Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[futan]

It's possible that Jackyl's group already skipped some mobs. I mean, where are Gurfurlur and Gulool Ja? The 4 Salvage bosses >> 3 Besieged mobs >> 1 Besieged Leader >> 2 Generals before depop. Following the pattern Gurfurlur and Gulool Ja Ja should've been after Medusa. Perhaps it's time based. They said they Kraken Blood Weaponed Medusa, maybe killing the 1st in group fast prevents the others from popping?

[Ahlah]

I don't normally respond to thread like this, just want to point out that straight tanking PW without killing all the lamps is not impossible, at least not by players' characters.

The most intriguing part of PW fight is the location where it spawns. The design of T4 fight is well thought, basically prevent other LS from stealing Tyger/Tinnin/Sayamera if the group that pop them wipe. I always thought PW fight should take place behind some sort of forbidden gate which can only be opened with Pandemonium key but SE make it spawn in Aydeewa Subterrane instead. All BSTs know leeches and slimes make good pet tanks. They hit hard and have high damage resistance. At least in theory it's possible for a group of BST/SMN/PUP to pet burn PW without killing the lamps.

[Guitarman]

I don't normally respond to thread like this, just want to point out that straight tanking PW without killing all the lamps is not impossible, at least not by players' characters.

The most intriguing part of PW fight is the location where it spawns. The design of T4 fight is well thought, basically prevent other LS from stealing Tyger/Tinnin/Sayamera if the group that pop them wipe. I always thought PW fight should take place behind some sort of forbidden gate which can only be opened with Pandemonium key but SE make it spawn in Aydeewa Subterrane instead. All BSTs know leeches and slimes make good pet tanks. They hit hard and have high damage resistance. At least in theory it's possible for a group of BST/SMN/PUP to pet burn PW without killing the lamps.

It's a good theory; but it's too constricting from a gameplay standpoint. Requiring an ally of just those jobs to kill PW is asking a bit much. Good luck finding that many people with those jobs leveled to kill PW. The great thing about the whole znm system is that anyone can do it. Most if not all znm mobs can be killed a myriad of different ways. Sure some are easier than others, but everyone can participate.

[Kaylia]

It's possible that Jackyl's group already skipped some mobs. I mean, where are Gurfurlur and Gulool Ja? The 4 Salvage bosses >> 3 Besieged mobs >> 1 Besieged Leader >> 2 Generals before depop. Following the pattern Gurfurlur and Gulool Ja Ja should've been after Medusa. Perhaps it's time based. They said they Kraken Blood Weaponed Medusa, maybe killing the 1st in group fast prevents the others from popping?

I was thinking about this the other day, but it would be kinda lame to punish a slow (usually low man) kill. I hope its not the case.

[Lyramion]

It's possible that Jackyl's group already skipped some mobs. I mean, where are Gurfurlur and Gulool Ja? The 4 Salvage bosses >> 3 Besieged mobs >> 1 Besieged Leader >> 2 Generals before depop.

While I think the title theory might be hot - isn´t it unlikely that an LS with jackyls endgame hunger didn´t have a Chariot Title that day? Or tehy already done with salvage?

I don´t know. Seems unlikely but still possible. Someone give otu some info on the Salvage status of that LS.

[Suiram]

I was thinking that, too, but then I realized that if their LS had fought some HNM earlier that day or the day before, most of the people in the alliance would probably have that title instead.

[Norellicus]

Fuck Square-Enix.

Ohai ono

[Purrrfect]

If it were title based, wouldn't it then have to be current title and not just one you've acquired?

Also, just to throw more /random out there, what the possibility of archaic mirrors affecting at least the beastmen forms? Maybe currently "fallen in besieged" generals affecting general forms?

edit: Not sure how to account for salvage mobs and such, maybe some you just have to fight or there is some other trick.

[phantomphr34k]

It's a good theory; but it's too constricting from a gameplay standpoint. Requiring an ally of just those jobs to kill PW is asking a bit much. Good luck finding that many people with those jobs leveled to kill PW.

http://monstersinc-ls.info/

Always found these guys interesting, would like to see them try it and see how it goes. Maybe they have a purpose to the forward progress of the game after all.

[Max™]

That is one point, in a kited PW with the gears up, Bst pets would be a nice disposable source of constant damage, melee's whittling at it, DoT's, nukes in passing, Smn's, Pup's.


I'm basically trying to avoid the thought of having to do Ix'DRK with all the Aerns in the room respawning every RR, linking tenaciously, with summons repopping every RR, and the Smn's/Links's are as tough as Jailers too.

Doesn't show any sign of being close to being done with the respawning.

Chariots, Besieged mobs, Besieged bosses, Generals, leaving what to choose from?

Unique AU NM's?

