So... Pandemonium.

[ronin sparthos]

Well if ZNMs go over bad, we can kiss that poppable king system goodbye that SE said they were considering if people demanded more ZNM-esque systems.

[killerx]

My LS has 2x Tinnin's fangs on 2 people, we wanna go back to do Cerb/Khim and get those items to do pandy, but we got a little burnt out with doing these things nonstop for weeks in a row, so right now we're relaxing.
Definitely not going to sit on our asses with a pande warden pop when we get it, but with the rate ZNM have been depleting the LS buffer as a whole, when we get Pande Keys we are so having LS merit parties before popping it at all.

If your guna do it might as well go in with capped buffers, shit will and allways hits the fan.

[Pergo]

I get really sick of people saying their's better gear elsewhere when their's not. Yes, theirare some better alternatives for some jobs (like Salvage) but most their aren't (Ebody comes to mind).

Ridill and Dring aren't available elsewhere. Abody, Ebody, Mbody, and Wbodys' only alternate way of obtainment is through Einherjar, which most shells do. However, that's only a shot at them every 2+ weeks (because we all know abjurations almost always never drop from any tier except Odin). People prefer to have a higher chance at these drops, which is completely understandable.

with the exception of dring and ebody, those other items have clearly better alternatives that are just as challenging to get. and i'm pretty sure even ebody has competition against the the hachi body

[Noob]

No, people are stuck in old content because they don't get there is better gear available or other places to get it.

I get really sick of people saying their's better gear elsewhere when their's not. Yes, their are some better alternatives for some jobs but others' their aren't. Yes, Salvage equipment is great. However, you cannot wear Ares' body full time for jobs like WAR and DRK. Ebody trumps it tremendously in many situations. Mbody is still a great situational piece for PLD, even those PLD with AFv2 or Ares's can put it to use in certain situations.

Ridill and Dring aren't available elsewhere. Ebody and Mbodys' only alternate way of obtainment is through Einherjar, which most shells do. However, that's only a shot at them every 2+ weeks (because we all know abjurations almost always never drop from any tier except Odin). People prefer to have a higher chance at these drops, which is why HNMLS still camp kings, which is completely understandable.

[Tajin]

My LS has 2x Tinnin's fangs on 2 people, we wanna go back to do Cerb/Khim and get those items to do pandy, but we got a little burnt out with doing these things nonstop for weeks in a row, so right now we're relaxing.
Definitely not going to sit on our asses with a pande warden pop when we get it, but with the rate ZNM have been depleting the LS buffer as a whole, when we get Pande Keys we are so having LS merit parties before popping it at all.

You guys must be doing some heavy lowman stuff, because, while I would not call ZNMs a walk in the park, its certainly hard to wipe unless you fuck up >.>

[Lordwafik]

You guys must be doing some heavy lowman stuff, because, while I would not call ZNMs a walk in the park, its certainly hard to wipe unless you fuck up >.>

A lot of the exp loss was done in the first week when we still didn't know how to kill things, like Experimental lamia, we just assumed you have 3 blms -ga3 the babies and all is well. Wrong.
Bunch of other deaths that are somewhat unavoidable, like that troll NM's MEGAOVERTHROW that just 1 shots people (or whatever move it is). etc etc. Add Ixion on top of this and you have low buffers
I never said we wiped to NMs though like you are saying. Just lots of deaths due to surprise buttsex.

[Kaylia]

A lot of the exp loss was done in the first week when we still didn't know how to kill things, like Experimental lamia, we just assumed you have 3 blms -ga3 the babies and all is well. Wrong.
Bunch of other deaths that are somewhat unavoidable, like that troll NM's MEGAOVERTHROW that just 1 shots people (or whatever move it is). etc etc. Add Ixion on top of this and you have low buffers
I never said we wiped to NMs though like you are saying. Just lots of deaths due to surprise buttsex.

Even when you fight them for the 2nd times, death are pretty common on some T3. None of them are hard, but most can one shot you whenever they want. Not sure how much xp I lost doing ZNM without whm, but it's probably close to 40k in 2 weeks.

Oh well..more fun that way. It's boring when no one get hurt.

[Zekyr]

Well if ZNMs go over bad, we can kiss that poppable king system goodbye that SE said they were considering if people demanded more ZNM-esque systems.

Maybe if players didn't have to follow 1% mobs around for multiple hours just to pop 2-3 NMs (not even consecutive farming, since the mobs might change) for honestly low rewards until the Tier 3 range at a minimum, and Tier 4 for certain people, they'd be more interested in it.

I basically turn my ISP into gold coins which I turn into jettons which I turn into cameras/film which I spend time running around the world (and sometimes having to compete at certain camps) for mobs with a few other people, sleep them at 1%, spam pictures til I have 2-3 days worth, come back and trade pictures over 2-3 hours, and finally get zeny for those pictures.

