Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[Tarage]

I don't want to sound harsh, but no one seems to consider they might not have fought it the right way !

I mean, I respect their 18+ hours involvement, but it seems obvious it isn't intended to be fought this way.

And I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think anyone cares at this point, because we've all realized that SE is full of shit and this is another broken HNM!

You don't seem to understand that regardless of how the battle is fought, we were given absolutely no information about how to even go about this fight. If there truly is a way to make this fight easier, then SE should have at least given us a hint by now. But no, they have kept mum, and we resent them for it. It's the same with AV.

SE fails at customer service just like the fail at programing and design. You can bold/darkred/size all you want, but it doesn't change these facts. Until you actually do this fight, sit down and shut up. No one wants to hear speculation at this point. We want a fucking fix.

[Guitarman]

Then move on with your life and stop spamming this thread with your complaints and stuff.
Seriously, this thread is especially hard to read because 90% of the posts are only about people bitching that the thing can't be killed by brainlessly hitting it like a clipper. . .

Honestly, I'd appreciate if the BG team could clean this thread

If by clean up you mean get rid of your retarded speculation then yeah, im all for it. 2 of the best shells out there failed at killing this; ruke and co spent 19 FUCKING HOURS AT IT; i think we have a pretty good grasp of what was intended. You didn't hear the little snippet from sundi about how AV was SUPPOSED to last upwards of 18 hours to kill? How is this any different?

And the little bit about "brainlessly hitting it like a clipper" shows how fucking little you know. SaphereAude and Ruke's LS are both known for how good they are. If you spent more than 5 minutes reading one of Rukenshin's posts you'd have realized already he has a tendency to analyze the fuck out of things. Hence, why he is respected on these forums. Moron.

[Suiram]

What's odd is the order in which it they popped for different group, both within the same category and the order in which the categories were seen. Going off the info a few pages back, BtL's fight had the 5 categories: Salvage boss, Beseiged mobs, Generals, ToAU Beastmen Kings, Ein T3 bosses, in that order. Every category was exhausted of all of its mobs before moving to the next category.

However, according to info on page one of this thread and the end of the other one it was split from, Jackyl's LS did Salvage > Beseiged full categories, then Medusa, and then started the Generals before they called it a night. So what strikes me as odd is first off why the ToAU Beastmen Kings category was swapped with the Generals category, and also why they only saw Medusa out of the 3 from that set.

[Oulanbator]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/Ice1903/GMPW.jpg

You: "Just a little bit frustrated at this time it's taking to complete. unless we're doing something wrong."
GM: "After going though this batter you should be able to revise your strategy."
=> read: you are probably doing something wrong since the GM advices you to revise your strategy.

GM: "I do have to inform you that as it stands, the game is working as intended."
You: "It was planned for this monster to take 12+ hours to kill ?"
GM doesn't answer this...
=> read: no, it's not supposed to take so long with the right strategy


Well, it's easy for me to say this, I'm not angry and I'm not hurt or w/e... just quietly looking at this.
Like the GM, I'm impressed at your efforts and involvement.
The whole community learnt stuff thanks to you, so it's another step for the community towards victory.

I really wish you luck on trying it, since I suppose that's what you're suggesting because you seem very enthusiastic and sure about it. I'm sure Ruke would even be glad to outline the strategies we used and formed along the way to make the battle faster.

That would be really nice to do it.
Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to try it for now, though I'm gonna work toward this objective ( but it will probably take time).
However, I'm sure many people would be interested in quickly finding out experiments and strategies without being bugged but people complaining all the time.

It's not about customer service or w/e.
I know many people play FF games with game guides, though the games were meant to be done without any game guide thought attempts, failures, success, weird strategies... same applies here. Never give up

I wonder if another ls would be able to take over on PV to experiment if the ls that poped it decided to give up after a few hours ? Or would it despawn ?


(now time for me to sleep, and don't expect me to answer to every flaming troll >.> )

[Correction]

If PW could be fought in 6 stages (either by people getting lucky or discovering a trick to 'skipping' forms like Jackyl's LS somehow did) it would still take an absurd amount of time and lost EXP. The assumption is that BtL played like champs until people became physically exhausted. Divide the total #hours by 3 and add mistakes/dc's/shit happens and you still come up with 6-7 hours for one goddamn mob with no guarantee of rewards. No video game should ever make you do this

[Tyrath]

You: "Just a little bit frustrated at this time it's taking to complete. unless we're doing something wrong."
GM: "After going though this batter you should be able to revise your strategy."
=> read: you are probably doing something wrong since the GM advices you to revise your strategy.

GM: "I do have to inform you that as it stands, the game is working as intended."
You: "It was planned for this monster to take 12+ hours to kill ?"
GM doesn't answer this...
=> read: no, it's not supposed to take so long with the right strategy

lol no.

Have you ever talked to a GM in game before? Usually when they don't answer a question that questions SE's sanity it usually means what we assumed is right, not the other way around. The revise your strategy is the bullshit they'll throw at you if you wipe to anything, including Bubbly Bernie.

[Oulanbator]

However, according to info on page one of this thread and the end of the other one it was split from, Jackyl's LS did Salvage > Beseiged full categories, then Medusa, and then started the Generals before they called it a night. So what strikes me as odd is first off why the ToAU Beastmen Kings category was swapped with the Generals category, and also why they only saw Medusa out of the 3 from that set.

