Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[Colenzo]

And don't forget, each petitioner should have a different ToAU title. And you need to have one group of titled petitioners per server, even Atomos, and they all need to use their 2 hours on the day of that ability's element while screaming "FUCK YOU SE" in unison and touching an Ebon Panel. And if it's not done exactly right the dev team will Chainspell Meteor and then despawn and you'll have to try it again next year.

lolwut

[Correction]

Many people play this game for their friends at this point and not because they truely enjoy the game. Most of these people after FFXI will probably not purchase another SE RPG

SE is king of multi-day marathon grinds in their RPGs. Remember raising a golden chocobo in VII? How long did you take to prepare for and kill Yazmat in XII?

SE won't stop just because you quit FFXI. They'll stop when you refuse to buy XIII and buy competitor's products, instead. I hear Fallout 3 is going to be fun. BioWare really is making a Star Wars MMO. Hint, hint.

At any rate I don't seriously see people outside of Rukenshin's linkshell quitting over how unkillable PW is. All it means is that the pop items will now just accrue endlessly now that we have a 19 hour nightmare on record. I don't see people trying Lyr's 'two linkshells take turns sleeping' suggestion ever. Maybe it was fun sleeping in shifts the first time a shell tried to kill AV. I doubt now, years later, that people see any merit in repeating that.

[Tyrath]

SE is king of multi-day marathon grinds in their RPGs. Remember raising a golden chocobo in VII? How long did you take to prepare for and kill Yazmat in XII?

Hmm.

Except you can take those 1 hour at a time if you wish. Nothing like that can compare to a 18 hour fight that pandemonium seems to be.

[Correction]

But the encounter design philosophy carries through. They honestly don't give a shit if they make something that takes you 24 hours to accomplish, with or without the ability to save progress, often for zero reward. That's just how they know how to make games. They're set in their ways.

[Zoot]

Someone was mentioning last night on vent that SE must, still, not realize that the Pause and Save buttons that exists for their console games does not exist for MMOs.

[ronin sparthos]

SE is king of multi-day marathon grinds in their RPGs. Remember raising a golden chocobo in VII? How long did you take to prepare for and kill Yazmat in XII?

SE won't stop just because you quit FFXI. They'll stop when you refuse to buy XIII and buy competitor's products, instead. I hear Fallout 3 is going to be fun. BioWare really is making a Star Wars MMO. Hint, hint.

At any rate I don't seriously see people outside of Rukenshin's linkshell quitting over how unkillable PW is. All it means is that the pop items will now just accrue endlessly now that we have a 19 hour nightmare on record. I don't see people trying Lyr's 'two linkshells take turns sleeping' suggestion ever. Maybe it was fun sleeping in shifts the first time a shell tried to kill AV. I doubt now, years later, that people see any merit in repeating that.

I actually meant MMORPG, we all know that SE RPGs are most of the times head and shoulders above the competition.

The actions of SEs actions towards the playerbase over the years wont be truely seen until the next MMO launches which wont have the "Final Fantasy" label to save it. Creations like Pandemonium Warden which question the sanity of the developers will come into play when someones considering what their next MMO might be and if they are really willing to throw down another 5years of tiered responses, shitty service etc etc.

On FFXII: You could save for Yiazmat, Zodiark wasnt hard if you prepared for it and worse comes to worse - you could always cap levels and 'cheese it' that way.

[Lordender]

LMFAO just made my day reading this. SE dev's have more severe cases of down-syndrome than I originally thought was possible.

[drwaffles]

I was going to mention FFXII's Yiazmat in relation to the issue with what looks to be a retardedly lengthy fight involved in taking down PW. If SE really wanted to implement a "marathon" battle in FFXI then they should also have implemented a way for groups to (for want of a better word) "save" their progress whilst fighting this mob.

