Your opinion on dual boxed characters.

[Lordwafik]

I agree with points going to people over characters. It's kinda funny, this argument used to come up a long long time ago but in regards to peoples jobs, since back then it was very rare to have someone with more than one job, and the question was "Should <person> get <item> for <job>? He only comes on <other job>!!!". I'm sure us oldies remember this :D

But yeah, if someone's forced to go BLM to everything due to nobody else having better jobs for the situation, it's not fair to only give them BLM stuff , they might want stuff for their other characters. I can understand though if someone wants say, 2 love torques, one on each character, that's kinda getting cunty.

[Alibeemac]

We have multiple people in our LS with 2 chars on the same account. Both characters have Sea access, Salvage gear etc and are well geared and meritted. What tends to happen is they come on the mage mage job and log the melee job out in the zone we are doing the event in unless they are specifically asked to come on the melee job. If their stuff drops, they log off the mage and onto the melee to lot. I have 0 problem with this because they are at the event attending on a useful job and helping the LS out on w/e job we ask and therefore they earned their right to lot. We don't generally however give gear to 2nd chars who are not 75 or are unusable by the LS etc unless no one else wants.
With regards to lotting gear on a char on behalf of someone who isn't able to attend, I don't agree really with it unless no one else wants eg I wouldn't allow lotting on things like E Body, Sea Torques, Novio, Haidate etc unless it was the actual person playing at the time.
As for dual boxing a 2nd account so that they can do other things in game I don't generally like it as people have split attention at events and can cause mistakes etc. I am currently looking after a friends char since they quit and the only time I dual box is to sit it at Tiamat or w/e for ToD while the LS does another event or if we are so short on BLMs that I need to bring them to help the event. I don't get double DKP credit for doing this however and neither does anyone else.
The only exceptions to this rule is if someone needed say an Einherjar flag to be able to enter Odin and they were at work or w/e. I have np with the char getting in the alliance for the flag if there is space as it benefits the LS in the long run however DKP is awarded to the person playing the character not the character itself.

[Lampoon]

If you start making compromises for one person you have to start making it for everyone. You have to ask yourself; what is rewarded a point? Person's effort or the fact that his character logged in? Doesn't matter if someone is two boxing him or tri-boxing. You are rewarding the owner of the boxed account for not putting in the effort at any given event. I never cared for "But he put so much effort in, let's lot that item for him" It's plain and simple; he's not there, tough titty. Someone's bad luck is someone else's good luck.

Real life comes first.

Yeah, you may need that person's job at an event if someone can two-box him and his item may drop and he's allowed to lot it, but what about people who choose not to share account info? If they miss an event they are not given a chance to lot an item because they're not there.

Reward person's time, not person's account.

As for those who two-box their own multiple accounts. Well, they have to pick one that's their main. You can't have people who are lotting gear on 2nd account because they either don't have that job on main or choose not to level it or play it.

[Vigilia]

LOL @ your sig Lutia.

yeah a buddy of mine used to afk/go to work/sleep/bang gf in attohwa on his main "getting ToD" or w/e, racked up huge points and scored some gaiters with little to no work involved

That's a bit messed up, me and my partner have been helping our LS camp Tiamat for about a month and a half now with a mule in Attohwa and gotten nothing for it that I know of. Quite a few peeps in my LS have a low-level ToD mule logged permanently at known HNM spots and often on spare accounts that several people can access, what's the point of running your main there when you can get a ToD with a lvl 1 character and minimum effort?

As per the original questions...

1 Do you give dual boxed people points?
No, points go to person not character. Both my current and previous LS worked like this, if someone has multiple characters they only accumulate points on their main but they can sign up their 2nd character for drops and get drops when nobody else present needs/wants.

2 Do you treat them as though they're there?
Who? The person behind the dual boxed character or the person who owns the dual boxed character? I'm assuming the latter so no.

3 What about players who share accounts, not playing their own account but their friend's so friend can get an item if it drops?
No-no unless it's known to leaders and it would have to be a very specific situation.

