Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[pohibaba]

...

It isn't something I'm suggesting without reason or correlation, the amount of lamps up had an effect on his form upon repop, if it hadn't, I wouldn't think it would matter.

The titles idea has flaws, but it has problems too, just like what I was suggesting, considering the lacking gadalar title, and ridiculousness of obtaining AC recovery titles.

Could both have a part, yes, could both be wrong, yes, could one or the other be the trick, yes, is focusing exclusively on one line of thought generally a sound method to approach things with?

Too bad that there's one major flaw in your theory: the people who have actually fought PW have said it would be nearly impossible to put it down without taking care of the lamps first.

This is the type of thing Rocl was talking about. Sure, your theory may sound good in theory, but in the real world it's probably not even possible to test it. That's why you shouldn't speculate without first hand knowledge of the fight.

[Theenabler]

This is the type of thing Rocl was talking about. Sure, your theory may sound good in theory, but in the real world it's probably not even possible to test it. That's why you shouldn't speculate without first hand knowledge of the fight.

Last i checked this thread was called "Pandemonium Warden - The Aftermath Theories" Pretty sure Max has read the thread and knows about the enmity problems, and i beleive he has posted ways to possibly work against them. So from what your saying, only people that have fought Pande already are allowed to post their theories here. Hear what he has to say, if you dont like it, ignore it. Not like he's tellin us everyone should go take pictures of it and hit ebon panels and shit.

[Rocl]

He's telling us that his theory is the absolute best though. He's throwing a hissy-fit because his inane theory isn't the popular one. Lest us not forget, he's telling us he doesn't even participate in this content. People who don't have sea shouldn't bitch about their Absolute Virtue theories, people who don't kill ZNMs shouldn't bitch about their Pandemonium Warden theories. It is absolutely ridiculous he thinks his shitling theory is somehow more plausible then any other one.

Personally, I'm in agreement with Rukenshin that it's just supposed to be a retardedly long fight, and works on anti-AV pop system. However, notice how I'm standing around yelling at the people discussing their theories pushing mine? Oh yah, that might be the difference here.

[Theenabler]

I'll agree he's being retartedly persistent with pushing this theory, but still, yelling at someone for posting a theory, just because he doesnt do znms is stupid. You don't have to be working on a pop set to try and help someone out with a theory. My linkshell hardly does any endgame, does that mean i have no clue whats goin on with it? No. I do beleive this conversation would have gone alot differently if Max hadn't posted his theory 3 times on each page of this thread, but still.

[Rocl]

He is the equivalent of someone who's never fought a Jailer, much less an Aern giving pointers on Absolute Virtue from what he's said.

Would you listen to that person?

[Kaylia]

Personally, I'm in agreement with Rukenshin that it's just supposed to be a retardedly long fight, and works on anti-AV pop system. However, notice how I'm standing around yelling at the people discussing their theories pushing mine? Oh yah, that might be the difference here.

If AV is suposed to be a 18h fight, it's very possible this one last just as long. >_> But until then, we can hope it's not the case. At least, we know this one can be killed some way..or at least, we saw some progress after 2 fights.

[Guitarman]

Yeah I agree. Hearing the bit about how AV was supposed to take up to 18 hours to kill changed my whole perspective on this fight. It seems more and more likely that PW will follow suit. Hell, for all we know he has a random number of forms, kinda like Ix' and we just gotta keep knocking him down until he decides to drop for good.

[Theenabler]

He is the equivalent of someone who's never fought a Jailer, much less an Aern giving pointers on Absolute Virtue from what he's said.

Would you listen to that person?

I think i'll just let him defend himself at this point cuz it sounds a bit more personal to me ._.

[LD]

Both fights probably require a level of End Game cooperation that's not simply limited by politics, but raw experience and gear.

Lemme just throw this one out there.
AV is an 18 hour fight. Ok, fine. Lets assume AV isn't currently broken, that what we figured out about his regen is the key to killing him, and there are no more theories to pursue. Lets now assume that the mass killings are intentional. How could you continue making progress? Switching in new players, making pot shots before you die, repeat. With regen completely dead, you could do 1 damage and be making progress. SE doesn't expect a single LS to kill it, they expect half the server to kill it, that is probably why it's an 18 hour fight. Throw legion after legion of person from every time zone at this thing until it dies. It fits the regen thing, SE's 'bringing the world together' horseshit, the meteor & aeroga spam to keep a single group of people from trying to kill it themselves. Hell, 'Absolute Virtue.' Love and togetherness with your fellow man, allowing others, friends and enemies, the opportunity to get what you want. We might be failing because we expect it to be doable by, at most, 100 people when we actually have to do this in shifts, like a bunch of fucking steel workers.

Right outta my ass and I'm sure people who actually fought AV can poke holes in it, but it fits from where I'm sitting.


Oh, also personal feelings are irrelevant. The only thing that ever matters is the mission, Jack.

[Spira]

Benediction would totally ruin that.

