Botters succesfully sued.

[Xno Kappa]

Whats wrong hiro can't play the game the way it was designed?

Are you insinuating pressing macros takes skill?

[Day]

You're the one seems to be unable to play the game without cheating. I don't think it takes skill, but it must be too hard for you to handle.

[Xno Kappa]

Funny enough, I haven't used Windower in months because I've been too lazy to re-update it. Try again.

[Day]

Well why not? What are you some kind of little gay anti-windower Amish FFXI playing retard. Update your shit man.

[Ohaigaiz]

Well why not? What are you some kind of little gay anti-windower Amish FFXI playing retard. Update your shit man.

Contradicting yourself is cool.

[Fhqwghads]

I have no problem with windower, as I said. I do think it is a great tool. It is also not a requirement. If it were gone tomorrow and people like you stopped playing, we'd be just fine. Thanks for providing an example to my original post.^^

I think you're fooling yourself if you think you'd be just fine if Windower was gone. Well, I guess you'd be fine if you like doing nothing in an MMO because there aren't enough people around to do anything with. The list of people who would quit is miles long.

Playing other MMOs and enjoying up-to-date interfaces and then coming back to FFXI was akin to driving a brand-new Mercedes around for a while, and then having to go back to driving a 1980 Toyota pickup with manual transmission. Sure it's a nostalgic experience, but shifting those gears manually coupled with the lack of horsepower and spartan accessories is fun for only so long. Windower breathes refreshing new life into what many people view as a very, very stale game. Remove it, and you remove a not insignificant portion of the user-base. Convince yourself otherwise all you want.

[Xno Kappa]

Well why not? What are you some kind of little gay anti-windower Amish FFXI playing retard. Update your shit man.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60237
Seems to be an adequate place for the likes of you.

[Day]

Contradicting yourself is cool.

Consider me Miles Davis.

[Spekkio]

lol. Wouldn't this technically make running copyrighted games on a RAID 1 setup illegal too?

hell, technically by disk paging alone, you're making copies of it using third party software (Kernel memory manager). whenever you page it back into physical RAM, you're not plowing over the virtual memory on your HDD necessarily, so you may have 2 "live" copies existing at once too. and as a spin on what i mentioned before, could SE or Blizzard or whomever technically call windows itself a third party application and attack based on that? i mean the OS is loading the game into memory...

[Valisk]

I think you're fooling yourself if you think you'd be just fine if Windower was gone. Well, I guess you'd be fine if you like doing nothing in an MMO because there aren't enough people around to do anything with. The list of people who would quit is miles long.

Playing other MMOs and enjoying up-to-date interfaces and then coming back to FFXI was akin to driving a brand-new Mercedes around for a while, and then having to go back to driving a 1980 Toyota pickup with manual transmission. Sure it's a nostalgic experience, but shifting those gears manually coupled with the lack of horsepower and spartan accessories is fun for only so long. Windower breathes refreshing new life into what many people view as a very, very stale game. Remove it, and you remove a not insignificant portion of the user-base. Convince yourself otherwise all you want.

You know there are some people who don't use windower right? For you to say that people are fooling themselves if they think they'll be fine when it is gone is foolish in and of itself.

Like Bercus mentioned earlier, it seems like people are too dependant on windower and think the world would end if it was removed. It's a great tool, but by no means is it necessary to play this game.

I think people are getting ahead of themselves anyway. I dont think SE will attempt anything remotely close to this. It is SE afterall.

[fantasticdan]

I've seen him solo 2 man Arena teams with a MS War

What does that have to do with botting or glider?

and he easily out damaged my 2 friends that are very well geared Locks in battlegrounds again with a MS War

So? Warrior out scoring a similarly geared lock in a battleground isn't something out of the ordinary, I do it all the time.

have you actually used Glider or are you just going by what you've read?

I had a pirated glider I messed around with to skill up enchanting and fishing, thou I didn't really end up using it. Like I said it's just a botting tool that allows you to download scripts or write your own.

This isn't some shit I just saw online playing with him I've seen the program running on his PC and how it works. Maybe it doesn't completely break the game but it can out maneuver any average player and it does abuse existing exploits in the game.

In your last post you said glider could allow players to double cast abilities, reset recasts, and alter the positioning of aoe. This doesn't happen, at all. I've done plenty of pvp across three wow characters, and I've never seen anyone doing anything I would call hacking or any gameplay related exploit similar to those. I've never even heard of ANY wow player ever complaining about running into anything like that, there is just no precedent for it. The closest thing I can think of are old exploits related to geometry, like falling through a floor, or getting somewhere you aren't supposed to be.


As for glider bots outmaneuvering average players... no. They are fairly primitive, and essentially only serve the purpose of preventing you from getting kicked out of battlegrounds for afking. There is absolutely no precedent for people botting arena or anything like that thou. The closest thing is like multiboxing(multiple characters linked to the same input, so they all perform the same actions at the same time).

TL;DR: You're either an idiot, and your friend is playing on a private server, or you're a liar.

[XanthePandy]

I think I probably only use windower for the lag free macros and the ability to paste into chat. Everything else just confuses me to all end even though I'd love to have 6+ line amazing macros, I'm just not able to figure out how it works and deal with the little bugs that come with doing something wrong. I like the way SE's windower works, and if you keep it at 800 x 600 graphics are fine. But pfffft as if SE would do anything against Windower. If they did it would be hiring the team. If you can't beat them join them.