4 What if someone is dual boxed and they're up for a drop? Do they get it?
Not something my current LS has had to deal with to my knowledge apart from freelot AF2 in Dynamis where it's better to give to spare characters than to mannequin it. Basically if you can't log yourself on then tough shit. It's an attitude question as well, it doesn't feel right to ask for items when you're not really there. Also, account details aren't really widely shared inside the shell and these recent hackings sure as hell aren't encouraging it. Aside from a handful of close RL friends/couples there's not that much dualboxing going on. I would imagine priority on drops always goes to persons actually present, unless it was a really really severe RL issue and we're talking about a drop someone has been waiting for years I doubt a dualboxed character would get it.

5 If John takes a few months break but Jim plays his character, who gets the points?
Jim

6 What are the consequences if someone has been "RPing" as the person who owns the account, but isn't the original player and is discovered?
If I had a say in it I'd kick them both or put on lotting restriction for at least a month or reset their points to 0. Whatever the punishment were it would have to be pretty severe as you've been deceiving your own LS, never happened in any shell I've been in though so can't say for sure.

[Titanss]

In my LS if someone owns 2 characters (whether on same account or not) if both have 75 job(s) and are being used equally at LS events, then they earn points/attendance regardless of which character they are playing. If someone is playing 2 characters at an event they don't get double for playing more than one character. You can lot something for a mule/alternate character (that does not get equal playtime) if it's free lot.

Also, because we have a bid system you basically have to be there to bid and lot. So we don't really have situations where someone is being logged in by someone else to lot (since they would need to bid and we don't allow someone to bid for someone else). Of course odd situations will always occur so those just get handled on a case by case basis.

best way to handle it.. this is what my old ls did

[Saithorx]

I can understand though if someone wants say, 2 love torques, one on each character, that's kinda getting cunty.

lol I could have done that with Chapeau. I got Chapeau over a year ago and recently got +1. I was still points leader to get Chapeau to store it ^.^

I would be quite the asshole if I did that though.

[Apelila]

You can't have people who are lotting gear on 2nd account because they either don't have that job on main or choose not to level it or play it.

Bolded the part I think falls into the drama valley.
Why the hell not allow this in most instances? People with 2'nd characters usually have mages and mage gear isn't usually as hard up as say haidate; but if its something they bring to events when its needed then whats the difference?

I can understand not allowing people to get drops that other LS members might want for their main, or pain in the ass to get items(Haidate, W.Legs, SURCOAT) but surely that rule doesn't apply all the time? I'm not sure i'm saying what I want to, since I agree to a point that secondary characters should be secondary, but not completely cock blocked from getting anything because they're secondary/not needed by the LS as the 'main'.

[Gulkeeva]

http://www.gley.net/teamlutia.jpg ?

haha didn't think anyone else would be doing something like that
He does something with text commands that make the other characters do stuff, its pretty cool to watch.

Like he'd say something in party chat , and he'd do a skillchain.. then say another word mage does MB, says other command and bard sings etc... its almsot scary how well he does it

[layoneil]

~Do you give dual boxed people points?
~Do you treat them as though they're there?
~What about players who share accounts, not playing their own account but their friend's so friend can get an item if it drops?
~What if someone is dual boxed and they're up for a drop? Do they get it?
~If John takes a few months break but Jim plays his character, who gets the points?
~What are the consequences if someone has been "RPing" as the person who owns the account, but isn't the original player and is discovered?

1 & 2 - no points for the person not there. no extra points for the person playing both accounts. there should be exceptions for the latter if you really can't win without the person playing 2 characters, you should consider giving them extra, but that should be extremely rare in the current state of the game.

3 & 4 - if the person that's not there deserves it (if he's accumulated the points/attendance before and only happens to miss this one particular event), yes.

5 - Jim

6 - kick, blatantly lying should almost always be kick.

