn of responses, I thank everyone for their replies.
Now if melee applications were just this in-depth. Melees have it totally easy applying to a linkshell, believe me.

[isladar]

Melees have it totally easy applying to a linkshell, believe me.

Really? I've always felt (read: no parses were used in the making of this statement) that a recruiting LS will be slightly more forgiving to an applicant with an array of mage/support jobs than to a melee. While more people have multiple jobs to offer to an LS, a primary-melee really needs to present themselves well -- I have yet to run into the LS that says "Oh, but I do wish ever so much that we had more WARs, SAMs, and DRKs! This plethora of BRDs, CORs, and RDMs does so tire one!"

[Callisto]

Melees have it totally easy applying to a linkshell, believe me.

Really? I've always felt (read: no parses were used in the making of this statement) that a recruiting LS will be slightly more forgiving to an applicant with an array of mage/support jobs than to a melee. While more people have multiple jobs to offer to an LS, a primary-melee really needs to present themselves well -- I have yet to run into the LS that says "Oh, but I do wish ever so much that we had more WARs, SAMs, and DRKs! This plethora of BRDs, CORs, and RDMs does so tire one!"

Honestly that is entirely dependant on what the shell has at the time, which can vary by any shell. When I joined MH I was 1 of 2 RDMs and 1 of 2 BRDs, while we were overflowing with SAMs and other melees...now we have like 9 RDMs and 6 BRDs, and are still looking for more decent melees.

[Kaeko]

Best way if they have a RDM, BLM, or SCH is to watch them solo something. Doesn't have to be a BC or Limbus... could just watch them at puddings or something. When you're solo, no one can help you do things you may happen to not be good at. Your shortcomings become extremely apparent - I know I personally try to keep soloing harder things constantly just to critique myself on shortcomings in my own play, macro setups, or gear. Usually when I make a change to macros or sets, it's because I failed hard at something and critiqued myself on why it happened.

No reason you couldn't judge others' play this way. Say at puddings... you can instantly tell if a BLM or SCH is not using a good enfeebling switch if you see binds and gravities resisting. You have access to their HMP set for checking while resting. You can see if they are opening with really bad spells like AM2 etc. They don't have to be amazing soloers in my opinion, but doing this can help you check for glaring weaknesses. If you're mean, you can ask to duo with them then fake AFK ot watch them solo, purposely get 1 or 2 adds and watch them crowd control, etc. lol.

[Callisto]

If you're mean, you can ask to duo with them then fake AFK ot watch them solo, purposely get 1 or 2 adds and watch them crowd control, etc. lol.

See, that's how I'd do it sort of, like say we're going to duo these mobs, pull two, then Diaga and warp, and use a mule to watch how they handle it.

If the win, go them, if they fail then I bet it'd be funny as shit to watch.










No really, I'm totally doing this from now on.

[Kaeko]

If you're mean, you can ask to duo with them then fake AFK ot watch them solo, purposely get 1 or 2 adds and watch them crowd control, etc. lol.

See, that's how I'd do it sort of, like say we're going to duo these mobs, pull two, then Diaga and warp, and use a mule to watch how they handle it.

If the win, go them, if they fail then I bet it'd be funny as shit to watch.










No really, I'm totally doing this from now on.

I've actually done this to someone before. Wasn't at puddings though. (he zoned btw - which was probably the correct move considering how many adds I gave him lol)

[Callisto]

I've actually done this to someone before. Wasn't at puddings though. (he zoned btw - which was probably the correct move considering how many adds I gave him lol)

Man fuck the evaluation, I just want to do this to random LS members for lulz. Ooooh, could ask them to come help duo a ZNM then warp after you pop...

[Shuemue]

Best way if they have a RDM, BLM, or SCH is to watch them solo something. Doesn't have to be a BC or Limbus... could just watch them at puddings or something. When you're solo, no one can help you do things you may happen to not be good at. Your shortcomings become extremely apparent - I know I personally try to keep soloing harder things constantly just to critique myself on shortcomings in my own play, macro setups, or gear. Usually when I make a change to macros or sets, it's because I failed hard at something and critiqued myself on why it happened.

No reason you couldn't judge others' play this way. Say at puddings... you can instantly tell if a BLM or SCH is not using a good enfeebling switch if you see binds and gravities resisting. You have access to their HMP set for checking while resting. You can see if they are opening with really bad spells like AM2 etc. They don't have to be amazing soloers in my opinion, but doing this can help you check for glaring weaknesses. If you're mean, you can ask to duo with them then fake AFK ot watch them solo, purposely get 1 or 2 adds and watch them crowd control, etc. lol.

Totally disagree. I fucking suck at solo on BLM, but I defy anyone who has a clue on Asura to say I'm anything less than a good event BLM.

edit: I'll expand on that. I'm a firm believer that communication is far more important than solo play. Most, if not all, events are pretty simple if key players know what they're doing. Reacting to situations in an alliance setting is completely different to solo play. This follows on from my comments about being unwilling to undertake tests. If I'm unable to convince a shell to give me a chance simply by talking to them, it's not the shell for me.

[Zosi]

I'll agree that seeing someone's solo skill can be useful, but not every shell uses BLMs the way your shell may. Personally, I'm very rarely called upon to solo anything on BLM for LS events, and I'd much rather have fellow BLMs who can follow directions as to strategy, land MBs when necessary, stun dangerous TP moves either via an order and know how to balance elemental skill, INT and MAB effectively to suit the target mob. These are very different skills than the skills required to solo puddings, and I'd go so far as to say that most of the "hardcore" solo BLMs I know are actually very bad at mixed group play, particularly BLMs who have leveled nearly entirely off solo/duo or small manaburns. There are exceptions, of course, but it's a frequent enough pattern that "soloed BLM to 75" has become a warning light that tells me "doesn't have a clue how to play other aspects of the job".

