Is it legal to breastfeed in public?

[Sunrider]

Childhood and mother issues abound in this thread.

If a mom is at a mall and she forgets a towel, why isn't she just buying a towel? If a mom is at a mall and she forgets a towel, why isn't she going into a dark corner and facing the wall? If a mom is at the mall and she forgets a towel, why isn't she going back into her car to get another one she prepared? Or outside in general?

If a mom is at the mall and she forgets a towel, why can't you just look away?

[BRP]

Childhood and mother issues abound in this thread.

I know you are really excited about taking Pscyhe 101 and want to quote Freud, but please try to contribute to the thread.

EDIT:

If a mom is at the mall and she forgets a towel, why can't you just look away?

Blaming the victim, cool strategy bro.

[Sunrider]

No, not a psyche student, it's just funny to think of all the fun a student of Freud work would have with this thread.

And I'm sorry you have to be so inconvenienced as force your eyes in another direction, but how is that different than a mother being burdened with keeping a blanket/towel in her dayminder?

Anyhow, I think it's funny you label yourself a victim. You make it sound as if your eyes were doused with lithium the moment you looked at a pair of exposed breasts.

[Kurp]

Jesus, she's at a mall. There's shops all over where she could buy a blanket, a towel, a clearance rack t-shirt, etc. If she refuses to do that she can walk to the front desk and tell them she needs to breast feed, but forgot a blanket. I'm sure they could come up with something.

[Sunrider]

Meanwhile, it costs you absolutely nothing to move your eyes just a few degrees in another direction.

[Xavier]

It also implies that there is something so wrong with breastfeeding that society must be shielded from it, which I don't believe is true, and the law would generally agree with me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ube/Maggie.jpg

Call the police, Maggie Gyllenhaal isn't fit to be a mother. Oh lord, how terribly awful that our society has to tolerate such gross gestures of sexuality.

And no offense, but for a group of people that regularly degrades scantly clad or nude women as either duck or fuckable, I'm shocked that breastfeeding somehow alerts the morality meter.

[Stolinnnnnn]

I can't believe some of the replies to this thread. Babies eat by sucking on tits, thats life. You see worse shit on magazine covers standing in line in the grocery store. grow up

[BRP]

or a group of people that regularly degrades scantly clad or nude women as either duck or fuckable

I'm not in that group and I'm pretty sure you shouldn't bring that up. Kind of hurts your argument to reach like that.

which I don't believe is true, and the law would generally agree with me.

...huh?

You are quoting the law? The same laws that sometimes vary between states? The same law we are discussing whether should exist or not?

Let's not do that. Let's provide our own reasoning.

And assuming Maggie Gyllenhaal isn't at her own or a friend's personal home of residence then she is being a lazy, rude bitch. Was posting a celebrity suppose to make me reconsider my opinion? (Notice how I didn't say unfit parent, please remember what I'm trying to argue)

Meanwhile, it costs you absolutely nothing to move your eyes just a few degrees in another direction.

Are you for real? It's not my responsibility to clothe other people's breasts or send a scout ahead just in case someone is wearing or doing something offensive. Usually when I go to the mall, I don't hire scouts, so maybe it's my fault. Since you know, the women isn't committing the action. I am, because I looked. It's my fault I think it's wrong and offensive. How silly of me to look in front of me. I'm so selfish and ignorant. Man, it really is okay to blame the victim. (Get it now?)

EDIT:

I can't believe some of the replies to this thread. Babies eat by sucking on tits, thats life. You see worse shit on magazine covers standing in line in the grocery store. grow up

Like what?

EDIT 2:

So does that mean it's perfectly fine to post breast feeding in a worksafe thread? If not, the thread will need to be marked.

[Sunrider]

Are you for real? It's not my responsibility to clothe other people's breasts or send a scout ahead just in case someone is wearing or doing something offensive. Usually when I go to the mall, I don't hire scouts, so maybe it's my fault. Since you know, the women isn't committing the action.

Are you for real?

