BALLISTA needs to be fixed!

[Dohorehn]

this thread is gonna lead to something good, I can feel it! (I really get hyped up when it comes to ballista)

themed matches so far: Protect the King/Queen, Pathos Ballista... what else can you think of to breathe life into this dead sport?

Capture the flag, too much to ask? (I just realized Brenner failed at this. Possible tweaks here?) Dare I say... free for all? A deathmatch in Zi'tah... sigh, I can dream.


P.S. SE give us the REAL coliseum, you permhead bastages. Some sort of functional dueling system for those who actually do like to duel, hmmm? Oh and spectated prize fights, please. ok.

[Meian]

Class changes because of PvP? No thanks. Been there with WoW. Watched class after class get nerfed and changed, over and over, due to PvP. You can't have pvp and pve in the same game, and except it to be balanced in both. One of them is going to suffer. This is a PvE game, with some PvP on the side, and I'd like to keep it that way.

And SMN actually isn't bad in pvp. Most run with Fenrir, who is easily sleepable. Diabolos is a different story(hint: he's heavily sleep resistant due to being the avatar of dreams). And going as SMN/SCH, I have my own anti-sleep in the form of Sublimation. Nightmare strips shadows, sleeps people, and prevents them from being wakened due to dots. Third Eye? Utsu? Blink? Useless. You have to focus on the avatar, or you lose. That means I can get away if I feel I can't win.

Bind

Before the multihit nerf in Ballista, SMN was incredible with 70 bp would nearly one shot every job that didn't have decent DEF (I wore def/-% setup with those Catiff Socks for Flee). In the case of Third Eye > lvl 70 BP, I KC'd with the avatar out but haven't tried it since Hasso/Seigan came out yet.


King and Queen seem interesting but there has to be major limitations on that person such as having incredibly low attack, nerfed healing/enhancing, reduced movement speed but boost in defense and hp. Sounds rather fun now that I think about it

[Kkel]

Pet jobs always get thrashed in FFXI PvP because the pets are either squishy targets (DRG, PUP) or easily outrun (SMN).

PLD/RDM is a lot more invincible than just RDM. With all the buffs PLD has received recently it must be even more-so. That job is indestructible.

I'd love to see DNC and SCH in PvP, getting tagged with a strong Helix must be brutal.

[Dohorehn]

Pet jobs always get thrashed in FFXI PvP because the pets are either squishy targets (DRG, PUP) or easily outrun (SMN).

PLD/RDM is a lot more invincible than just RDM. With all the buffs PLD has received recently it must be even more-so. That job is indestructible.

I'd love to see DNC and SCH in PvP, getting tagged with a strong Helix must be brutal.

I'd love to see more COR, a well geared QD Corsair can be a great annoyance.

Invisible, quickdraw quickdraw, sprint. repeat.

yeah and pet jobs get no love, going as PUP made me feel like crap

[fantasticdan]

Class changes because of PvP? No thanks. Been there with WoW. Watched class after class get nerfed and changed, over and over, due to PvP. You can't have pvp and pve in the same game, and except it to be balanced in both. One of them is going to suffer. This is a PvE game, with some PvP on the side, and I'd like to keep it that way.

So do you think the jobs in this game are balanced for pve than? rofl

[Kenji]

So do you think the jobs in this game are balanced for pve than? rofl

Way to miss the point.

In answer to your question, no, I don't think they are. But I sure as hell don't want them adjusted because of PvP. Only adjusted for PvE.

[jiang]

haha you guys think i'm saying this shit as a melee?

here are my lv 75 jobs: RDM BRD WHM BLM and PLD and DRK which i never play ever (because i have no gear for 'em anymore)

think again.

I say those things from the perspective that mage classes pretty much make ballista shit. you can have some fun sparring going on and it only takes one red mage/black mage to come in and sleepga everyone and then run away like a piece of fuck. youre an idiot if you think the current state of red mage or blue mage (sometimes even black mage, and i dont even know what scholar does in balista) vs everyone else is acceptable in ballista. DEBUFFS ARE TOO POWERFUL. THEY ARE MEANT FOR LV 80 MONSTERS, NOT FOR EVEN MATCH!

Ballista is soooooo fun when there isnt a red mage coming up and casting paralyze and sleepga on everyone, which btw lasts for like 30 seconds or so.. debuffs are retardedly overpowered and you can't say otherwise.