Well, maybe they did something to move to the next group.
Something they didn't notice.



Also, have anyone tried to kill all lamps at once ( Ying & Yang style) or to get rid of lamps in a limited time ( gears style) ?
( sorry to ask this, seems obvious someone already tried this, but I don't want to read 23 pages a 1am >.>; )

[Aurara]

you are aware that the lamps have 25k HP each right? You would need each blm to do 35 nukes(or 5740 MP each, barring conserve MP)or so just to try that, and tbh i don't see that happening at all.(5740 came from doing Bliz4 but i'm barring the use of -gas for now)

[Drex]

Not to mention the TP moves that you would eat gathering them up, even with them all at 1%...

[Hashmalum]

You: "Just a little bit frustrated at this time it's taking to complete. unless we're doing something wrong."
GM: "After going though this batter you should be able to revise your strategy."
=> read: you are probably doing something wrong since the GM advices you to revise your strategy.

GM: "I do have to inform you that as it stands, the game is working as intended."
You: "It was planned for this monster to take 12+ hours to kill ?"
GM doesn't answer this...
=> read: no, it's not supposed to take so long with the right strategy

The GMs are just customer service reps with funky red armor. They do not know how every monster in the game is supposed to be defeated, and many of them know very little about how the game is supposed to be played at all. "The game is working as intended" is part of their standard GM script, or guidelines, or whatever they have; it's something that's true 95% of time and shuts up most complaining players. Of course this means that when things are not, in fact, working as intended, the GM will say this anyway--ATNM test, NMs in sky being broken after update, etc., etc. So basically what the GM said here means nothing at all.

[Oulanbator]

you are aware that the lamps have 25k HP each right? You would need each blm to do 35 nukes(or 5740 MP each, barring conserve MP)or so just to try that, and tbh i don't see that happening at all.(5740 came from doing Bliz4 but i'm barring the use of -gas for now)

I wasn't aware of this.
However, it is still possible to take all lamps to 3% with melees etc then to aga them all >.>

[Zoot]

@ Suiram, that is strange, and I noticed that too. For us they came in exact sets, why Medusa by herself and then the generals?

Also to note, every one of these forms, and especially the generals, went shit crazy and got access to their special/most damaging move and started spamming it @35-25%.

We're not going to try this again for awhile, more than likely ever. I think I broke about the same time as lhexh and ruke and syl and hank, but I know many people in our LS, and especially the apps that were present were ready to quit much earlier and sticking it out because of the determination they felt from their ls. Nearly everyone is sick today, and our sleep schedules are completely fucked. I don't think we have the heart to put them through that again.

The people expressing their sentiment are relating to us and Jackyl and Richardd's LS, and I appreciate it....it was a frustrating fight for us all I'm sure, as well as expressing their own disappointment that the mob design is flawed. And yes it is flawed, beatable I'm sure, eventually, and yet flawed. If there is a trick to doing this, it should not be so obscure that it takes so long and makes people physically ill to find out. I know that there are many people who are hopeful that they can beat this in a different way, and I agree with that because a twenty hour fight is insane. However I do not have it in me to hope anymore, at least for the time being. I don't even have the motivation to log into the game right now. It's that kind of disenheartening that is causing people to feel so irate about this. I believe that it is justified.

[Starless]

I never said there aren't 20 jobs. But there aren't 20 alliance spots

...Touche.

[Parzival]

How many times has it been fought now? And some forms have popped and some forms have not and no one is really sure why?

Maybe there's a little more to it before deciding it's a broken mob? Maybe?

[Virtuous Saint]

And I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think anyone cares at this point, because we've all realized that SE is full of shit and this is another broken HNM!

You don't seem to understand that regardless of how the battle is fought, we were given absolutely no information about how to even go about this fight. If there truly is a way to make this fight easier, then SE should have at least given us a hint by now. But no, they have kept mum, and we resent them for it. It's the same with AV.

SE fails at customer service just like the fail at programing and design. You can bold/darkred/size all you want, but it doesn't change these facts. Until you actually do this fight, sit down and shut up. No one wants to hear speculation at this point. We want a fucking fix.

Dictionary.com, type in 'broken' and read.

[miokomioko]

I miss ATNM Test.

[Max™]

Well, that sucks harder than I expected...

I did kind of expect something along these lines when killing lamps > warden repeatedly, though.

I'd imagine you could say that trying to kill the warden without killing the lamps might actually be the easier idea to attempt now... not that anyone is likely to want to try this thing again for a good long time.

[Tarage]

Dictionary.com, type in 'broken' and read.

Or you could die in a fire. I now know why you have that title.

And by the way Oulanbator, since you are so ready to test your half baked theories using other people's time, money, and experience, you can join him in said fire.

Honestly people, stop being retarded. The HNM is either not working as intended, or it's intentions are horribly wrong. Either way it's broken. Trying to justify it, or throw up harebrained schemes is NOT helpful in the least. I really do hope a mod comes in here with some good 'ol cleansing fire.

[Tyrath]

I wasn't aware of this.
However, it is still possible to take all lamps to 3% with melees etc then to aga them all >.>

This is when I start ignoring you.

[siknoz]

That's rough....sorry to hear about your loss guys. Good effort into it though, guess it'll be 2 years till we get some vague hint that points us nowhere.