No, it's not your responsibility to scout ahead or clothe someone doing something "offensive," but it is your responsibility to take evasive/precautionary measures when you if you encounter something you don't like. In this case, it's as simple as looking the other way. Not even 180 degrees in the other direction. Just a little like this <.< or a little like this >.>...

I mean, if you went out to a bar to meet women, and found you'd mistakenly gone to a gay bar, you wouldn't fuss and fight with the bar's owners and patrons just because it doesn't have any women for you to meet. You simply go somewhere else.

I am, because I looked. It's my fault I think it's wrong and offensive. How silly of me to look in front of me. I'm so selfish and ignorant. Man, it really is okay to blame the victim. (Get it now?)

No one held a gun to your head. You haven't professed to have any motor-function-impairing illnesses that keep your eyes or head fixed in the direction of the mammaries. And yeah, it is kind of selfish. Pass a law prohibiting public breastfeeding because of the the minority of women that lack discretion in breastfeeding--no--because YOU, of all people, YOU, feel a topless woman in a public venue is somehow indecent. That breastfeeding--a natural biological mechanic of the child-rearing process--bears scrutiny and censorship.

Yes, selfish, and more than a little ignorant.

You don't classify as victim here. You fall under the lyncher, ready to string up the perpetrator of a law you feel should be in place.

[Xavier]

I'm not in that group and I'm pretty sure you shouldn't bring that up. Kind of hurts your argument to reach like that.

Really, I can't bring up the hypocrisy of some people?

You are quoting the law? The same laws that sometimes vary between states? The same law we are discussing whether should exist or not?

Let's not do that. Let's provide our own reasoning.

It's not my responsibility to clothe other people's breasts or send a scout ahead just in case someone is wearing or doing something offensive. Usually when I go to the mall, I don't hire scouts, so maybe it's my fault. Since you know, the women isn't committing the action. I am, because I looked. It's my fault I think it's wrong and offensive. How silly of me to look in front of me. I'm so selfish and ignorant. Man, it really is okay to blame the victim. (Get it now?)

You're only the victim if a crime has been committed, and a crime can only be committed when an actual law is broken, not when something offends you. Furthermore, by suggesting that you are the victim, you're saying that your rights are more important than that of the mother and child, which isn't true in the least. For you, its a minor inconvenience and doesn't show you anything you haven't already seen before. For the woman and child, it provides numerous health benefits as well as feeds the baby. Forcing the woman to feel obligated to hide herself from society could result in unnecessary consequences for both mother and child, whereas asking you to turn your head results in you having lost 2 seconds of your life. Do the math.

- "Thirty-nine states, the District of Columbia and the Virgin Islands have laws with language specifically allowing women to breastfeed in any public or private location (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont and Wyoming)."

- "Twenty-five states and the Virgin Islands exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming)."

I'm citing the law because the law almost overwhelming says that breastfeeding is legal and protected.

And assuming Maggie Gyllenhaal isn't at her own or a friend's personal home of residence then she is being a lazy, rude bitch. Was posting a celebrity suppose to make me reconsider my opinion? (Notice how I didn't say unfit parent, please remember what I'm trying to argue)

It just happened to be an actress because it was the first picture I found.

Why is she a lazy, rude bitch? Because you personally have a problem with breastfeeding? That makes her a lazy, rude bitch? Get over yourself, that is a ridiculous thing to call someone for doing this.

Ham it up as the "victim" some more please. Maybe if your eyes are filled with tears often enough you won't even have to worry about seeing any women breastfeeding.

[BRP]

"Blame the Victim" is a phrase, stop taking it literally. I thought I indicated that in my last post, but whatever. Also victim isn't only restricted to law, so that's already incorrect.

Really, I can't bring up the hypocrisy of some people?

It's not related though. You are basically saying "But you guys judge girls in this other thread." I don't know what you are trying to achieve(people are sexist? people are not afraid of boobs or actually are perverts?), but that's a fallacy. So you shouldn't do it unless you are cool with having a poor argument.

If you wanted to point hypocrisy without being unrelated, it would be something like "but guys get to be topless." I can argue against that if you like.

I'm citing the law because the law almost overwhelming says that breastfeeding is legal and protected.

