Pandemonium Warden - The aftermath theories.

[Jackyl]

Jackyl Richardd or anyone from SA: Did PW use any moves through all its forms? Like say Hellsnap in every form etc?

When PW turned into Dvergr, he used Hellsnap+ every time I believe. *edit* yeah what BO said. I thought you were asking if he uses hellsnap every time he transforms back into Dvergr.

[Guitarman]

Alright just trying to see what i'm in for if my ls ever gets that far.

Did the dregvr form have its own HP before it turned into different forms? Maybe dregvr you have a few moments to damage its "real" hp before it turns into a random form. Kill that form get a few more seconds to damage dregvr form again etc? Anything like that goin on? I could'nt really tell from the pictures.

[Therin]

Explain to me how the wall of justice, in any way, harmed the fighting of AV. The draw in from pande is what makes the fight difficult, and they used the draw in to their advantage to make the fight easier. The wall was just used to make the fight easier, it never "Got in the way" of anything. Theres a big difference.

Erm, I was agreeing with you and referring to the guy that you quoted. This single-quoting nonsense is annoying. I figured the "seriously" would have keyed it in that I was agreeing with you. Sorry. ;P

I'll edit my post.

[Theenabler]

Read the thread lol, they already said they damaged it in dvergr and then when it repopped again it was back at 100%

Edit: My bad Therin ;p

[Spira]

hmm
the title theory seems rather plausible at the moment seeing as how almost every mob he transforms into comes with a title..
it might seem to follow in the whole 'tour of aht urhgan' vein that all the ToA content from this most recent patch seems to emphasize on...

As long as there are no repeats, I could imagine that in order to kill him without titles, you'd have to go thru every single transformation...
but if you had the titles in, then you could cut down the entire process to maybe just 1-2 transformations or even none at all..

In this sense, I think SE just wants us to 'solve' him, and then he'd be relative cake.. Same could be said with AV, but the conditions for him might have been too steep.
If it's getting titles on the other hand.. seems fairly simple...
only issue is probably figuring out which titles correspond to some of the NMs

[Charismatic]

/sigh. The 'point' he is trying to make is not a valid point. I don't think my friends have made it very clear, so let me try it again. The draw-in move of PW makes this fight HARDER. We had to 'deal' with draw-in by letting it happen; it wasn't used to make the fight easier. If PW did NOT have draw-in, this fight would be even easier.

Now, go pop PW and get some more info please. Less arguing, more killing.

That's why I said in my post that I don't agree with him.
See, this is why people could not make the proper comparisons, they don't read.

[Kaslo]

hmm
the title theory seems rather plausible at the moment seeing as how almost every mob he transforms into comes with a title..
it might seem to follow in the whole 'tour of aht urhgan' vein that all the ToA content from this most recent patch seems to emphasize on...

As long as there are no repeats, I could imagine that in order to kill him without titles, you'd have to go thru every single transformation...
but if you had the titles in, then you could cut down the entire process to maybe just 1-2 transformations or even none at all..

In this sense, I think SE just wants us to 'solve' him, and then he'd be relative cake.. Same could be said with AV, but the conditions for him might have been too steep.
If it's getting titles on the other hand.. seems fairly simple...
only issue is probably figuring out which titles correspond to some of the NMs

Easiest way to test is to start with the 1st Chariot title, if he moves to next then win, not to hard to test imo.

[Dankster]

We had ppl try and attack and throw random nukes when he would come back. One time I remember hitting with a thunder 3 and he went to 99% and then changed. The window you have to make an action is very short and depending on everyones position most ppl will be stunned. It does seem a bit odd that he appears each time, almost like he is giving you a shot to do "something" what that is who knows. We tried attacking nuking and taking pictures in that 10-15sec window nothing changed. When he repopped later he was @ 100% again not @99%. It is hard to guess what your supposed to do. Half of me thinks you can get him to stay that way because a 10hr+ fight cannot be what was intended, but at the same time there were no repeats in the form he took so they meant for him to take these forms. Just gonna have to wait till someone finishes the marathon i guess.