I may be wrong about BLU, however, all I know is that BLU has a 6 second (with haste) knockback, and can dish out a shitton of damage in a short amount of time.

yes, you can argue this is a team game, but it shouldn't take 3-4 people to actually take down a red mage. have you ever tried to actually KILL a competent red mage? first of all, you need to get rid of his buffs. stoneskin, phalanx, icespikes; after that you need to get past the fact that he can silence you, sleepga you, paralyze you. then after that you need to take into account he can just /sprint away.. in which case it becomes a scenario of keeping the fucker still, which most of the time just results in your efforts being in vain. red mage and blue mage are both broken in this aspect that it takes a fucking gang bang to dispatch of them.

plz go play a match of ballista and go see it for how broken it is. when mages show up its a fucking sleep/silence fest (not even lullaby because they nerfed that to fuck..).

oh the thing about the ninja stun katana is that it lasts for like 10 seconds :S i just found that ridiculous, you could be right that its probably one of the only things going for em though

however, i could be wrong, the past few months there have been maybe 8 people max. maybe the overpoweredness of certain classes fades away with more players, but underpoweredness does not... a BST, SMN, DRG.. will always be worthless in Ballista, 1v1 or 10v10.

[HAcoreRD]

I can tell the OP played WoW seeing as he wants everything "gimped".

Let's gimp ice spikes, I mean, It's not fair a mage class can have any passive method to defending themselves from melee jobs.

Let's gimp gravity, damn that slow movement speed!

Nerf the Blue Mage! They can stun and knock back! Why can't my job do that? WTFOP'D

Seriously man, send SE an email with your jobs, and tell them how to screw with other jobs but yours, while craftily building your email hinting them to buff your job.

After all, White Mages should have the ability to drop groups of mobs at their level or well above.

(Balance - No game has a perfect one)

[ronin sparthos]

In terms of balance, Ballista was always presented as a team vs team game but players in their infinite stupidity turned it into a man vs man epeen battle which opened the can of worms that eventually put the game to quick death. The lack of rewards and extreme repetitive nature of the event also were contributing factors to the games death. With actual rewards and new zones i see no reason that Ballista could not become fun again.

On RDM/BLU: RDM is pretty powerful in PVP, it has the ability to take down most other jobs via enfeebles and nuking but if the opponents handle RDM and BLU like a dynamis monster - 9 times out of 10 that RDM or BLU will be eating dirt. If you want to rush in and get raped, by all means go ahead but the jobs arent as broken as people tend to make them. Strategy - thats what kills these two supposed 'overpowered' jobs.

Pet jobs could definitely see some love in Ballista - lower the recall times of the pets while participating to 1min, get rid of the gate breeches on pets as well - this isnt the main game, changes like that would be moot anyway, especially if the players made it more of a Team v Team venture. You could do things like use pets as a distraction to lure the opposition and lead them to death without fear of giving the opponent a free gate breach.

The main gripe concerning Ballista atm is the lack of areas to actually fight - the 3 main areas at the moment are uninspiring and boring to say the least. Could some dungeons not be used for the event? or perhaps a random area would be selected once the sign up phase ended. It'd make things more interesting and in many dungeons in the game, you have plenty of areas to hide, ambush and use strategies.

Obviously the whole dungeons wouldnt be used, simply corner off a large area to participate and players leaving the area would be penalized.

Pso'xja - Lots of places to hide, low player traffic (for PVE)
Temple of Uggalepih - Stairways, Secret Doors and again low player traffic
Fei'yin - Open spaces, small rooms to ambush enemies, low PVE traffic.

Seriously, new zones would be a huge buff to the event itself expecially if they rolled Ballista and Brenner together, capture the flag is fun especially if they allowed you to do it in dungeons.

[Dohorehn]

exactly. there hasn't been balance in game since the first mario brothers. And even then Mario had the supreme advantage seeing as red is far more powerful a color than green. Luigi didn't stand a chance.

the post above wins. particularly the first paragraph, which thoroughly states the decline of ballista. As for new zones to fight in: Pso'xja = the complex from Golden Eye, Temple of Uggalepih = Aztec Temple. but in all seriousness, more zones could rock. Fei'yin, I would hate. I'd prefer an open field like Lufaise Meadows. Wasn't that planned for a diorama anyway?

[jiang]

I can tell the OP played WoW seeing as he wants everything "gimped".

Let's gimp ice spikes, I mean, It's not fair a mage class can have any passive method to defending themselves from melee jobs.

Let's gimp gravity, damn that slow movement speed!

Nerf the Blue Mage! They can stun and knock back! Why can't my job do that? WTFOP'D

Seriously man, send SE an email with your jobs, and tell them how to screw with other jobs but yours, while craftily building your email hinting them to buff your job.