It feels extremely shoehorned in and a terrible waste of time (but what isn't, I guess) and could have been done a lot better up to that point. For example, why not just have an NPC that will convert your ISP into zeny to buy pop items, but limited to a certain amount of conversion per day/hour/RL day/JP midnight or something. Yes, it's lazy, but it's the same thing without needing to try and force people to have any interest in stupid pankration again. At the very least, I'd rather just kill mobs for X zeny a kill or something, the pictures are seriously a downer to such a possibly great system.

The system for buying the pop items inflating and going down over time was a good idea, the ability to pick multiple choices was nice, but once again, in a classic example of Apollyon versus Temenos, the balance was fucked. There's an obvious "easy" path through each of the tier 1/2 that can be done easily (and has a correspondingly higher cost, true) but in addition the easier NMs also seem to have the best drops of their tier. Rather than giving the tougher, harder to kill/access NMs the better drops, and the ones easy to kill crap, all of the reason to kill are stacked on certain NMs, making another bottleneck.

And basically to echo what other people are saying, no, the rewards are not king replacement gear. I dont see the Oracle's set carrying hefty MP boosts along with refresh on the body piece, and even if it did it's missing other jobs on the zenith abj set. Enkidu and Aurum pieces are only decent for jobs that already don't get things like homam and the like (and that only applies to a couple pieces, again, most of them suck ass) and can't be called a replacement for shura or adaman.

Hachiryu so far seems to be the biggest draw to these rewards, and as they only carry 5 jobs on them, will only have interest from those jobs. most of the interest is centered on the body and legs anyways it seems. Since they are rare, people who don't have any interest in the ZNMs will eventually be able to just buy them anyways (lol if anyone ever kills pandy) so there's another strike. Finally, we have the new weapons. Some of them are honestly great. I love my Naglering. However, most of them suck, and again, a lot of the non-suck ones are non-EX anyways as well.

All in all, the largest benefits to these new NMs so far are easy cerberus hides, some decent weapons, a couple pieces of gear from the new sets that are only good for jobs who dont get anything better, a new gear set that only applies to a few jobs and is still only slightly better than other alternatives. Saying that this system was meant to or will in any way replace the kings is retarded beyond belief. Einherjar did more to replace kings than ZNMs has even come close to yet.

Taking this all into consideration, there's certainly room to improve and change it, and hopefully it will be mixed up a bit to be bettered a bit. Until then, people will still be at the same camps every day, because in 3 hours they can have a shot at gear that in most situations is STILL the best in the game, where 3 hours in ZNM picture farming + standing at an NPC will barely get you enough to pop a tier 1 and 2 mob.

There's a reason it seems most (not all) major linkshells aren't putting much effort into ZNMs, and (on my server at least) most of the ZNM groups are made up of a hodgepodge of people from mixed endgame LSes and other places who grouped together to do it since the rest of the shell doesn't give a shit, and with obvious reason. SE will need to do some major work into the ZNM system if they expect anywhere near the interest level of kings in it.

[Kaslo]

And basically to echo what other people are saying, no, the rewards are not king replacement gear. I dont see the Oracle's set carrying hefty MP boosts along with refresh on the body piece, and even if it did it's missing other jobs on the zenith abj set. Enkidu and Aurum pieces are only decent for jobs that already don't get things like homam and the like (and that only applies to a couple pieces, again, most of them suck ass) and can't be called a replacement for shura or adaman.

Hachiryu so far seems to be the biggest draw to these rewards, and as they only carry 5 jobs on them, will only have interest from those jobs. most of the interest is centered on the body and legs anyways it seems. Since they are rare, people who don't have any interest in the ZNMs will eventually be able to just buy them anyways (lol if anyone ever kills pandy) so there's another strike. Finally, we have the new weapons. Some of them are honestly great. I love my Naglering. However, most of them suck, and again, a lot of the non-suck ones are non-EX anyways as well.

You realize people aren't saying all the better gear comes from ZNMs, but from new things in general. Salvage Gear, Nyzul Isle, Einherjar, combined with some ZNM gear. (and hell certain WOTG Gear)

[Sonomaa]

[QUOTE=Maxx;2092487]inorite

I don't know exactly, not even sure if this version of the forums will put the

[Noob]

It's just stupid when people complain that others are "still stuck on old content" when the old content still hasn't been outdated. People will camp kings until the gear dropped by them becomes obsolete, which will never be. Just because you either don't have people in your LS capable of claiming kings, don't have any jobs which need anything from kings, or don't have any desire or motivation to camp kings doesn't make them old outdated content.

