Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[ronin sparthos]

Well. That sums it up then.

Square-Enix has once again teased players with good gear, lured them in with a half-way decent system then..... fucks the players in the ass with an endurance fight that looks like they took every liberty to NOT be AV yet be AV at the same time.

Looks like the devs really have jumped the shark with this game.

[Zoot]

I am usually a very level headed person when it comes to GMs, and I've never actually gotten MAD at one. I understand that they can't actually do anything about this type of thing. But last night, I am pretty sure I made a GM call and just bitched the fuck out of the one that responded. When the GM told me that they were sorry that we weren't up to the challenge that SE gave to us, I just unloaded on him. I am pretty sure when I log on I'll be in mordion goal lol.

Yea I kind of regret that. Not because I'll be in jail because honestly right now my spirit is broken and I'm contemplating WoW, but because I know the poor dude had nothing to do with it.

[Bozo]

It was mentioned before that you can't just equip whatever you have on and fight it but I do have a few questions. How many LS's were spectating? How many people were in the zone excluding you? You mentioned relic's, how many did you have and which? At any point did you not care about drops and want to CFH the warden and get as many people as possible on it?

[Blackice]

Off the top of my head we had... 2 yoichi's, 1 amano, 1 mandau, 2 horns, 1 aegis, 1 apoc.

As for spectators, there was never a whole LS or even close to it watching. We went a solid 14 hours or so w/o any watchers and at the end I think there was maybe 20-30 people that weren't with us in the zone watching.

[Zoot]

We did have a lot of spectators at one point, maybe fifteen? Most were wiped because of Astral Flow by the time the last form was about. I'd say we had around seven spectators, mostly white mages healing and raising (Thank you all for your help), but I'm not sure if they were all awake.

We had Ruke with amano and Citlin with apoc, Muteki with amano and Yoichi, Miki with Yoichi, Rave with Mandau, Danerys with Aegis, Shadida as RNG, Releena as WAR for awhile until one of our Paladins started having internet trouble, and also after awhile into the fight having issues with insane TP moves we had some of our melees change to SMN. We don't see that a whole lot in BtL but this mob forced us to sometimes play it old Kirin kite style. We had Syl and Ormus as relic BRDs, and ~15 black mages, four summoners. I can't remember what else if someone wants to amend or correct that.

[Loziel]

UNBELIEVABLE

Kudos to everyone for such a valiant effort.

I just cant understand why SE decides to take things to such extremes in the more recent expansions. There just seems to be no gradient when it comes to preparing us for the ultimate battles

This is an illustration of the ZNM difficulty as i see it

T1
*
T2
**
T3
***
T4
****
PW
************************************************** ************************************************** *****************

This can easily be swapped out for Jailers and AV, but thats another topic so i wont go there


It is unreasonable to expect anyone to defeat such a challenge and serves no purpose other than to further torment their playerbase. Does anyone else feel like we are all victims trapped in an abusive relationship?

Total Bullshit

[Maxxthepenguin]

I tink it removs CFH between froms so u shud CFH and get evry ls to help

Spoiler: show

blame rocl

[fishstix]

This is completely beyond the limits of reason.

xD

[Gunslinger]

Was literally just going to post what Loziel said. The scaling is fucking pathetic, I'm actually physically mad on your guys behalf lol.

[shihei]

My JP friend just told me you have to kill the lamps all at once with firaga to "light" the lamps and PW will be defeated. Each mode just makes different drops 100%.



























Sorry, I had to.

[richardd]

that's truly is amazing teamwork for you guys to fight it as long as you guys did. you def progressed passed what we got done. that itself earns respect on many levels. i am sorry you couldn't have finished it though, i kinda feel bad because i told you to expect a 4-5 hour fight... not *14-15. How did that kiting path go? Did you guys run into any trouble w/it? And holy shit@ that hydra, lol...

[kayn]

... they LOVE their FINAL FANTASY YEEEEAAAAH BABY.

Shit needs to get renamed weaboo online and then the playerbase atleast knows what to expect.

