Botters succesfully sued.

[Spekkio]

The really scary part of this is that it was won with Copyright law. That sets so many bad precidents, because it enforces licensing agreements in a way that they couldn't be enforced before.

"You agree to abide by the license agreement, or the copy of the game which you load into RAM in your computer is unauthorized and pirated, for which you could be sued under civil copyright laws."

If this doesn't get successfully appealed, it does open the door for pretty much any third party modification to any game to be slammed down under laws which weren't designed (but apparently successfully shoehorned into) to cover it.

This is a bad, very bad thing.

while imo, the tortuous interference portion is fantastic, (WoWGlider was causing damage to blizzard's game, reputation, etc. and should be viewed as aggressively as an attack on any other computer network) i agree with you that this is very dangerous. this means that merely opening an application and copying it to memory could be considered a violation of a copyright law. what will be next? if you load a non-microsoft application, microsoft could come knocking your door down for the duplication of the OS code into memory required to run it? laugh if you want, the suit above, if i read it right, tells me exactly that is possible now. i'm all for crushing the botters, but i'm fearful of if we've introduced a cane toad into the American legal system. that is to say a "fix" that's more dangerous than the problem.

[isladar]

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING

[Purrrfect]

Lol @ the butt hurt windower users if it goes. The game works just fine w/o it (yes I use it), and we even have a windowed mode now. If you don't like the game the way it is meant to be played when your 3rd party software is gone (not exclusively cheats/bots!), gtfo

[Vish]

SE can't sue the botters!! They can't even find them! So good for blizzard but I hope the next mmo I play will not be as bad!!

[Lexa]

Lol @ the butt hurt windower users if it goes. The game works just fine w/o it (yes I use it), and we even have a windowed mode now. If you don't like the game the way it is meant to be played when your 3rd party software is gone (not exclusively cheats/bots!), gtfo

'Cause it's not like anything else regarding FFXI is broken. Not like the Kings camps needs fixing, or AV is broken in any way, shape or form. SE's windowed mode is full of fail. Just because SE is too lazy to improve or fix something, doesn't mean we should just sit back and go "oh, well, then that's how it was meant to be done!"

[Attila]

Can fucking retard idiots like this not be allowed to post on BG? Go back to fucking alla with your "windower cheats".

I really don't think there's anything wrong with what he said, and I use Windower lol.

[Stiker]

If SE ever went through with it, and windower went kaput, I would weep for my investment and loss in the wonder that is my G15 keyboard, which SE doesn't support but gave away as prizes at a Fan Fest...

^This

Sure you can use the tools the G15 comes with and it can work, but dear God is horrid. Windower releasing that plugin was amazing.

Yeah the game works without Windower. Yeah, you can do the same things with macros with the new set/book system (with shit-ton lag...) as Windower. But why torture myself needlessly? With the that same logic, I would still being playing on my PS2 with subpar performance and shitty graphics because it "works the same" as the PC version.

[Fhqwghads]

Lol @ the butt hurt windower users if it goes. The game works just fine w/o it (yes I use it), and we even have a windowed mode now. If you don't like the game the way it is meant to be played when your 3rd party software is gone (not exclusively cheats/bots!), gtfo

How about you just shut the fuck up and deal with it. Windower adds functionality to an archaic GUI, and basically keeps this game from being flushed down the toilet. Instead of spewing your massively ignorant bullshit, why don't you just accept that Windower is allowing you to continue playing the game, whether you choose to use it or not. Without it, you might as well go play something else, because the number of people playing FFXI would drop like a stone. Also, SE's windowed mode is a fucking blast of fecal matter sprayed all over a wall. Doesn't even fucking work correctly.

Now that that's out of the way, the court's ruling is disturbing. The game is loaded into RAM regardless if you double-click the binary itself, or a 3rd party app starts it inside of its process. MAKES NO SENSE.

[Gunitsoldier]

How about you just shut the fuck up and deal with it. Windower adds functionality to an archaic GUI, and basically keeps this game from being flushed down the toilet. Instead of spewing your massively ignorant bullshit, why don't you just accept that Windower is allowing you to continue playing the game, whether you choose to use it or not. Without it, you might as well go play something else, because the number of people playing FFXI would drop like a stone. Also, SE's windowed mode is a fucking blast of fecal matter sprayed all over a wall. Doesn't even fucking work correctly.

Now that that's out of the way, the court's ruling is disturbing. The game is loaded into RAM regardless if you double-click the binary itself, or a 3rd party app starts it inside of its process. MAKES NO SENSE.

Your thoughts are the same as mine. <3

[Therin]

I really don't think there's anything wrong with what he said, and I use Windower lol.

Agreed. My windower is from 2004, I've never upgraded it. All it offers me is TParty and the ability to copy/paste text into the chatlog. There's not anything that I do that requires more than what normal macros give me anyway.

If they got rid of windower I'd be a little sad because I would be able to see mob percentages and whatnot anymore, but it's not that big of a deal. If I was really worried I'd just go back to 360 version anyway, it lags much less and feels ten times superior in the first place (at least as opposed to my PC).

Anyway, as others have said, they're not going to go after windower. You might still be able to get a court ruling on it, but it'd be a lot harder because windower is free. FFXIApp, on the other hand, would be a much better target, and would only getting rid of it would only make everyone happy.