After all, White Mages should have the ability to drop groups of mobs at their level or well above.

(Balance - No game has a perfect one)

except.. i'm a mage myself. infact.. all the ones that mattered pre-wings.

I am not asking for perfect balance, just a fix for things that are obviously not fair, as a RDM, are you scared of DRKs? WARs? MNKs? .. no. you look at a melee class, and go "lol". and sleep them go about your business. icespikes is retarded, it procs extremely often and paralyze is extremely powerful in ballista, along with every debuff. a soul eating guillotine should not be hitting a red mage for 150 damage. i'm sorry, thats just stupid.



EDIT: we are not proposing balances for classes that will trascend both PvE and PvP boundaries, all changes will be exclusive to PvP, just like every other ballista fix we've had in the past.

[Meian]

haha you guys think i'm saying this shit as a melee?

here are my lv 75 jobs: RDM BRD WHM BLM and PLD and DRK which i never play ever (because i have no gear for 'em anymore)

think again.

I say those things from the perspective that mage classes pretty much make ballista shit. you can have some fun sparring going on and it only takes one red mage/black mage to come in and sleepga everyone and then run away like a piece of fuck. youre an idiot if you think the current state of red mage or blue mage (sometimes even black mage, and i dont even know what scholar does in balista) vs everyone else is acceptable in ballista. DEBUFFS ARE TOO POWERFUL. THEY ARE MEANT FOR LV 80 MONSTERS, NOT FOR EVEN MATCH!

Ballista is soooooo fun when there isnt a red mage coming up and casting paralyze and sleepga on everyone, which btw lasts for like 30 seconds or so.. debuffs are retardedly overpowered and you can't say otherwise.

I may be wrong about BLU, however, all I know is that BLU has a 6 second (with haste) knockback, and can dish out a shitton of damage in a short amount of time.

yes, you can argue this is a team game, but it shouldn't take 3-4 people to actually take down a red mage. have you ever tried to actually KILL a competent red mage? first of all, you need to get rid of his buffs. stoneskin, phalanx, icespikes; after that you need to get past the fact that he can silence you, sleepga you, paralyze you. then after that you need to take into account he can just /sprint away.. in which case it becomes a scenario of keeping the fucker still, which most of the time just results in your efforts being in vain. red mage and blue mage are both broken in this aspect that it takes a fucking gang bang to dispatch of them.

plz go play a match of ballista and go see it for how broken it is. when mages show up its a fucking sleep/silence fest (not even lullaby because they nerfed that to fuck..).

oh the thing about the ninja stun katana is that it lasts for like 10 seconds :S i just found that ridiculous, you could be right that its probably one of the only things going for em though

however, i could be wrong, the past few months there have been maybe 8 people max. maybe the overpoweredness of certain classes fades away with more players, but underpoweredness does not... a BST, SMN, DRG.. will always be worthless in Ballista, 1v1 or 10v10.

After reading these parts I can't even take you seriously anymore.

BST with Tiger is a pain especially in 60 cap. First saw this during Ballista Royale on a video and used a few times outside of it. Of course, not many BST out there that do Ballista.

Exaggerations with Stun is amazing... further making me think you exaggerated most of your claims.

lvl 80 mobs? We're lvl 75 in uncapped, not that far away. Making debuffs as weak as you seem to want will hinder mages horridly. Sure, make it weaker with each cast but the first at full normal strength as it currently is in PVP.

Nerfing debuffs to counter RDM isn't the solution since you will hinder other jobs such as WHM who are potential threat as well if played correctly (even Winjas are bastards)

[ronin sparthos]

Its called sending 2 DD and a support job to kill said RDM before they can turn the tables on you.

Strategy, wonderful thing isnt it?

[jiang]

I just realized how retarded some of the arguments that have been brought up. "there hasn't been balance since the mario brothers games" wtf? seriously? are you a fucking idiot? there's a difference between ever so slightly adding a drop of sand to the scale with characters having differences like mario vs luigi in mario galaxy, and FUCKING BROKEN like MAGNETO IN MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2. ok? of course we will never attain "true balance", ballista would be boring as fuck then. what we are proposing is to level the playing field more. this game WAS NOT designed for pvp in mind, it was designed for pve. melee classes were designed to gain tp and do weaponskills. mage classes were designed to weaken enemies and do burst damage. these distinctions do not work for pvp because no one is going to stand still and let someone do a skill chain on you. this game was not built for PVP, and never will be. but who's to say we can't make it fun for EVERYONE? "go on another job if your current one sucks at pvp" see, that's just retarded. you should be able to provide something for the team no matter what job youre on.

