Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[Sylphet]

Max you're not alone lol

I remember when AV first came out and we were trying to figure out "tricks" to AV, several of us came up with these really detailed strategies based on the seven cardinal + theological virtues vs the seven deadly sins etc - none of which actually panned out.. but one thing I realized a while later was this:

SE fails at Western mythology.

I figured that they would have some sort of system that was analogous to Eastern mythology and the sky gods where the mythology could provide hints as to tricks to make things easier but alas, no. Either that or it's something we haven't figured out yet.

Killing NMs like AV and PW is like watching the end of Evangelion.. you're not sure if it's absolutely brilliant and you just don't get it or if it's just a load of self-indulgent crap they put out because they couldn't think of anything better.

[travOtaku]

I'm going to bet that PW is the NM equivalent to the Nyzul Relic requirements. They probably didn't want people to completely finish their new system during the course of one patch session. Waiting until another patch will allow them time to supplement it, add to it, modify it and then finalize it.

I mean, 50,000 alexandrites is out of this world insane, but it is still possible under the current system. And they've already made an announcement saying that they are going to change something that seems exorbitant.

PW's pop items are already as rare as can be, so SE has already set a precedent that PW should be rare and difficult. They probably just made him this batshit hard to ensure that he couldn't be farmed and have their entire new ZNM system completely conquered before the next patch.

(Also: Who in their right minds would play a game until they were physically distressed enough to vomit? Is your health really worth an increased parser rating of ~2%?)

[Suiram]

I get what you mean, but what further evidence is needed? One linkshell tried a large set of different titles and experienced the same thing as two other linkshells that didn't try titles. I don't expect people to fully accept it, but it is illogical to not at least recognize what is more likely here.

It isn't quite irrefutable proof, but it is much more than what supports the former, which is only a wild guess. Not to mention the countless complications in the fact that titles don't exist to explain all of the repops, as our attempt has also brought to evidence.

I rather agree with the person you quoted. It's well within a person's or their LS's rights not to share information should they choose not to, but if that was their choice then it ought to be treated as though it never occurred for the purposes of public discourse. Although it likely doesn't matter with something as simple as "we changed titles, nothing happened," having information like that not only tested by one person or group, but the results (or lackthereof) analyzed only by them and then supplied second-hand does not do much to ease the questions and curiosities of others.

[Thufir]

A question I would like to see asked to SE at a the next Q+A session:
"Regarding the Zeni Notorious Monster system: A linkshell recently fought Pandamonium Warden for over 18 hours to the point where players were becoming physically ill, vomiting and passing out. Do you think this is a reasonable amount of effort put in to kill a single monster in FFXI or should they have gone for longer? Is it your intention to actually kill your paying customers or just drive them away from your game?"

[Gwynplaine]

In FF8 Pandemonium was a guardian force that would appear and damage enemies by inhaling them and spitting them out. Obviously the mob is a reference to this, so my bet is the strategy is to realize Pandemonium sucks then blows.

[Gere]

A question I would like to see asked to SE at a the next Q+A session:
"Regarding the Zeni Notorious Monster system: A linkshell recently fought Pandamonium Warden for over 18 hours to the point where players were becoming physically ill, vomiting and passing out. Do you think this is a reasonable amount of effort put in to kill a single monster in FFXI or should they have gone for longer? Is it your intention to actually kill your paying customers or just drive them away from your game?"

Seconded, make sure to mention "physically ill".

pan·de·mo·ni·um /ˌpændəˈmoʊniəm/ Pronunciation Key - [pan-duh-moh-nee-uhm]
–noun
1. wild uproar or unrestrained disorder; tumult or chaos.
2. a place or scene of riotous uproar or utter chaos.
3. (often initial capital letter) the abode of all the demons.
4. hell.

Trying to kill all of the lamps and all of the forms is trying to bring order to a chaotic situation.

I wouldn't be surprised if after you killed that last warden form, it repopped as a chariot again, honestly.

I'm just a wacko with no experience of the fight though, disregard my pointing out that leaving all of the lamps alive would be chaotic, pandemonium, and killing the warden might be the key to get out...

It doesn't make any sense at all, clearly. T.T

The literal translation of pandemonium is "every/all demon(s)", the others you listed are from colloquial speech. He changes into every "demon" in TOAU, I really don't think that there's any more to it than that.

[Jackyl]

For the record: We did pop PW twice - and no, it does not "continue" from the last depop form. As for how the 2nd fight went, don't ask.

[Mojo]

I can't really add much to this thread, although I'd like to thank BtL, Rukenshin and all of the other linkshells and individuals that previously attempted Pandemonium Warden. You've provided quite a bit of insight to the community. It's depressing to witness such a revolting display of Square-Enix's concept on acceptable end-game content and their playerbase expectations. You would hope that they would have learned from Absolute Virtue, but it appears not.

What's possibly even more depressing are the posters 'encouraging' others to try harder and not give up. I'm somewhat reluctant to say it, but you're full of shit. This is a video game for fucks sake. It should be enjoyable and engaging enough to be played when you have the time. It shouldn't require the better part of a linkshell to fight a single boss for an entire day in order to be successful. Even if there is some trick to make the fight shorter, which given Sage Sundi's recent comment on Absolute Virtue I highly doubt there is, Square-Enix is nothing short of delusional for expecting the playerbase to have to figure out whatever the fuck it is. If you're so bent on this, go farm a popset or gtfo.

[Ace-o-fire]

maybe its like that one area in ff9 where the lower the weapon was the higher dmg it did.