Okay, but we aren't arguing if breastfeeding is legal or protected. That can be proved with facts. We are trying to support our opinions in a concise manner and they are now in conflict because the very nature of the issue. So the law itself means nothing if I'm saying it's wrong. Tell me why the law exists and why it should stay for your opinion. I'll tell you why it should stay for mine.

Why is she a lazy, rude bitch? Because you personally have a problem with breastfeeding? That makes her a lazy, rude bitch? Get over yourself, that is a ridiculous thing to call someone for doing this.

First off, it's important to note that it's only the case if she's not at a private place. I can't tell personally, maybe you could if the picture's source tells you anything. But let's assume for the sake of argument she is not, therefor against my beliefs.

I would call anyone naked because they are too lazy to find a proper method to whatever they are doing and rude(first part) and lazy(second part). I'd call them a bitch because they are doing this despite knowing people could be offended. Harsh? Maybe, but who gives a damn, let's focus on why I'm calling her that.

Yeah, so it's my problem, not mine alone, but it is certainly what I think. That doesn't make it okay that it's my problem, not hers. I don't understand where you are going with this.

Now let's go back to the woman in the OP since I don't know where exactly the celebrity is at. She is not taking obvious and easy steps to avoid conflict(repeated many times by now, discreetness by towel or location or both), it usually against the law is display your breast, and I personally would find it offensive. Why is she right and I'm wrong? Can you explain that? If you say "she needs to feed the child", that does not cut it. You have explain why she is right to ignore the steps to make everyone happy.


Now, this whole debate is getting out of hand, let's focus on what needs to be discussed. Here is how I see it:

1. It is illegal to show your bare breasts. For the sake of arguing it is "wrong" unless you decide to debate this too. (This would change arguments entirely)
2. Displaying your breast while breastfeeding can be avoided. Unless you decide to debate this, this is true.
3. The breast doesn't change in shape or form is always a breast, not whatever what occupies the chest. I don't think I even need to say this is correct.

So logically the only thing to debate is whether it suddenly becomes okay for that very same breast(s) to be exposed when there is a child feeding. Noticed I said exposed breast, not breastfeeding in general.

[KuaiEQ]

LEMME SEE DEM TITTIES

[EternityEnd]

What BRP is trying to say is: She's at a mall. There are many, many people passing her while she has her breasts whipped out that might-- MIGHT not want to see that. Could she have not been polite enough to cover herself up in some way, or failing that, go to a nearby bathroom where nobody will see her?

I'm sorry, but that is rude, in my opinion. It isn't as if she was forced to drop down right there, in the middle of a mall, and breastfeed her baby. As I previously stated, there are bathrooms every 5 steps in a mall. There is little excuse for someone with so many options available that might not make other people awkward to choose the one option that results in others being uncomfortable.

That's my take on the matter, at least.

[Ace-o-fire]

So are you going to back to the mall and camp her out with a camera?

[Sunrider]

"Blame the Victim" is a phrase, stop taking it literally.

Except, literally or not, you're not the victim. Unless purposefully entering or making no attempt to avoid a situation that displeases you makes you the victim. I think it just makes you a fool. And a masochist.

If you wanted to point hypocrisy without being unrelated, it would be something like "but guys get to be topless." I can argue against that if you like.

Go ahead, you tell us why the double-standard allowing guys to be topless in public is irrelevant to the discussion.

I would call anyone naked because they are too lazy to find a proper method to whatever they are doing and rude(first part) and lazy(second part). I'd call them a bitch because they are doing this despite knowing people could be offended. Harsh? Maybe, but who gives a damn, let's focus on why I'm calling her that.

Rude with respect to whom?

Lazy with respect to whom?

If everyone in her immediate area has no problem with it, then to whom is it rude? That guy thirty yards away that happens to catch sight of an exposed breast and gets all flustered by it?

Where is the laziness? There are no pre-defined guidelines stating exactly how a woman should go about breastfeeding her child, she does it how she sees fit.