[Deejay]

You guys are fucking retarded if you think RDM doesn't need to be nerfed.

Either play ballista and see for yourself or stop talking.

One class shouldn't require 2-3 EXTREMELY CAPABLE melee to take down. Period. End of Story.

The only reason why PLD/RDM isn't overpowered is because they still take 3 years, 7 months, and 14 days days to kill anything.

Edit:

Its called sending 2 DD and a support job to kill said RDM before they can turn the tables on you.

Strategy, wonderful thing isnt it?

Are you even reading what you're saying?

ITS BALANCED MAN, ALL YOU NEED IS 17 DD's, POISON-POTS, AND A PHALANX OF STUNNERS!

[jiang]

After reading these parts I can't even take you seriously anymore.

BST with Tiger is a pain especially in 60 cap. First saw this during Ballista Royale on a video and used a few times outside of it. Of course, not many BST out there that do Ballista.

Exaggerations with Stun is amazing... further making me think you exaggerated most of your claims.

lvl 80 mobs? We're lvl 75 in uncapped, not that far away. Making debuffs as weak as you seem to want will hinder mages horridly. Sure, make it weaker with each cast but the first at full normal strength as it currently is in PVP.

Nerfing debuffs to counter RDM isn't the solution since you will hinder other jobs such as WHM who are potential threat as well if played correctly (even Winjas are bastards)

we are talking about uncapped ballista. lv 60 ballista is actually quite balanced because that is actually where the game first stopped at.

"lvl 80 mobs? We're lvl 75 in uncapped, not that far away" wow. do you even play FFXI? have you ever seen the difference between fighting a VT and IT? you realize their lvl difference is like 2 or 3 right? (Nidhogg is lv 90 btw..) LVLs in this game are extremely important. and making sleep last 8 seconds instead of 30 seconds, making paralyze proc every 3/10 swings instead of 8/10 swings, (gravity isnt actually all that bad), making phalanx not so diesel that it nerfs your asuran fist to 200-300 dmg (don't forget stoneskin, protect, and the fact that they can heal themselves!).. i dont think it would hinder them at all.. you forget that mages have many more tools outside of enfeebling. that is just one aspect of the game completely geared towards making lv 80+ monsters weaker..


EDIT: I forgot to mention that defensive techniques in this game were ALSO geared to protect you from lv 80+ monsters.. which is why paladins and red mages hardly ever die in ballista,

[Max™]

Rdm begins casting Sleep II on Myteammate.
Maxaru uses Provoke on Rdm.
Rdm's casting is interrupted.

There are counters to everything.

(though, the funniest is when you voke JUST after the point where you can interrupt, so the spell goes off, but it looks really odd, because it lands on YOU)

As for "The defense was meant for lvl 80+ mobs"... no, that is what Utsu is for, lvl 80+ mobs eat defense up due to level correction and silly base damage.

I, on the other hand, was meant to kill level 80+ mobs, hence the multi-hit WS dmg nerf, and the general damage reduction all around.

[Mizango]

I personally like RDM in ballista, they make it "interesting". I would also love to see them do the server battles again, but as far as Ballista as a whole, it could use for fine tuning. I like the gear specific idea but fuck the gimping jobs bullshit I've seen that first hand with WoW also.

[Belipo Jones]

first they need to bring ballista royale back

rdm doesnt need nerf>> finale dispel etc

only job that needs changed is bst, they need to be able to charm people

if they put incentive such as einherjar points or w/e people would go just to leach points and not play. fuck that

they also need to fix the auto balance system as it doesnt always balance teams right

another thing they should seriuosly look into locking your job you sign up on because this sign up on mnk switch to rdm bullshit gets old fast or vice versa cause then it fucks the auto balance up even more than it is

and if any job right now is overpowered is sch

aoe grav is gay

[Burnsy]

ITS BALANCED MAN, ALL YOU NEED IS 17 DD's, POISON-POTS, AND A PHALANX OF STUNNERS!

You're an idiot, he never said it was balanced. Poison Pots are not even an option to not have in ballista, or most end game events. You're probably one of those people that doesn't eat food for exp parties either....

Ballista is a team effort, going in and "dueling" 1v1 is just that, a duel between 2 people to test each other. In a real ballista match 2-3 man squads consisting of 2 dds and support (be it melee DDs, or magic users), will house any single job, period.

Last time I checked FFXI was a socially oriented game, heavily dependant on grouping. If you want solo pvp, or any kind of real fight experience where things are even remotely balanced, go play a first person shooter.