Alexander with little Odins (lol!), Cerb/Hydra/Khim Round 2 (god, what would the lamps be? ele's, coli's, imps?), Vampyr with Bat lamps? I'm sure with a little thought you could extrapolate the theme it followed through some horrible possibilities.

[Jkun]

Alexander with little Odins (lol!)

lmfao, I want to draw that so bad. Like a big kid Alexander playing with little plastic soldier Odins.

[Max™]

Well, there are some that would make more sense than others, but there are still a lot of options left just by the ones we've seen, Gulool, Gurf, Mihli, Naje, Ruggie, Odin with 8 of his Valkyries (or all 9, yay!), etc, etc.

[Neosutra]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but isnt there a way to determine what mob types are in the dats for each zone? i.e. wasnt the Dvergr type for PW orginally found there, are the chariot boss types and medusa also found in that zone? Or does "transforming" into something negate the need to reserve a .dat spot for that object? Just a bit confused how we can still not know the transformations possible.

[zoobernut]

If I remember correctly it was stated before that the .dats only showed 2 types of PW which would mean that something else is going on in the .dats that the miners are not familiar with in how it is structured.

[Max™]

Simple answer?

SE got smart on us, has anyone actually taken all 30 Lamp models and examined them in Modelviewer? It's possible they might be the .dat's for the other forms, and just named as such since they knew we'd .dat mine, see the 30 Lamps and assume he'd spawn some or all of them, when in reality he just spawns 8, and the other 22 are hidden .dat's for his other forms.

[Sagacious Sundi]

and the other 22 are hidden .dat's for his other forms.

Then wouldn't 22/24 of his forms be named "Pandemonium Lamp"? (EDIT: In case anyone says "but CS NPCs can change their name mid-cutscene. Look at Cait Sith! She goes from ??? to Regal Feline to Cait Sith!" In that case, the names would just be for text purposes. The actual Cait Sith walking around in the cutscene might be named ???, Regal Feline, Cait Sith, or one of those " " found in like everyone zone's .dats.)

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but isnt there a way to determine what mob types are in the dats for each zone? i.e. wasnt the Dvergr type for PW orginally found there, are the chariot boss types and medusa also found in that zone? Or does "transforming" into something negate the need to reserve a .dat spot for that object? Just a bit confused how we can still not know the transformations possible.

Pretty sure when .dat miners find new models, it's not from area .dats. Otherwise people wouldn't have "speculated" that PW used the red dvergr model, they would have pretty known.

[Max™]

Well, there is one idea I just had...

Why would you need 8 .dat's for the 8 gear lamps? 1 .dat used 8 times would work fine.

The 2 PW .dats could be placeholders to give the transition slot between forms, and the actual .dat used is taken from the hidden ones in the lamp files.

...or

Each file could just have a misleading name to throw us off, and each one is a unique model.

So you would have Dvergr + Skull, Chariot + Gear, Medusa + Lamia, Zaz + Trooper, suggesting 14 or 15 possible forms.

1 Dvergr
4 Chariots
3 Besieged mobs
3 Beastman kings
5 Generals

+16 Unique lamps for them, 2 PW + 30 Lamps makes 32 .dat files.

That seems like more than a coincidence.

[Khamsin]

You can view models, you can view .dats (which contain monster names only), but you can't tell what model is assigned to what .dat entry.

That must be assigned by the server, although maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can tell whether it's possible to see which models are currently loaded into memory for a zone. Or are the models loaded only as they are used, and not ahead of time?

[Sagacious Sundi]

Well, there is one idea I just had...

Why would you need 8 .dat's for the 8 gear lamps? 1 .dat used 8 times would work fine.

The 2 PW .dats could be placeholders to give the transition slot between forms, and the actual .dat used is taken from the hidden ones in the lamp files.

...or

Each file could just have a misleading name to throw us off, and each one is a unique model.

So you would have Dvergr + Skull, Chariot + Gear, Medusa + Lamia, Zaz + Trooper, suggesting 14 or 15 possible forms.

1 Dvergr
4 Chariots
3 Besieged mobs
3 Beastman kings
5 Generals

+16 Unique lamps for them, 2 PW + 30 Lamps makes 32 .dat files.

That seems like more than a coincidence.

But why would only PW need different .dats for different models? There's 8 lamps with at least 7 models (I counted the different troopers as 1), so going by your idea, there'd need to be at least 16 for PW's forms and 48 for the each of the 8 lamp's forms that we know of.

Kinda EDIT: Khamsin got it.

[Max™]

Looking at is if it was a big bait and switch, the 2 PW names is just to fuck with us, literally.

The key would be 32 files, 16 Monsters would flesh out the pattern shown, with 16 Lamps tied to them.