Perhaps, for example, each successive form could drop an item used to pop the next form, simultaneously providing some much-needed breathing room between forms and allowing a group to call it a day and come back another time to continue their battle. Of course this particular system wouldn't be very attractive since the "pop > kill > get next pop item > pop" mechanic is the very basis of the system used to access the fight itself, but it's just an example of what could be done to make this fight more manageable.

[Tyrath]

Perhaps, for example, each successive form could drop an item used to pop the next form, simultaneously providing some much-needed breathing room between forms and allowing a group to call it a day and come back another time to continue their battle. Of course this particular system wouldn't be very attractive since the "pop > kill > get next pop item > pop" mechanic is the very basis of the system used to access the fight itself, but it's just an example of what could be done to make this fight more manageable.

I was thinking of something like this as well. Maybe not each form, 20 checkpoints seem unnecessary. But something like each "group" of mobs could go at once. Like say the salvage chariots could be one group, beastmen kings 1 group, so on and so forth.

[Correction]

I think most people would not want to do the hydra/Khim/Cerb trio in one sitting. Otherwise it might not be so horrible. Too bad there are better ways to spend your LS's time than revisiting PW's 'progress' again and aagain.

[Tyrath]

I think most people would not want to do the hydra/Khim/Cerb trio in one sitting. Otherwise it might not be so horrible. Too bad there are better ways to spend your LS's time than revisiting PW's 'progress' again and aagain.

Well, compared to all 20 at once, Khim/Cerb/Hydra at once only seems pretty sane to me lol


Edit: Hell that might even be challenging within reason. But I say that without having fought them so I'm not completely sure exactly how bad they were.

[Oulanbator]

I don't want to sound harsh, but no one seems to consider they might not have fought it the right way !

I mean, I respect their 18+ hours involvement, but it seems obvious it isn't intended to be fought this way.

I've been told the first group that defeated Kirin made him run out of MP ( or the fight was so long Kirin ran out of MP w/e).
It seems obvious nowadays that the strategy to kill Kirin isn't to survive till it uses all its Mps. It probably took a shitload of time as well to burn all its Mps, but we also know at some point ( CoP release) most lses were able to kill Kirin in an hour or two.

Looking at this, it seems these guys used all of PW's form.
He spawned when he ran out of alternative forms.

I don't wanna sound know-it-all or w/e, but before trying to kill it, or mindlessly killing anything that is spawned, it sounds more logic to experiment on ways to :
- get rid of lamps
- prevent him from switching to another form

Now, how to do this ? I don't have a clue, I never had a chance to get into a group that fought PW myself

[Tyrath]

I don't want to sound harsh, but no one seems to consider they might not have fought it the right way !

I mean, I respect their 18+ hours involvement, but it seems obvious it isn't intended to be fought this way.

Just like AV right? I mean if this was the first time SE threw something like this I might've been more inclined to see it from that point of view. But after AV I really don't doubt that it could be meant to be fought this way.

[kayn]

I disagree. I think it's been considered a bunch.
But we all thought that AV had a gimmick and were proven wrong.
I think it's safe to assume that this is just an insane fight and we're better off moving on with our lives.

[Demosthenes11]

I don't want to sound harsh, but no one seems to consider they might not have fought it the right way !

I mean, I respect their 18+ hours involvement, but it seems obvious it isn't intended to be fought this way.

I've been told the first group that defeated Kirin made him run out of MP ( or the fight was so long Kirin ran out of MP w/e).
It seems obvious nowadays that the strategy to kill Kirin isn't to survive till it uses all its Mps. It probably took a shitload of time as well to burn all its Mps, but we also know at some point ( CoP release) most lses were able to kill Kirin in an hour or two.

Looking at this, it seems these guys used all of PW's form.
He spawned when he ran out of alternative forms.