[Therin]

SE should just implement TParty, ability to see mob HP% and longer macros for PC users and then say something like, "Starting September 1st, 2008, all players found using Windower will be immediately banned."

And I mean down to a simple mention of Windower in-game being grounds for it. They can't search your computer but they sure as hell can search log files.

This would get rid of a lot of douchebags yet still keep the honest people around, plus no one could say SE fucked them in the ass because they had over a month to stop using the third party shit.

But alas, it will never happen.

[Fhqwghads]

You know there are some people who don't use windower right? For you to say that people are fooling themselves if they think they'll be fine when it is gone is foolish in and of itself.

Like Bercus mentioned earlier, it seems like people are too dependant on windower and think the world would end if it was removed. It's a great tool, but by no means is it necessary to play this game.

I think people are getting ahead of themselves anyway. I dont think SE will attempt anything remotely close to this. It is SE afterall.

Of course it's not necessary, and I suppose your first question was sarcasm, because honestly you'd have to be stupid to not realize some people don't use Windower. I was late on the Windower bandwagon, and played for years without it. As I mentioned, going to other MMOs and seeing what an interface should be, when I started playing FFXI again more frequently I picked up Windower. Now that I have experienced it, I would not play FFXI without it. I also think it's foolish to think that there wouldn't be a large number of people who stop playing if Windower became unavailable.

[Stiker]

SE should just implement TParty, ability to see mob HP% and longer macros for PC users and then say something like, "Starting September 1st, 2008, all players found using Windower will be immediately banned."

And I mean down to a simple mention of Windower in-game being grounds for it. They can't search your computer but they sure as hell can search log files.

This would get rid of a lot of douchebags yet still keep the honest people around, plus no one could say SE fucked them in the ass because they had over a month to stop using the third party shit.

But alas, it will never happen.

Exactly. Why bother when someone else has done it for you for free.

On another note though. LOL @ thinking this would magically stop Windower use if this did happen. Using things like FFXIapp and other bots are bannable offenses and uses of those tools have completely stopped right?

[Sonomaa]

anyone who calls using windower a cheat is fucking retarded.
considering its well known that SE windower is bugged as shit, good windower is the best alternative for those of us who spend money on our computers and want to actually USE them

[The Blackrose]

anyone who calls using windower a cheat is fucking retarded.
considering its well known that SE windower is bugged as shit, good windower is the best alternative for those of us who spend money on our computers and want to actually USE them

Of course, we'll never be able to use them to their full potential thanks to PS2 limitations. /rimshot

Back in the old days of MMOs, after x expansion the UI was usually reworked and had new features added in. FFXI is the only game I have played to have not changed its basic UI structure since going live (other than arguing minute differences such as the removal of the POL menu and the addition of the /shutdown command). Considering the power that other MMOs give you over the UI and the wealth of information at your fingertips, you switch to FFXI and you're locked in the same shit day in day out, completely in the dark.

But then we're getting into the same old rehashed arguments, such as "WTF 6 lines per macro?"

[Day]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60237
Seems to be an adequate place for the likes of you.

I'm not even sure what you meant by that, but I'm guessing at some point you'll realize I was agreeing with you from the start. Maybe not.

[Gustave]

No <3 for Distance plugin Therin? Even with the new bard /ja I depend on Distance alot.

[Almalexia]

Extended macros are the best thing about Windower aside from the windowing function. With so much situational shit to equip for maximum performance, it's a crime that SE limits us to 6 lines per macro. I don't see the problem with minimizing the number of keystrokes (read: macro hammeran gaems) just to perform something like Tachi:Gekko. The macro doesn't automatically swap to my WS gear every 100TP, nor does it perform Tachi:Gekko without my command every 100TP. I still have to push a macro to make the gear swap and WS but I don't have to go through the traditional tedium of pressing a lengthy sequence of macros in order to maximize my performance on every single task.

Some people attacking this function either aren't interested in utter perfection, which is fine, or they're striving for recognition as HARDCORE because they're proud of using a stricter system. Calling out Windower for innocuous features like extended macros, Blinkmenot, Distance, TParty and DrawDistance is silly. Choosing to punch several macros for one purpose, choosing to re-target a blinking tank, or choosing to not know the precise distance to stand from Cerberus doesn't make anyone a better person and using windower doesn't make anyone a better player. The modern conveniences of windower are just that: conveniences. You have FFXI Classic or you have The New FFXI, pick your flavor. The fomor is more rigorous, the latter more streamlined.

And before anyone seriously tries to argue SO THEN A FISHBOT STREAMLINES THE ACT OF FISHING, RIGHT? SO THEN A CLAIMBOT STREAMLINES THE ACT OF CLAIMING, RIGHT? I will say that there's no activity on the player's part to actually fish or claim in these cases, which constitutes advancement without participation, which is cheating. And, again, before someone seriously tries to argue WELL THEN A PERSON COULD JUST FISH MANUALLY ONCE OUT OF EVERY 100 CASTS AND THAT WOULD BE PLAYER ACTIVITY, RIGHT? WELL THEN A PERSON COULD JUST LOOK AT THE SCREEN WHILE THE CLAIMBOT IS RUNNING, RIGHT? Drawing, line, fallacy, etc.

Anyone against Windower on account of its breach of the ToS may continue to maintain their position. I shall advise the same people avoid unofficial windower users to avoid guilt by association, since indirectly albeit knowingly benefiting from THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS is almost as bad as using THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS yourself.

RIGHT?