---

If you start making compromises for one person you have to start making it for everyone.

hey guess what, i totally disagree with you, because as usual, you totally contradict yourself.

so what? there's nothing wrong with making compromises for everyone as long as the compromises are consistent. that's why you have leadership with brains so they are capable of discerning when a compromise is needed and when it's not.

You are rewarding the owner of the boxed account for not putting in the effort at any given event. I never cared for "But he put so much effort in, let's lot that item for him" It's plain and simple; he's not there, tough titty. Someone's bad luck is someone else's good luck.

Reward person's time, not person's account.

contradiction number 1, why is rewarding effort and time limited to what someone does at that particular event? for a game that's been around for 5 years, for some people who have been in Linkshells and have been contributing effort for more than 3 years. the only effort that counts is the last 2 or 3 hours? that's not rewarding effort or time, that's not even rewarding having a character logged in, that's rewarding luck. rewarding luck is stupid, the game does plenty of that on it's own without the players adding to it.

I never cared for "But he put so much effort in, let's lot that item for him" It's plain and simple; he's not there, tough titty. Someone's bad luck is someone else's good luck.

Real life comes first.

contradiction number 2, real life does not come first here. sacrificing real life to be on all the time is what you're asking for.

Yeah, you may need that person's job at an event if someone can two-box him and his item may drop and he's allowed to lot it, but what about people who choose not to share account info? If they miss an event they are not given a chance to lot an item because they're not there.

it's a personal choice, if they choose to deny themselves of the option that's what they choose to do. everyone is free to have the same choice, that's most important. it's when you deny the people the ability to choose then you have more issues.

As for those who two-box their own multiple accounts. Well, they have to pick one that's their main. You can't have people who are lotting gear on 2nd account because they either don't have that job on main or choose not to level it or play it.

contradiction number 3, if it's different jobs why do they have to choose a main. do people with multiple jobs on the same character always have to choose a main still? is it still 2004?

if someone has a MNK on their "main" character, and a WHM on their "second" character. the WHM will not be eligible for AF2 Body even if they go to 50% of events on WHM because the MNK has Black Belt? how does that make sense, how is that different from being 2 jobs on the same character?

granted you should almost never give the same item to a "main" and a "2nd". if someone has a merit BRD on main and real playable BRD on 2nd, you're not going to give them two Manteels or 2 AF2 pants, or w/e.

[Lutia]

Like he'd say something in party chat , and he'd do a skillchain.. then say another word mage does MB, says other command and bard sings etc... its almsot scary how well he does it

I prefer to not use third party software though

[Amele]

I prefer to not use third party software though

to be fair to ethan, I'm pretty sure it's self-coded and as such would technically be second-party.

</pedantic>

[RKenshin]

I just alt-tab like a mad-man when I'm playing that many people. D: Don't necessarily need any kind of "tools" to be able to do it and to a reasonable level (depending on jobs). Or at least, outside of just having windowed FF.

And yeah, avoiding repeating a lot of what was already said 100x times... But dual boxing another person's account should never count for that person being present. I think I agree with just about everything Layo said for the most part.

[Khamsin]

In my LS, points are held by the person behind the character, rather than the character itself. If someone has multiple characters, they all spend from the same pool. For example, we have several people who play two characters, and can come to events as either (or even log one out to log the other in for lotting after the fight), and have equal right to lot as any other member (factoring in job and point priority) regardless of which character they are on.

In the event that someone logs in for someone else, we don't allow proxy lotting. I can't log in for my friend and spend his points to get him an item... although it has been done in the past in certain situations (such as lotting an M.Body for someone and then logging him out naked except for the m.body in the middle of cape teriggan with the OP set as the HP).

Deviations from the rules mostly come down to who will throw a fit if we bend them. If no one gives a shit, anything could happen.