I'm one for the theory that (now i know u'll laugh at this but...) Kirin, AV and PW were designed as equals...
well.. at least in the sense that they're the 3 only popped "HNMs" (by HNM here my definition is one of an NM that can deal damage to anyone in the area with an AoE regardless of hate, in an open environment) and each comes from a different expansion.
At least when Kirin was first released, he was considered very high level content and a normal fight with him would at least constitute an hours length.. pretty uncommon for his time (the Zilart era)..
Of course, things have changed, Kirin is zergable.. and so on.. but mostly because players have scaled up in power by merits/new JA/gear whilst he has remained the same...
but I'm guessing AV was designed with a more... future-proofed AI/mob characteristics, so that he would always remain a challenge even as CoP content ages. They must have taken the same approach with PW as well.. but perhaps on a smaller scale.

I still don't believe in the whole 'half the server' required to kill AV thing because people are selfish and you have like up to 7 drops from him and no one will want to let someone else get that other than themselves.. With PW its even worse cos he is popped by trigger and not by 'luck' after a trigger pop.. so you're paying exclusively to see him, instead of him just being the bonus trailer after the movie...

There really isn't much left to be said about PW for now until we can get a 3rd pop running and debunking/proving/solving more mysteries about him...

[Kaylia]

Both fights probably require a level of End Game cooperation that's not simply limited by politics, but raw experience and gear.

Lemme just throw this one out there.
AV is an 18 hour fight. Ok, fine. Lets assume AV isn't currently broken, that what we figured out about his regen is the key to killing him, and there are no more theories to pursue. Lets now assume that the mass killings are intentional. How could you continue making progress? Switching in new players, making pot shots before you die, repeat. With regen completely dead, you could do 1 damage and be making progress. SE doesn't expect a single LS to kill it, they expect half the server to kill it, that is probably why it's an 18 hour fight. Throw legion after legion of person from every time zone at this thing until it dies. It fits the regen thing, SE's 'bringing the world together' horseshit, the meteor & aeroga spam to keep a single group of people from trying to kill it themselves. Hell, 'Absolute Virtue.' Love and togetherness with your fellow man, allowing others, friends and enemies, the opportunity to get what you want. We might be failing because we expect it to be doable by, at most, 100 people when we actually have to do this in shifts, like a bunch of fucking steel workers.

Right outta my ass and I'm sure people who actually fought AV can poke holes in it, but it fits from where I'm sitting.


Oh, also personal feelings are irrelevant. The only thing that ever matters is the mission, Jack.

Well, AV doesn't have that much hp. People killed it in what...1h maybe? Hopefully, the 18 hours was a joke .

But either way, even if I had the time, people, jobs and gears for a 18 hours fight, I don't even want to do it. The drama following isn't going to be worth the hassle

[Spira]

Its probably a joke..
if people managed to down AV with wall of justice and the old lockdown method in less than 2hrs then theres no plausible reason why a normal alliance needs to take 9x as much time...

And im pretty sure they didn't adjust his HP or whatever... If you can somehow manage to handle the Aeroga IV and Meteor.. and then pray that Benediction doesnt occur.. the only thing holding you back is the regen which can be negated.

[Mojo]

For fuck sake, this is not even remotely similar to AV. Why turn this into an AV thread.

[LD]

Because it is taking more effort than what would seem reasonable. That will always draw an AV comparison.

[RKenshin]

Isn't like, an 18 hour AV fight completely ass-backwards from what SE makes you agree to about remembering your family, friends, work, etc... Every time you log on?

Nice one, SE.

Would you mind posting your Tinnin drops? I'm a bit curious about something atm.

I don't think I screen shotted many if any drops from him.

We killed him 6 times, got 3 triggers, 2 harness drops, a few katanas/caps, no clubs, no sune-ate.

[Max™]

No, I didn't say it was the best.

I said there is something which is being overlooked, and that either there is some strat workable for killing him with lamps up which kills him once and is a pain, or you have to go through a minimum of 3 or 4 forms on some servers due to not having AC titles, Gadalar titles, plus the PW title.

I'd like to see both tested, if for example he gets popped with all four chariot titles, and spawns as a chariot, there is a problem with that theory.


Show me where I said this is the best and only idea, I said it could be completely unrelated, and would likely be stupidly fucking hard.

Anyway, I'm done with the argument, it won't get anywhere when you get dismissed due to personal bias as opposed to logic or data, and it's managed to derail it into an AV discussion somehow.

[Mojo]

I tried looking but I couldn't find an answer to this. Does anyone know if the Pandemonium Lamps can be stunned? If hate is well maintained by kiters, I'm thinking an alliance of BLM and a couple SCH/DRK can time ga III with an Alacrity + Manifestation Stun to prevent the ensuing TP spam might be a quick way to eliminate lamps.

[richardd]

I tried looking but I couldn't find an answer to this. Does anyone know if the Pandemonium Lamps can be stunned? If hate is well maintained by kiters, I'm thinking an alliance of BLM and a couple SCH/DRK can time ga III with an Alacrity + Manifestation Stun to prevent the ensuing TP spam might be a quick way to eliminate lamps.

depends on the lamps. Certain lamps can be stunned like the mamool's but the gears and others cant.

[Starr]

So are BTL gonna pop Pande today?

[Tricen]

Can't wait to see what happens :3