If the people accompanying/surrounding her don't take exception, then it's not rude. If she's simply doing it as she knows how, it's not lazy. But you casting aspersions upon her for something that you and perhaps a handful of others think is inappropriate? That doesn't make her a bitch, but it makes you quite the asshole.

Yeah, so it's my problem, not mine alone, but it is certainly what I think. That doesn't make it okay that it's my problem, not hers. I don't understand where you are going with this.

Now let's go back to the woman in the OP since I don't know where exactly the celebrity is at. She is not taking obvious and easy steps to avoid conflict(repeated many times by now, discreetness by towel or location or both), it usually against the law is display your breast, and I personally would find it offensive. Why is she right and I'm wrong? Can you explain that? If you say "she needs to feed the child", that does not cut it. You have explain why she is right to ignore the steps to make everyone happy.

What steps to make everyone happy? Since when has there been an outline on how someone should publicly breastfeed?

Exposing your breast in public may be considered illegal, unless, of course, you have a child suckling from it, at which point it's exempt. Two breasts exposed and only one child? Well, I'd like to meet the cop prick enough to bust a breastfeeding mother because the second breast just happened to be laying the unattended. Second, one might easily argue her right to switch breasts on which the child suckles, in which case having both breasts exposed serves a purpose.

So, she is right because the law excludes her from wrongdoing, because he is suckling a child. This is also the same reason you were wrong.

Now, this whole debate is getting out of hand, let's focus on what needs to be discussed. Here is how I see it:

1. It is illegal to show your bare breasts. For the sake of arguing it is "wrong" unless you decide to debate this too. (This would change arguments entirely)

No argument here, since I thought Xavier pointed it out. It's not illegal.

- "Thirty-nine states, the District of Columbia and the Virgin Islands have laws with language specifically allowing women to breastfeed in any public or private location (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont and Wyoming)."

- "Twenty-five states and the Virgin Islands exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming)."

2. Displaying your breast while breastfeeding can be avoided. Unless you decide to debate this, this is true.

I'll concede this is true, but what is equally true is that YOU CAN AVOID LOOKING AT IT.

3. The breast doesn't change in shape or form is always a breast, not whatever what occupies the chest. I don't think I even need to say this is correct.

Also fact, but not the issue. The issue is the legality of what's done with the breast, which does a complete 180-degree turn when a child is suckling from it.

So logically the only thing to debate is whether it suddenly becomes okay for that very same breast(s) to be exposed when there is a child feeding. Noticed I said exposed breast, not breastfeeding in general.

If it's already been settled that breastfeeding is exempt from public indecency or outright allowed, then then personal views on the decency thereof are all that you can argue.

[BRP]

Sunrider I'm only going to be replying to Xaviar now, but I can say you did misread parts of my post:

1. Xaviar posted areas where exposing breast while breastfeeding is allowed, not where it is allowed for women to be topless.

2. I wasn't saying topless men argument is irrelevant. I was saying it was.

[Darus Grey]

Ever even stop to think why you think it's rude?

In a world-wide sense finding public nudity rude is a very American thing...it's why the rest of the western world considers us to be uptight prudes. They're not wrong.

[BRP]

That's what this topic needs, guartz.

[Turambar]

And you -have- been presented with sufficient evidence that the mother was at the mall in the middle of the day to pass the time? You're passing judgment based on nothing more than assumptions and prejudice.

Except that malls don't usually sell the sort of absolutely necessary items that would cause a person to rush out and forget things they normally carry with them (whether it's a baby blanket or their keys). Thus, it stands to reason that someone at the mall in the middle of the afternoon is there for a non-immediate purpose such as shopping for clothes, shoes, or CDs, or just hanging out.

Go ahead, you tell us why the double-standard allowing guys to be topless in public is irrelevant to the discussion.

Well, to be fair, guys aren't typically allowed to walk around shirtless in public "consumer facilities" (i.e. restaurants, movie theaters, stores, and yes malls).

[SchuldigGER]

Ever even stop to think why you think it's rude?

In a world-wide sense finding public nudity rude is a very American thing...it's why the rest of the western world considers us to be uptight prudes. They're not wrong.

^ this