[Spira]

Easiest way to test is to start with the 1st Chariot title, if he moves to next then win, not to hard to test imo.

better yet.. get all 4 chariot titles in party, and hope it moves on straight away to whatever form it is that was mentioned a few pages back..

if that works, the next test should probably be to kick out the 4 chariot title holders from the party just before the current form dies, to see if theres an order in which he transforms that he follows or he just checks thru a list..

what i mean..

A) Specific order, once he passes a part of the order, he wont transform into those that have passed.

skips chariots > next form (kick out the people with chariot title from ally) -> next form (is not a chariot)

B) Runs down a list of stuff he has yet to transform into / can transform into as long as no one has the title

skips chariots > next form (kick out the people with chariot title from ally ) -> next form is a chariot

[Kaylia]

Like I mentioned a few page ago when I posted this idea, they added mob last update that are affected by your title. A few months ago, I would have said it was a big stretch, but it doesnt seem impossible right now.

Theres another hidden reward to the quest of Babban, and that is (with the title you get from it for sure, haven't tested without title yet), whenever you walk to past areas, and have lycopodiums of any level following you, including tinys, wait for about 30 seconds. After a mandy has been following you for that long, it will spin and release flower petals, granting you a 3 hp a tic regen effect, that lasts for a fairly long time. Each mandy does it individually based on when they followed you, so gather a ton and the air will be filled with flower petals lol.

Spoiler: show

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/attac...0&d=1214539243

For the fight, it could just scan anyone in alliance for title on Dvergr form, but maybe you need to grab hate or something.

Hopefully, we will be able to complete our PW pop soon and test a few things. I'm praying SE arent stupid enough to make this fight a 10 hours marathon...

[ByeByeTasai]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you have to go through all of these forms every time to complete the fight. The title theory would be nice, but I wouldn't count on it at all. my guess would be that you have to defeat him in the 4 chariot forms, the beast lords, the generals, and possibly Odin. And of course there is still the chance of the 3 Beasts coming into play. But the Acrolith form is what is really racking my brain, because it just doesnt seem to fit with the rest of what SA has seen so far.

Perhaps there is a way to control his form changes, and possibly limit this to certain forms needed to beat him. I hate to bring in a wild theory, but maybe the lamps are used to signal which form he changes to as well.

Pandemonium = the capital of Hell were all demons are held
Warden = overseer of a prison or jail.
Lamp = a way to signal orders from one vessel to the next? sure it's a little far-fetched, but it sounds better to me then Ebon Panel and Jailer Weapon theories.

edit: Also I assume that SA held back a little to play it semi-safe this fight. My question for them would be how long did it take to take down each form that you did fight, and how fast do you think you could've taken down each form now that you've had some experience with it?

[Wolfknight]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you have to go through all of these forms every time to complete the fight. The title theory would be nice, but I wouldn't count on it at all. my guess would be that you have to defeat him in the 4 chariot forms, the beast lords, the generals, and possibly Odin. And of course there is still the chance of the 3 Beasts coming into play. But the Acrolith form is what is really racking my brain, because it just doesnt seem to fit with the rest of what SA has seen so far.

why he turned into the 2 other besieged only mobs troll destroyer and mamool ja wiver rider.

[ByeByeTasai]

Well, I'm just thinking along the lines of the Nyzul Relic quests. Every form that he changed to seems to fit along side of these except for the 3 besieged only mobs and the generals, once again found in besieged. But I don't see this mob being tied to besieged because you don't fight Dvergrs in Besieged. I suppose it's still way to early to directly tie this to any one part of ToAU, and as said before this monster could be just a reflection of the entire expansion pack. But I seriously doubt that SE would make a monster that will take 10 hrs to fight, after all of the hoopla with JoL/AV fight. Sure dynamis can take 4 hrs to complete, but that is a scheduled battlefield with a set time limit. And even Dynamis had many complaints about the time i took to complete it, we haven't seen any 4 hr battlefield events since RoZ Dynamis.