I don't wanna sound know-it-all or w/e, but before trying to kill it, or mindlessly killing anything that is spawned, it sounds more logic to experiment on ways to :
- get rid of lamps
- prevent him from switching to another form

Now, how to do this ? I don't have a clue, I never had a chance to get into a group that fought PW myself

uesless speculation is useless

Kirin ran out of mp / was aspired til he did because the damage was too much. PW doesnt deal too much damage neccessarily, he's just a huge cockbag

[Oulanbator]

I disagree. I think it's been considered a bunch.
But we all thought that AV had a gimmick and were proven wrong.
I think it's safe to assume that this is just an insane fight and we're better off moving on with our lives.

Then move on with your life and stop spamming this thread with your complaints and stuff.
Seriously, this thread is especially hard to read because 90% of the posts are only about people bitching that the thing can't be killed by brainlessly hitting it like a clipper. . .

Honestly, I'd appreciate if the BG team could clean this thread

[drwaffles]

No, just no. This is not the same game as when Kirin was released. If Kirin had never existed and was released today people would figure him out very quickly and wouldn't have any of the issues they had back then. People know so much about how the game works now that the "mayb u mised sumthin" argument almost never applies. BtL made progress during their marathon; if they hadn't then maybe you'd have the right to say something along those lines. This is a simple case of SE being completely and utterly retarded, and I hope for their sakes they sort this the fuck out and fast.

[Bakthi]

Perhaps, for example, each successive form could drop an item used to pop the next form, simultaneously providing some much-needed breathing room between forms and allowing a group to call it a day and come back another time to continue their battle. Of course this particular system wouldn't be very attractive since the "pop > kill > get next pop item > pop" mechanic is the very basis of the system used to access the fight itself, but it's just an example of what could be done to make this fight more manageable.

I bet if they did this, the pop items wouldn't drop 100% of the time. They really do seem antagonistic towards their player base.

Tarage summed up a lot of how I feel. If I quit, I would feel bad because even more weight would fall on my LS leader's shoulders. I'd miss doing Salvage with my friends, and some other stuff. But it's true, this game isn't nearly as fun as it used to be, at least for me. I've done everything but kings, finished some 400+ quests, and was finally going to get rank 10 in the other 2 nations after I settled down from the move. Maybe solo BLM, BLU, or DRG to 75 leisurely. But now...I don't know. Have you seen that intro deal for WoW, with the triple exp and shit? My brother plays WoW, and so do his roommates...I'm tempted almost daily now.

[Blackice]

I don't want to sound harsh, but no one seems to consider they might not have fought it the right way !

I mean, I respect their 18+ hours involvement, but it seems obvious it isn't intended to be fought this way.

I've been told the first group that defeated Kirin made him run out of MP ( or the fight was so long Kirin ran out of MP w/e).
It seems obvious nowadays that the strategy to kill Kirin isn't to survive till it uses all its Mps. It probably took a shitload of time as well to burn all its Mps, but we also know at some point ( CoP release) most lses were able to kill Kirin in an hour or two.

Looking at this, it seems these guys used all of PW's form.
He spawned when he ran out of alternative forms.

I don't wanna sound know-it-all or w/e, but before trying to kill it, or mindlessly killing anything that is spawned, it sounds more logic to experiment on ways to :
- get rid of lamps
- prevent him from switching to another form

Now, how to do this ? I don't have a clue, I never had a chance to get into a group that fought PW myself

This. Yes there are a ton of misspellings and typos in there, but that tends to happen when you've been fighting something for 12 hours.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/Ice1903/GMPW.jpg

[Zoot]

I'm not going to say there isn't another way to kill it. I hope there is, but quite honestly, let's take this into account. Between each form, the Dvergr spawned and then warped into the next. On the 20th form, the Dvergr was the mob that we fought and his behavior was different from all other mobs. I'm leaning towards being pretty certain that this is the last mob to fight.

If there is another way to do this without investing nearly an entire day into it, I really wish you luck on trying it, since I suppose that's what you're suggesting because you seem very enthusiastic and sure about it. I'm sure Ruke would even be glad to outline the strategies we used and formed along the way to make the battle faster.

I do not, however, recommend fighting this mob if you value the time in your life.