[fishstix]

The most I've done was 2 computers and a laptop, each with 2 instances of windower running, so I could enter Arrapago Remnants completely on my own. One of the computers is kinda sucky, so I completely turned it off when I did the d/c thing. I wasn't quite as prepared as I'd like to be though, on my second try doing this, I lost a weapon cell due to low inventory and I actually wiped... twice controlling a blm rdm thf. Although I was sucky in controlling 3 chars, I was rewarded though with a drop

[Kyarutaru]

Me and some friends so Assaults together and we're technically just 3 people but 5 players total. If we do some sort of fight where a money drop would be involved, it would only be split 3 ways and not 5 since there are only 3 physical people actually playing and we are paying monthly for the additional accounts. The other accounts are simply inherited friends' accounts who have since quit the game, so really they are just like "puppets" if you will since the previous players no longer play or pay. If the accounts were still used and paid for by their players, then most likely drops/gil would be distributed to them accordingly for letting us borrow their account.

idk it all makes sense in my head. Had a discussion about all of this just the other day actually and it was agreed upon.

[Taisaijin]

80% of dual boxers are inefficient

i've met some that i can hardly believe they are played by one single person tho o.O

[Scorp]

80% of dual boxers are inefficient

i've met some that i can hardly believe they are played by one single person tho o.O

It depends on the jobs you are playing. I'm fine if I have bard on xbox and a melee job on pc. I know how fast my tp gain is and I know how long songs have till they wear off.

If i'm dualling pld and blm though (events) I generally suck. I have previously run as an assist in dynamis xarc whilst killing JoL though. Think that says more about JoL on blm than it does any skill I have...

Lotting rights don't bother me really, my alt can be ah equipped with the odd af upgrade from limbus for pld and bard. Yea its not ideal but its an alt, I don't have time to invest fully in 2 characters and I don't want to get into wishing X rare drop was on the other.

[Confuse]

~Do you give dual boxed people points?

if 1 person plays 2 toons and they do something on each toon the LS profits of (like getting ada tod and doing sea farming at the same time) they get points for each toon. If 1 person logs a friend in to lot something and they camp on their main toon they get only points for their main.

~Do you treat them as though they're there?

if they have enough points to lot an item yeah we do.

~What about players who share accounts, not playing their own account but their friend's so friend can get an item if it drops?

see above

~What if someone is dual boxed and they're up for a drop? Do they get it?

our lootsystem is a lil bit different than the ones from other LS. we have a mix of DKP and Wishlist. If someone who is up for a drop for their "2nd" and they have enough points they get it but they won't get the same item for their "1st" toon in the future.

~If John takes a few months break but Jim plays his character, who gets the points?

Jim

~What are the consequences if someone has been "RPing" as the person who owns the account, but isn't the original player and is discovered?

kick.

[Septimus]

Of course, for one person who just uses two characters (due to friend quitting, 2nd character, wanting a galka love slave, etc) then you just treat as one character for things with the possible exception of ZNM, since they literally do twice the work and are twice as efficient for it.

Hey, he's not a Galka love slave, he is an awesome raising machine who shoots out Devotions that cause Paladins to lose the ability to walk straight for a week and sit without one of those therapeutic donut pillows.

[Apessius]

^ was the case basically. A dynamis zone was changed kinda last minute from bastok to Glacier and the person up for RDM is out of town (working i believe). RL close friend (also in LS) logged him in for the possible drop. And it dropped. Guy may have missed 3-4 runs in 6+ months (yes hes been in shell longer than that, thats just the attendance list in front of me atm). Also person that was not there doesnt get a point for the run, no.

Exact same thing happened to me. <3 Thris for logging me on and getting my af2 rdm body for me.. In my opinion, the dual boxer gets the points, if someone is out of town or unable to play and they can have someone PLAY their character.. not log in and use it like a mule (especially if that person has shown their worth and they deserve the item), then by all means, pass the item to them.

If however you have someone dualboxing and a freelot item drops then one lot for the two characters. One person in my shell dualboxes his/her friend's blm character a lot and would use that character to lot on items that he/she lost the lot on.. items not blm specific, like B. Kote. That person has been kicked.. thank god.