Sigg'd

[Chupunpupun]

PW is SE's ingenious plan to divert attention away from AV. Hell, they can raise the lvl cap to 80 and we still be spending 10+ hours fighting PW.

[Awoir]

This is completely beyond the limits of reason.

But is it beyond the limitation?

[Tarage]

Vote with your wallets folks.

I don't know when I first started to realize SE no longer cared about us. For the longest time I was one of those folks on GameFAQs yelling at the 'WoWfags' who attempted to troll us. I would point to awesome events such as FanFest 06 as proof. Maybe it was FanFest 07 that finally brought my mind into sanity. I have come to respect Blizzard for their customer service and willingness to assist the fan base. Granted, they aren't perfect, but I'd work for that company given the chance. I wouldn't even give SE a piece of paper with feces on it as my resume. For all I know, that is how they hire people anyway.

I don't know what SE's developers are thinking, but from a Programing standpoint, this game is a failure. I know, I've seen games made. I've been a part of trying to chase down every last glitch and bug. It is readily apparent that SE does not even half-ass this. I am 100% sure that there was no focus testing on this HNM. They just threw together a bunch of numbers they thought were do-able and let it loose. What a horrible company.

I remember something similar happening in my experience playing a game called Ragnarok Online. At one point, after the game went from free to pay, they attended Anime Expo. I was thrilled that I got to stand up and ask then 'Why the hell are the international servers so far behind all the rest?' I, of course, did not get an answer. I quit the game after that.

I've considered quitting this game as well on several occasions. I've had good friends and people I started playing with simply vanish. Sure, I've made new ones, but it doesn't excuse things. I think the closest I've come to quitting was when my account was hijacked recently. I said to myself that 'If I don't get my items back, I'm gone.' I got them back, so I'm still here, for now. However, the fact that the item restoration process was a one time thing has probably pushed me even closer. If I am ever hijacked again, I'm gone.

Sadly, that is the problem most of us are currently facing. We keep saying 'One more chance, one more chance.' SE keeps blowing these 'one more chance's. Yet here we are, wondering what we have done with our lives. People are getting sick because of this game. I'm patently awaiting the day that someone dies, because I know the backlash it will cause. I don't look forward to it, but I know it is coming. This fight is proof of that.

The time has come to vote with your wallet. If you are sick and tired of SE and their almost xenophobic practices, absolutely pathetic customer service, and horrendous design/programing skills, deactivate your account. Perhaps even take your good friends with you. But don't look back. For a while, SE would end all of their GM calls with me reminding me of their 'Welcome Back' program. I firmly believe that they would love nothing more than to have someone quit and come back on a cyclical basis.

I'll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite in this regard. I will not be quitting. I suppose it is because I am not as heavy involved in the endgame community that I don't feel as affected. Still, I thought perhaps my 2 cents might help someone have the clarity of mind I do not. Feel free to disregard everything I have just said. Either way, the day is fast approaching when I too will move on from this video game abortion. Perhaps I'll pick up Duke Nukem Forever...

[Tyrath]

Count again. 20 jobs. Oh wait, AU team doesn't care about DNC and SCH. I forgot.

I never said there aren't 20 jobs. But there aren't 20 alliance spots

[Therin]

Before BtL posted their experience, I was actually contemplating if there was a shortcut to him and the forms represented the drops, as you said, but of course this isn't the case as now we know there are way more forms than there are possible items in the drop table.

[Zoot]

@Richardd

The way you suggested, keeping an infinite loop by getting drawn in was an excellent plan. I'll note a few of the dilemmas we got into with it though.

The first problem we ran into was that when the Dvergr spawned after we defeated a form, and casted the Stun Aoe on everyone, the next form rushed after whoever had hate last and then picked people off on its hate list. We had to make sure the tanks had hate and then disband the party quickly.

If the tanks didn't get hate quickly, it picked off our damage dealers one by one which slowed down the lamp phase. And we couldn't properly kite because the entire ally would have been drawn in. And also, once our tanks did get hate the lag from having everyone in such a close proximity would stall them long enough so that PW and the Lamps got enough hits off to kill them.