[Skjie]

Except that Windower is free. And probably if anything creates business for SE.

Except that Windower still modifies POL in a way that is against the TOS. Sure, only half of the Blizzard suit is relevant, but that is pretty much enough.

And no, I don't use Windower, but I don't by any means have a "lolwindower is cheats!" mentality. I do completely understand that it is not an actual part of FFXI, and SE would be completely within it's rights to have the program shut down. I really think that a lot of people overestimate how much of an impact removing windower would be to the general play base. Most of you saying you would quit without windower are kidding yourselves, and the few that are serious will probably quit within a year anyway.

[Almalexia]

We coordinate Skillchains on Ventrilo

THIRD
PARTY
PROGRAMS

[Skjie]

Don't hook into the game. Same with Fraps. The decision is very narrow on what constitutes infringement.

[Purrrfect]

How about you just shut the fuck up and deal with it. Windower adds functionality to an archaic GUI, and basically keeps this game from being flushed down the toilet. Instead of spewing your massively ignorant bullshit, why don't you just accept that Windower is allowing you to continue playing the game, whether you choose to use it or not. Without it, you might as well go play something else, because the number of people playing FFXI would drop like a stone. Also, SE's windowed mode is a fucking blast of fecal matter sprayed all over a wall. Doesn't even fucking work correctly.

Now that that's out of the way, the court's ruling is disturbing. The game is loaded into RAM regardless if you double-click the binary itself, or a 3rd party app starts it inside of its process. MAKES NO SENSE.

I have no problem with windower, as I said. I do think it is a great tool. It is also not a requirement. If it were gone tomorrow and people like you stopped playing, we'd be just fine. Thanks for providing an example to my original post.^^

[AoshiZ]

Now that that's out of the way, the court's ruling is disturbing. The game is loaded into RAM regardless if you double-click the binary itself, or a 3rd party app starts it inside of its process. MAKES NO SENSE.

What they mean is loading the application into memory outside the scope of what it was intended for.

I think alot of people are missing the point. From a programmer's prospective, it is in our best interest to be able to keep our software working as intended. Being able to sue someone for hacking or making third party applications gives software developers the ability to protect their investment. Regardless of whether its harmful or beneficial, it should be the software company's right.

Square Enix should have the right to shutdown any third party software. But they also have the right to ignore beneficial third party software like Windower. Windower is pretty much safe in its current state so i don't think there is anything to worry about. If Windower took it to the next level (went to the dark side with automated farming, etc) and affected the economy, than i suspect SE would move towards shutting it down. If anything, the first target would be something like FFXIAP (maybe they've already been working on it).

[orson]

If you heard that from your friend, he's full of shit, glider is just a bot/scripting tool. The only thing people use it for pvp, is to essentially afk for a for small amount of points. For example, a script in which your character keeps queing for battlegrounds, than runs straight across the map towards the other faction getting killed, maybe autocasting certain abilities.

I've seen him solo 2 man Arena teams with a MS War and he easily out damaged my 2 friends that are very well geared Locks in battlegrounds again with a MS War, have you actually used Glider or are you just going by what you've read? This isn't some shit I just saw online playing with him I've seen the program running on his PC and how it works. Maybe it doesn't completely break the game but it can out maneuver any average player and it does abuse existing exploits in the game. If you use it during raids you can set it up so it has the optimum use of abilities for your highest DPS and such (funniest part about that is WoW has free plug-ins that basically automate that anyways.) It plays the game better then most PCs can. The main reason people don't use it often in PVP is because you'll end up like my friend getting your shit taken away or banned.

[megido]

Agreed. My windower is from 2004, I've never upgraded it. All it offers me is TParty and the ability to copy/paste text into the chatlog. There's not anything that I do that requires more than what normal macros give me anyway.

If they got rid of windower I'd be a little sad because I would be able to see mob percentages and whatnot anymore, but it's not that big of a deal. If I was really worried I'd just go back to 360 version anyway, it lags much less and feels ten times superior in the first place (at least as opposed to my PC).

Anyway, as others have said, they're not going to go after windower. You might still be able to get a court ruling on it, but it'd be a lot harder because windower is free. FFXIApp, on the other hand, would be a much better target, and would only getting rid of it would only make everyone happy.

that if a game is loaded into RAM, that can be considered an unauthorized copy of the game and as such a breach of copyright; second, that selling Glider was interfering with Blizzard's contractual relationship with its customers

FFXIAPP doesn't make a copy of the game data into RAM. If there is no copying, there is no breach of copyright.

The second arguement "that selling Glider was interfering with Blizzard's contractual relationship with its customers" may be more pertinent but that would be up to the courts to decide.

[Xno Kappa]

All these little gay anti-windower Amish FFXI playing retards need to shut the fuck up about it already.

[Day]

Whats wrong hiro can't play the game the way it was designed?

[Alistaire]

that if a game is loaded into RAM, that can be considered an unauthorized copy of the game and as such a breach of copyright; second, that selling Glider was interfering with Blizzard's contractual relationship with its customers

lol. Wouldn't this technically make running copyrighted games on a RAID 1 setup illegal too?