[Dankster]

As we got our strategy refined the time it took to clear a wave did get faster, especially in the chariot mode, 1st was an hour ending at 30-40 mins by the 4th wave. You still have to figure average nukes ES AMII did around 800dmg, melee did par dmg but need heavy support on mobs that have 25k hp. That comes out to 250 unresisted nukes for 800dmg to clear out a full wave of helpers. Then you still have the boss. The chariots seemed to have double? the HP as the salvage chariots and medusa/general just took shit dmg all around taking 20-30mins on them alone. We did SE/Kraken medusa a little bit dropping her a good 11% in a shot so that is a way to speed it up a little i guess. Another problem with speeding things up is thier hate, its fucked up. The helpers will still chase the kiter most of the time, a big spike dmg will peel for a second or 2 enough to get it to take a swing at someone but this was rare. We often didnt get to cast as much as we would have liked to and began to stagger stuns on passes to get more nukes off. Next time through we are gonna just bring more ppl and work on multiple mobs or just cfh and gang bang them, but I hate cfh thats how retards ruin 10hrs of work so I would rather not.

Oh ya, the general did a 3-way light SC solo on jack >.>, pretty funny shit.

[Kaylia]

CFH zerg is a good idea actually. Considering the mechanics of this game, PW would most likely repop red/yellow (cfh aern for example always come back yellow after reraise). In the event it wouldnt repop yellow/red, you could always have ppl wipe/logout and reclaim it after.

I'm not sure if it have alliance move or not, but it might be possible to save some damage that way, having multiple smaller party, instead of a big one.

[Jackyl]

Well, Dank meant CFH'ing the lamps, not the warden himself. No real incentive to CFH the warden.

[Kaylia]

Well, Dank meant CFH'ing the lamps, not the warden himself. No real incentive to CFH the warden.

Yeah, I know he was talking about the lamp, but I think it could be useful to kill Warden faster assuming you have more than 18 people. 36 people and cfh'd warden would die pretty fast.

[Shinsei]

CFH'ing Warden would also fit in with the mobs name

1 definition of Pandemonium is the capital hell for demons from some old ass novel?

But another definition is like absolute chaos lol.

If it repops red or w/e then it will be fine.

Because if it was really meant to go through all his transformations, you may as well just keep it CFH'ed until you get to the last form, ofcourse only if he repops red after each death.

[ByeByeTasai]

I wouldn't risk it, CFH on boss's summons has been known to glitch the mobs from time to time. I remember seeing a screenshot of Jailer of Love summoning 3 sharks with one still alive that was CFH'd on. But I believe it was a glitch, I haven't personally seen this happen but I have seen sharks CFH'd on with no issue. So take caution and have a backup plan in case it causes a severe glitch. I want to mess with this mob so bad but sadly we are sitting at tiers 2-3 still because my LS leader feels that Sea drops are more worth the time...

edit: and for those suggesting to CFH on the Warden himself, JoP is a prime example of a mob that dissapears from time to time, not recharged or in another form but he does dissapear from widescan and radar when this happens(even if tracked). And if you choose to CFH on the first JoP he dissapears and comes back CFH'd. It's probably not the same game mechanics at all, but there is that chance and getting to tier 5 takes way too long for anyone to risk the pop on a historical based hunch(and I really don't understand were you are seeing that significance Shinsei, so /slap)

[Kaylia]

Well, I doubt cfh was in SE's mind, but I'm sure we could use it to our advantage to speed up the fight.

Off topic kinda, but in the next BG interview, it could be interesting to ask SE how long it's suposed to take to kill AV and Pandemonium with a "18 men" alliance. They dont want to tell us anything concerning strategy, but knowing how long those fight are suposed to last could give us an indication about our methods. If they answer 10h...fuck those NM. But if they says it can be done under 1h, we would need to rethink our method