Both aspects of the job are important, and as a recruiter for your LS, you need to decide what level of each you expect from your applicants. I think every LS is different in that respect, I don't doubt that Kaeko's LS is quite supportive of his playstyle, but you may require a different approach to the job.

One thing I will say is that I'm very firmly against any kind of synthetic test, for any job. Don't drag your BLMs out to Mire and demand that they stun Abrasive Tantra in front of you, or make your WHMs play "Simon Says" with paralyna/blindna/erase and a stopwatch. The combination of high pressure and knowledge that they're being watched can change how people act, and it rarely ends up being representative of how they'll perform 3 months down the road. Find natural situations where you'd need the skills in question, and invite them along to help. Particularly with all the new additions, there's no shortage of events that you can do at short notice with a small group.

Finally, a suggestion for you yourself. If you're an officer in a "serious" HNMLS and you don't have a clue about mage jobs, there's a simple fix. Level one. I know it's dangerous, since you might actually be asked to play it over your current jobs, but I don't think anyone can be an effective group leader without some knowledge of the mechanics of the jobs they command. At the very least, it'll help you recognize when people aren't doing their jobs properly, which is something that too often goes unnoticed in most LSs.

[Kaeko]

I'll agree that seeing someone's solo skill can be useful, but not every shell uses BLMs the way your shell may. Personally, I'm very rarely called upon to solo anything on BLM for LS events, and I'd much rather have fellow BLMs who can follow directions as to strategy, land MBs when necessary, stun dangerous TP moves either via an order and know how to balance elemental skill, INT and MAB effectively to suit the target mob. These are very different skills than the skills required to solo puddings, and I'd go so far as to say that most of the "hardcore" solo BLMs I know are actually very bad at mixed group play, particularly BLMs who have leveled nearly entirely off solo/duo or small manaburns. There are exceptions, of course, but it's a frequent enough pattern that "soloed BLM to 75" has become a warning light that tells me "doesn't have a clue how to play other aspects of the job".

Both aspects of the job are important, and as a recruiter for your LS, you need to decide what level of each you expect from your applicants. I think every LS is different in that respect, I don't doubt that Kaeko's LS is quite supportive of his playstyle, but you may require a different approach to the job.

One thing I will say is that I'm very firmly against any kind of synthetic test, for any job. Don't drag your BLMs out to Mire and demand that they stun Abrasive Tantra in front of you, or make your WHMs play "Simon Says" with paralyna/blindna/erase and a stopwatch. The combination of high pressure and knowledge that they're being watched can change how people act, and it rarely ends up being representative of how they'll perform 3 months down the road. Find natural situations where you'd need the skills in question, and invite them along to help. Particularly with all the new additions, there's no shortage of events that you can do at short notice with a small group.

Finally, a suggestion for you yourself. If you're an officer in a "serious" HNMLS and you don't have a clue about mage jobs, there's a simple fix. Level one. I know it's dangerous, since you might actually be asked to play it over your current jobs, but I don't think anyone can be an effective group leader without some knowledge of the mechanics of the jobs they command. At the very least, it'll help you recognize when people aren't doing their jobs properly, which is something that too often goes unnoticed in most LSs.

I think you caught me because you can ask people in my LS - they will tell you I can't magic burst I actually have to concentrate to do it. I leveled back with the first wave of NAs to 75 on SC MB but it was so long ago, and our LS doesn't stress SC MB mage/melee balance (more of a mage LS). I also can't stun things like Fulmination reliably b/c of computer issues. Good thing I go SCH on events now =P

Watching people to see if they know how to Paralyna quickly is good I agree. Some people I've seen know a lot about the game but are just plain slow with things like cure and -na. Don't know if it's just bad macro positioning or what but it's a big deal when you have someone that may know what to do but is just too slow doing it.

Definitely depends what you're looking for in a mage and how your LS does things. I would say make sure you actually see the person play for some period of time though. Forum apps and chatter can be deceptive. Watch the person play if you are really picky.

[Ehran]

I wanted to give my two cents on a couple of things here.

edit: I'll expand on that. I'm a firm believer that communication is far more important than solo play. Most, if not all, events are pretty simple if key players know what they're doing. Reacting to situations in an alliance setting is completely different to solo play. This follows on from my comments about being unwilling to undertake tests. If I'm unable to convince a shell to give me a chance simply by talking to them, it's not the shell for me.

Couldn't agree with this more. I would much rather take on someone who understands there is a difference in their role in an exp/merit type setting, and a LS event, as opposed to someone who has a Stoneskin build.

1) The application itself: A well-written application tells you that the person has a certain base level of intelligence and the ability to follow simple instructions. Barring applications from non-native English speakers this is the first thing to look for.

^ Some of the best advice in this thread.

The first event for all of our applicants is a Dynamis run. From there, we can put them in a party with a "watcher" and decide if we want to start them on a trial membership. After that, put their feet to the fire, and see what they can do.

One last thing to consider: Be honest about the status of your LS. If you're in an established shell, you might have a different level of expectations for prospective members. I run a small, but successful shell, and we've accepted a number of members who are completely new to different aspects to endgame. Because they are new, I'm not really interested in ANY of their gear or merits. I'd rather they have a positive attitude, be willing to learn, and be willing to accept the constructive criticism that my officers and I provide.

[Spungy]

If everyone we brought in new was perfect, how would we make fun of them? You can always kick later.