What we started to do was have all the healers and people without a a large amount of hate clear out towards 3-2%, and have the tanks and a designated person high on the hate list stay close. If the tanks didn't have hate, the designated person with hate would kite pw until the tank party (which then disbanded from alliance) claimed with hate.

On the gear form, having healers in party was a pain in the ass. The gears were of course very hard to pull off of PW because of the weird shared hate. The Artificial gravity and a buffed up Rail Cannon would hit the tanks as they spawned into the middle area from draw in, because they were so hard to move. This caused some messiness at the beginning, both from the tanks getting gravitied and the healers dying because the tanks only have ~2 seconds to gtfo once they are drawn in before getting eaten by PW and its lamps, so they can't really stop to cure and get hate back.

What we did for this form was have one white mage in the tank party to erase and two healers out of party sit at either tunnel to heal as the kiters passed, because its at these points that the kiters tend to get hit the hardest.

The next problem we encountered was that a few forms have increased movement speed.

We first experienced this with Zazarg, who moved at at least 15% movement speed along with his helper soldiers. Instead of kiting this form, we had ruke supertank while the pld party held a few of the lamps.

Amendment: Only Zazarg and his mnks were a problem with their movement speed in relation to the generals, the others were pretty easy to kite because they either stopped to cast or ranged attack.

The next problem we had with this was with Khimaria and his puks, who all moved at increased movement speed. We really didn't have a way we could supertank this because khim hits like a truck AND moves with increased speed, so instead we had a tank run in, invincible and get a head start where we could pick off 4-5 of the weak puks before restarting. It only took us two tries, after the first time we had so many puks down that we were able to keep the tanks alive.

Khimaria's fullmination was insane, and we fought it with wings up the entire time, as well as hydra having all three heads + regen the full fight and cerb having access to GoH from 100%. Fullmination wasn't too bad of a problem, we just had a Fullmination go off while we were kiting to recover from lamps and it hit the entire Damage alliance...which left us in really bad shape. Then a missed stun and oh boy. Khim and Cerb weren't resistant to stun but Hydra was.

[Hashmalum]

I think we should make a huge fucking petition >_>.

And don't forget, each petitioner should have a different ToAU title. And you need to have one group of titled petitioners per server, even Atomos, and they all need to use their 2 hours on the day of that ability's element while screaming "FUCK YOU SE" in unison and touching an Ebon Panel. And if it's not done exactly right the dev team will Chainspell Meteor and then despawn and you'll have to try it again next year.

[ronin sparthos]

Sadly, that is the problem most of us are currently facing. We keep saying 'One more chance, one more chance.' SE keeps blowing these 'one more chance's. Yet here we are, wondering what we have done with our lives. People are getting sick because of this game. I'm patently awaiting the day that someone dies, because I know the backlash it will cause. I don't look forward to it, but I know it is coming. This fight is proof of that.

That'd be a quick way to get AV and Pandy 'fixed' - someone dies attempting the 16-24hour fight x.x

The time has come to vote with your wallet. If you are sick and tired of SE and their almost xenophobic practices, absolutely pathetic customer service, and horrendous design/programing skills, deactivate your account. Perhaps even take your good friends with you. But don't look back. For a while, SE would end all of their GM calls with me reminding me of their 'Welcome Back' program. I firmly believe that they would love nothing more than to have someone quit and come back on a cyclical basis.

Many people play this game for their friends at this point and not because they truely enjoy the game. Most of these people after FFXI will probably not purchase another SE MMO partly because the next MMO wont be FF-themed and those people will remember the AVs, the nerfings, the lack of responses on issues unless your JP, the shitty customer service etc etc.

While many people will continue to play this game, SE wont be truely affected until the next MMO launches and the playerbase they beat the shit out of and ignored doesnt come back.

I for one thought that this HNM would turn out to be a real challenge that tested linkshells that attempted to spawn him but i was mistaken, this is just another broken as fuck/sadistic monster that is purposely designed to frustrate and keep people speculating for years to come.

I cant wait till fanfest when SE says "Oh, we gave you a new challenging monster and it's too early to help you people even though we have data that only x amount of linkshells have popped and across the board people are screaming its too hard".