Botters succesfully sued.

[Callisto]

Oh, I can't say for everyone, as I don't personally have to swap a lot of gear between jobs, but that doesn't sound useful to ME, since I'm used to consumables up top, gear by slot down the list, craftables/whatnot at the bottom, from habitually sorting items myself for so long.

Auto-sort was a huge win in my opinion, but I guess I could see situations where it would be annoying.

I think that's it, it's just that we're used to things being sorted 'normally'. I personally like it auto-sorted, I know exactly where to look for my crystals/mats, I know that hand gear will be after bodies where it belongs, and there's no confusion looking through my inventory for a specific piece. While some basics of my 3 jobs are the same, I still have to swap a shitload of gear, and to me it's easier just going down the line of a sorted inventory.

Edit: To clarify I play my main on console and my 2 mules on laptop. I use LL on the laptop, I've tried both ways, it's just that I prefer auto-sort.

[Stiker]

More often than not I look for the item sort as an auto-sort, except when I'm crafting and fishing, then I let LL keep things at the bottom. Basically, it just lacks another level of customization that would be useful that SE won't bother to do (although I can see why, I would assume it is far more work to do so though).

[AoshiZ]

Windower does not "run FFXI in its own memory space" like Warden was for Glider.

You sure about that? So Windower doesn't launch FFXI with a DLL hooked to it?

Regardless of whether you alter that actual memory or you just read FFXI's memory using API's, if you launch the application with your personal DLL hooked onto it, its your memory space.

Thats pretty much the same thing as glider except that glider sends commands to Wow. It pretty much Launches Wow... hooks on reads its memory as well and possible overwriting it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong since I don't know extensive amounts of Windowers code.

[Tomk]

I like the SE auto-sort/stack too. It only applies to your gobbiebag so the mogsafe, moglocker, and storage all stay the same. That way I can keep those divided by jobs for quicker changes and still auto-sort/stack into my bag for farming, crafting, and parties.

[Lordender]

I highly doubt SE is gonna pour any money into legal matters when they hardly even pour money into their own game as it is. SE just wants to suck money instead of putting it into their game which has been the case for a few years now.

[AoshiZ]

Just for Follow-up but... here's the section pertaining to how blizzard's motion for Summary Judgement states how the application memory space's ownership is discerned:

"In order to avoid easy detection and blocking of Glider by Blizzard’s anti-cheat technology, Glider users rely on Glider’s “launch pad” to initiate the start up and loading of WoW into RAM. Clearly, Glider users’ loading of WoW into RAM creates a copy for purposes of the Copyright Act."

And here's some information about what glider does with the actual WoW application from the FAQ on glider's website:

"Q: Does Glider modify my game files?
A: Definitely not. Glider does not use a UI mod or make any changes to the game, either on disk or in memory."

So Glider pretty much just lauches the same WoW application unmodified. How would you launch an unmodified application and still be able to control it or prevent detection? DLL hook.

[Shuemue]

Just a thought, but wouldn't SE have to prove they'd tried to implement a reasonable level of security in the first place? We certainly have no Warden equivalent.

[Khamsin]

Just a thought, but wouldn't SE have to prove they'd tried to implement a reasonable level of security in the first place? We certainly have no Warden equivalent.

Why?

It's still illegal to come into my home and take stuff, even if I leave the door wide open and I'm on vacation for two weeks with no dogs or alarms or texan neighbors watching out for me.

It's still illegal to pickpocket even if I have a loose $1000 bill hanging halfway out of my back pocket.

It's still illegal to fuck a 17-year-old even if she is completely sober, writhing on your bed naked, moaning for you to take her.

[Shuemue]

Windower doesn't steal anything, and 17 year olds are legal here.

[Therin]

Why?

It's still illegal to come into my home and take stuff, even if I leave the door wide open and I'm on vacation for two weeks with no dogs or alarms or texan neighbors watching out for me.

It's still illegal to pickpocket even if I have a loose $1000 bill hanging halfway out of my back pocket.

It's still illegal to fuck a 17-year-old even if she is completely sober, writhing on your bed naked, moaning for you to take her.

You have some descriptive analogies, I must admit.

And Shue - Holy shit, it's not that hard to understand. @_@

[phrost]

...It's still illegal to fuck a 17-year-old even if she is completely sober, writhing on your bed naked, moaning for you to take her.

Actually:

http://www.moraloutrage.net/staticpa...?page=Oklahoma

Sodomy seems to be a nono.

[Shuemue]

Therin, you really took that seriously?

Man, you need to lighten up.

Oh and phrost, changing the colour of your text doesn't make you interesting or unique, just an attentionwhore.

[phrost]

Pointing out the obvious, however, does make you a douche. High Five, Bro! If you're that insecure about it, add a little after-birth red to your posts.

[Shuemue]

Okay nub, let's make a bet.

My money says you don't make 250 posts in that colour.

[phrost]

That US$, BG£ or EU€. Look, neither your post count, nor your pretentious twat spelling of color impresses me. Direct your impotent Internet chest-thumping elsewhere, pal.


On-topic: While the precedent may have been set by the ruling, I doubt it will retroactively apply to SE's flagship product. Mass action against RMT companies is more likely. It will have definite impact on future iterations of SE on-line products and their respective TOS's.

[Shuemue]

Yes, that's right, an Englishman spelling English words correctly is pretentious.

Genius.

[Darus Grey]

Just for Follow-up but... here's the section pertaining to how blizzard's motion for Summary Judgement states how the application memory space's ownership is discerned:

"In order to avoid easy detection and blocking of Glider by Blizzard’s anti-cheat technology, Glider users rely on Glider’s “launch pad” to initiate the start up and loading of WoW into RAM. Clearly, Glider users’ loading of WoW into RAM creates a copy for purposes of the Copyright Act."

And here's some information about what glider does with the actual WoW application from the FAQ on glider's website:

"Q: Does Glider modify my game files?
A: Definitely not. Glider does not use a UI mod or make any changes to the game, either on disk or in memory."

So Glider pretty much just lauches the same WoW application unmodified. How would you launch an unmodified application and still be able to control it or prevent detection? DLL hook.

DLL hooking does not work exactly like that on a technical level, we're also mis-using the term. It's API hooking and DLL injection.

Also DLL altering is easily detectable.

The reason DLL injection is not illegal in the context of this case is because you are either replacing the original process, or adding a go-between, not copying or modifying the original client. The ruling of this case was a copyright violation, not an EULA violation.

In the case of glider it actually altered the client code, copying and running Warden in it's own separate universe so that it could control it's detection mechanisms.

[Khamsin]

Windower doesn't steal anything, and 17 year olds are legal here.

The type of crime is unimportant, the legality of something isn't dependant on the victim taking proper precautions.

Replace 17 with whatever the legal age is over there minus 1. Replace stealing with whatever crime you deem on a comparable level with this, and imagine the most inviting scenario for the criminal possible due to extreme negligence of the victim.

[Shuemue]

Khamsin, I refer you to my response to Therin.

[Khamsin]

Khamsin, I refer you to my response to Therin.

Don't make me do this.