As I've said in my previous post, I understand it's being implied that their are better alternatives. However, to say king equipment is outdated is a very stupid statement. You can't be the best you can be nor claim you are attempting to maximize without making an effort to obtain equipment dropped by kings if your job happens to make primary use of N.Head, A.Body, E.Body, M.Body, or D.Ring. It's just that simple. Anyone who strives to be the best they can possibly be will agree with this. Yes, Einherjar is there as an opportunity to obtain Abjurations by other means other than camping kings. However, D.Ring does not drop from Einherjar. Their are many situations where D.Ring will save your ass. Therefore, not camping KB for the chance to own one is only hurting yourself by you choosing not to make an effort to maximize.

[Wizerd]

Except the major LS's still camp Aspid, because they are too lazy/cheap to get Morrigan or Marduk bodies, Yinyang Robes, or Sorceror's Coats, etc. And they want to sell the egg, which isn't even worth the LS's time for 1mil, but they do it anyway.

Sure it's the last of the 3 kings to get attention, but it still gets attention which is sad. Stuck on old content is a very valid argument in certain cases, the above being one.

[byte]

Also, you're all forgetting that Kings are far easier than the newer alternatives. Why work harder for something that isn't as good?

[Wizerd]

Also, you're all forgetting that Kings are far easier than the newer alternatives. Why work harder for something that isn't as good?

At the very least, in my example, the two suggested pieces are 10x better. Although I doubt that was directed at my example anyway.

[Chreman]

I don't know why anyone's trying to talk sense into people who are quick to point out each and every flaw they find in a system. No shit this new system is time consuming and repetetive. . . you're playing an MMO, check your free time at the door.

This new exodus of SE actually listening to the playerbase is giving certain people larger-than-life mouths and provoking rants ripe with self-importance and my-way-or-the-highway. Now that SE has shown signs of paying attention, nothing they do will ever be good enough. . . not to say it would have been in the first place :/

Nomad Moogles in Selbina/Mhuara? "Worthless, should have been done years ago. I in fact never step foot in those towns anymore and they should be removed from the game anyway."

King Abj Drops from Odin? "Pointless, it takes longer and the content is new enough that we don't have foolproof methods to ensure NEVER LOSING EVER so I'm not going to even try."

New gear? "I didn't log in with these new sets immediately deposited in my inventory, shit's not worth it."

etc. etc. etc. People seem to forget how the current king system is a great way of ensuring your playerbase will continue playing for a fucklong time. It's not SE's fault most everyone here won't rest until they have the best item for each slot for every circumstance in a game where gear hardly ever means the difference between winning and losing, only winning quickly or losing slowly.

All this whining about the 'best' gear being difficult to obtain is assanine. SE has absolutely no reason to make this gear easier to get. Worse case scenario would be all these players who still pay to play banding together and pool their collective vagina leakage into an online petition. If you're so angry at SE making good decisions regarding the longevity of their own game. . . . STOP. PLAYING. Don't post about how if the next update doesn't meet your demands you'll quit. Ultimatives are fucking useless when your only audience is a community that has as much influence as the asshats at alla.

I'm still confused why this forum's title is 'Advanced Player Discussion' instead of 'Advanced Faggotry and Livejournal Quality Bitching'

[Tempyst]

I don't know why anyone's trying to talk sense into people who are quick to point out each and every flaw they find in a system. No shit this new system is time consuming and repetetive. . . you're playing an MMO, check your free time at the door.

This new exodus of SE actually listening to the playerbase is giving certain people larger-than-life mouths and provoking rants ripe with self-importance and my-way-or-the-highway. Now that SE has shown signs of paying attention, nothing they do will ever be good enough. . . not to say it would have been in the first place :/

Nomad Moogles in Selbina/Mhuara? "Worthless, should have been done years ago. I in fact never step foot in those towns anymore and they should be removed from the game anyway."

King Abj Drops from Odin? "Pointless, it takes longer and the content is new enough that we don't have foolproof methods to ensure NEVER LOSING EVER so I'm not going to even try."

New gear? "I didn't log in with these new sets immediately deposited in my inventory, shit's not worth it."

etc. etc. etc. People seem to forget how the current king system is a great way of ensuring your playerbase will continue playing for a fucklong time. It's not SE's fault most everyone here won't rest until they have the best item for each slot for every circumstance in a game where gear hardly ever means the difference between winning and losing, only winning quickly or losing slowly.

All this whining about the 'best' gear being difficult to obtain is assanine. SE has absolutely no reason to make this gear easier to get. Worse case scenario would be all these players who still pay to play banding together and pool their collective vagina leakage into an online petition. If you're so angry at SE making good decisions regarding the longevity of their own game. . . . STOP. PLAYING. Don't post about how if the next update doesn't meet your demands you'll quit. Ultimatives are fucking useless when your only audience is a community that has as much influence as the asshats at alla.

I'm still confused why this forum's title is 'Advanced Player Discussion' instead of 'Advanced Faggotry and Livejournal Quality Bitching'

I want to cram this entire thing in my sig but it's too big

[isladar]

Considering they used one of my all-time favourite words, asinine (albeit spelled incorrectly), I'm right there with you.