[shukuffxi]

I think it's gonna be humorous that when a question about PW does get asked to SE, by an NA interviewer, the answer will be along the lines of the utter bullshit we've received for AV so far.

It would be really awesome if all the fan sites that DO have access, send a single e-mail to SE asking the exact same question, something along the lines of "What were you thinking when you introduced Pandemonium Warden?", and pray for a response >_>

[Zirk]

This is Thrunce posting on vann's account cause I dont feel like making my own..

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8...0052058gt5.jpg

Just my addition to the astral flow rape we encountered. I guess hank is on the other side of that cluster fuck of avatars.

edit: Oh yeah in the text, Jinirin earlier said "If I was SE i would let it resummon lamps" ...

[Waef]

In FF8 Pandemonium was a guardian force that would appear and damage enemies by inhaling them and spitting them out. Obviously the mob is a reference to this, so my bet is the strategy is to realize Pandemonium sucks then blows.

Actually, that was the first thing I thought of when I heard of Pandemonium, so I looked it up. I think the GFs name is Pandemona or something, but it wasn't Pandemonium. The name was very close though.

[BlueMage]

If people are so mad about the whole PW situation, and are further infuriated by the generic GM responses, why don't we all set a date to mass call GMs at the same time, from everyone on every server and have each person who calls them feed them a predetermined response complaining about whatever. Perhaps if they have to endure countless hours of hearing the exact same crap over and over, they will get sick and tired of it, and complain to their bosses about it which will hopefully get something done.

[blackmail]

Max you're not alone lol

I remember when AV first came out and we were trying to figure out "tricks" to AV, several of us came up with these really detailed strategies based on the seven cardinal + theological virtues vs the seven deadly sins etc - none of which actually panned out.. but one thing I realized a while later was this:

SE fails at Western mythology.

I figured that they would have some sort of system that was analogous to Eastern mythology and the sky gods where the mythology could provide hints as to tricks to make things easier but alas, no. Either that or it's something we haven't figured out yet.

Killing NMs like AV and PW is like watching the end of Evangelion.. you're not sure if it's absolutely brilliant and you just don't get it or if it's just a load of self-indulgent crap they put out because they couldn't think of anything better.

I'm afraid I feel uncomfortable about this statement. Let me try to see if we agree about one aspect of mythology in FFXI.
I think that SE does a nice job of using mythology and legend to beef the story part of the game. In the incredibly "big picture," they incorporate aspects of many different myths and legends into the game but only to the extent that it makes up for their own lack of creativity. In application, however, they do nothing to try to tie anything into mythology. That is to say that the way you fight, kill, pop anything could never be inferred by an expert in said mythology.
Would you agree?

[bercus]

Made a post in FFXI-Interview Section if you think we should do it.

[Acturus]

I'm going to bet that PW is the NM equivalent to the Nyzul Relic requirements. They probably didn't want people to completely finish their new system during the course of one patch session. Waiting until another patch will allow them time to supplement it, add to it, modify it and then finalize it.

I mean, 50,000 alexandrites is out of this world insane, but it is still possible under the current system. And they've already made an announcement saying that they are going to change something that seems exorbitant.

PW's pop items are already as rare as can be, so SE has already set a precedent that PW should be rare and difficult. They probably just made him this batshit hard to ensure that he couldn't be farmed and have their entire new ZNM system completely conquered before the next patch.

I'm inclined to agree with this train of thought. I wager they want to give us all "enough time" to explore the ZNM system fully before "finishing" it.

SE is king of the cockblock, but knowing them, they'll make a hueg deal about the Pullus Torque's latent effect, release moar news about Campaign NPC histories, and ninja fix PW while the rest of us shake our heads in disgust.

[Stromgarde]

Lots and lots of Dvergars and avatars

Spoiler: show

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8...0052058gt5.jpg

Wow... just wow. Ruke, thanks for you and your LS putting up with 18 hours of bullshit, I'm sincerely sorry you came away with nothing for all of that. "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" indeed.

[Xanthe]

Thanks for your efforts, information, and warnings, Ruke. I agree that it's probably best to stockpile any PW pops until we get some sort of response from SE (since they're so plentiful, right?). Regarding the lemming haters, I think the ZNM system is still great with a lot of good rewards, it's only PW that seems to be an impossible hurdle at the moment.

[Shinsei]

I've mostly just been reading posts here from time to time.

Hats off to BTL and others that put out so many hours spent fighting this NM, I don't think I could ever stomach even 6 hours straight on just one monster for any game, that is just absurd.....18 hours damn....

No monster in ANY video game should even be able to survive 10hours of combat even. SE really has some insane expectations from its playerbase, seriously.

In all honesty, I do think it is fully intended to go through all the NMs that Pandemonium has access to, but I just can't agree with their current set HP that they each have including the lamps. I really think they should be lowered at least (to what extent idk) and keep the current state of pandy.

A 4 hour fight (much as that sounds long as well) would be more realistic so atleast the item drops would still be in the rarity cause I wouldn't be too off in saying the drops from pandy won't even be 100% anyways.

4 hour~ish fight would almost be the same as farming Dynamis-Xarcabard pretty much.

Hopefully SE really does something about it, I don't want them to make the actual "difficulty" lowered, just the HP of all the mobs etc lowered to a degree to reduce the fight into a 4-5hours fiasco. No game should ever have a boss that takes the entire day to kill, that's insane.

[Robyn]

I just spoke with Goodspeed of Leviathan. He said that his LS has not killed Pandemonium Warden, and he does not have a Hachiryu Haramaki lol.