One of the Best Political Rants I've Read in a Long Time

[Beckwin]

and when I shit all over barr/rand/paul etc, there's 2-3 "henchmen" that come into a topic all riled up and throwing a fit.

you're hopeless.

[pohibaba]

Perfer i make a comment about Babar? oh thats right your support for him only stems as far as these forums. Mccain '08 in November! Right Pohi?

3) I think that Obama would make a better President than John McCain.

You're a moron.

and when I shit all over barr/rand/paul etc, there's 2-3 "henchmen" that come into a topic all riled up and throwing a fit.

you're hopeless.

We honestly admit their faults, just look at any thread where they've came up. Obama on the other hand is perfect, but I guess he's your socialist prophet, right?

[Lavik]

oi!
countdown > fox news
fact

[pohibaba]

More entertaining? Yes.
Less biased? No.

And I suggest you look up the definition of "fact".

[Beckwin]

We honestly admit their faults, just look at any thread where they've came up. Obama on the other hand is perfect, but I guess he's your socialist prophet, right?

On top of that, I do have my criticisms of Obama (FISA vote, and he should be giving a stronger "fuck you" to people perpetuating lies about him and giving him heat over personal, non-political relations, I'd like to see single-pay universal health care, etc)

ur a moron

he's far, far from the kind of socialist/ism I'd like to see, but he's someone I genuinely think represents a step in the right direction in a way that isn't so radical that he can actually get elected and get things done.

[Beckwin]

oh and Olbermann gets some sryus props for actually bothering to cover legit McCain gaffes and embarrassments that have generally been getting the glossover in mainstream broadcast media.

[pohibaba]

The only reason that Olbermann covers McCain's gaffes is because he's a party hack doing what he's paid to do: get Obama elected President.

The only reason no one else covers McCain's gaffes is because they're all at Obama's event. You have to take the good (getting 2-3x the media coverage of McCain) with the bad (more coverage of possible gaffes).

[shihei]

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

An injured friend is the bitterest of foes.

Delay is preferable to error.

Determine never to be idle. No person will have occasion to complain of the want of time who never loses any. It is wonderful how much may be done if we are always doing.

Every generation needs a new revolution.

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.

Happiness is not being pained in body or troubled in mind.

He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.

I am mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, the sale of a book can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too.

I have no ambition to govern men; it is a painful and thankless office.

I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master.

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

Information is the currency of democracy.

It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong.

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today.

Never spend your money before you have earned it.

No man will ever carry out of the Presidency the reputation which carried him into it.

Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it.

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

Politics is such a torment that I advise everyone I love not to mix with it.

Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.

The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the tracts which favor that theory.

The most successful war seldom pays for its losses.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

The way to silence religious disputes is to take no notice of them.

There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country.

We never repent of having eaten too little.

Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.

When a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.

Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.

Wisdom I know is social. She seeks her fellows. But Beauty is jealous, and illy bears the presence of a rival.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

[shihei]

Jefferson 08

Can he get a raise3 first though?

[guartz]

I suppose I should make my presence here known, although nothing remotely interesting was said. I think I gotta spice up the board again, this is getting ridiculous.

[Beckwin]

you missed a hell of a spam thread.

[guartz]

I wouldn't say I 'missed' it.

[Bingbong]

Did it occur to you that some people want to get out of Iraq, want to pursue alt energy in lieu of getting the next oil fix, want healthcare, want the progressive taxes of the 90s back, want more opportunities to earn college money, etc? And that maybe some don't agree with "independents" like Barr or Nader? On top of that, I do have my criticisms of Obama (FISA vote, and he should be giving a stronger "fuck you" to people perpetuating lies about him and giving him heat over personal, non-political relations, I'd like to see single-pay universal health care, etc) but that doesn't change that of the two currently realistic options, he best represents my interests. Further, he has received more public confusion about who he is and what his policies are than any candidate I can think of- is he a secret muslim socialist no-policy pro-terrorist policy raising middle class taxes black power troop hating appeasing financial-aid receiving elitist fist jabber?

Ah, the voice of the people! First off... Iraq. We as civilians should not be given the access we are to the military and their operations. They will be done when they say they are, and that's that. Since when did armchair generals become the way to make poilcy? I'd rather have the guy in charge over there telling me when he thinks they've done their job and can come home versus the talking heads over here saying that troops should come home because we're mad!

Alternative energy, as is, the government gives grants and cuts breaks to energy companies for having an R&D and alternative energies departments. Really, it is not the government's job to find cheaper energy, never has been, they can encourage in the means they do, but the government straight out paying for research is not how money should be spent. Not to mention, if these alternative energies were actually able to be harnessed and used in a cheaper way than fossil fuels, then wouldn't the Capitalist system in place take care of that? In a system that thrives on spending the least amount for products and services, I have to believe that economical reasons, and not political reasons are what's keeping us on our "oil fix".

Health care, I fail to see where removing the economical checks and balances on this system are going to help it at all? Bureaucracy and government regulations do not make anything in this world more economical, easily available, or plain simple. Ever tried to get a marriage license? Hell, even that requires too many forms that it should take, and you want these folks in charge of the health care system? Also, what sort of checks will there be in place in a socialized health care system for when "price increases" arise? Which they will. Everyone's taxes go up 4% for increased health care costs, and all Americans can do -in a socialized system- is bend over and take it. Personally, I'm sure the yelling and screaming would be as loud then as it is now.

Ideologically, government is only supposed to be here to look out for the welfare of it's citizens, protect them from enemies foreign and domestic, make sure life as we know it continues in an orderly fashion (this is where roads, transportation, commercial regulations, etc etc etc. comes in). Anything more than that requires money out of my pocket, money I could put to better use for me and my family. From what I've heard about Obama, and to be honest, most of the government these days, is that bigger government is better, and until they control more of our everyday lives (AKA: money) things will get worse, and that scares the shit out of me.

[Beckwin]

That post sucked.

"Armchair generals"? Hello, there have been more than a couple books authored about how Bush fucking lied to the whole country to get us into Iraq, plenty of evidence of mismanagement and abuses while there, and on top of that the Iraqi people want us out. It's costing us billions every month and we've lost over 4000 American soldiers in an endeavor that has done nothing for our national security. An Armchair G.E.D. is competent enough to figure this one out.

Yeah, the economic reasons is that the oil business is still cushy and highly profitable. Oil has free-value associated with it because of the current necessity it plays in everyday life, exactly because there aren't feasible alternatives yet. Decades upon decades of mismanaged urban planning have resulting in cars being extremely necessary for most Americans, and on top of that, oil and the auto industries have not been making a whole lot of progress since the first oil crisis 30 years ago. The result is the consumer not being able to react as strongly as he should in the face of the recent exponential cost increase because of civic and economic infrastructure still locked in place. Bottom line: those industries suck and it's time to close off kickbacks and loopholes, and provide incentive to something more sustainable which benefits us environmentally and in terms of foreign trade/policy: we want to get away from being tied to the mideast's oil control and importing 60% of what we need every year.

Healthcare being less accessible and less efficient? lol. Countries with single-pay have higher public health/healthcare ratings than we do, and we somehow manage to spend more government money per capita than countries that pay for just about everything for everyone. I'd say that marks us as the inefficient ones, not the other way around. Obama's plan isn't a single-pay system, so don't get your panties in too much of a bunch.

Western first-world countries with higher tax rates have comparable freedoms and individuality in their everyday lives. Your slippery-slope-into-Stalinism view is naieve.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

What do you mean by higher public health/health care ratings?

And to be done with mid-east oil, why not drill for our own? I've read quite a few articles that say with ANWR, both coasts, and shale oil, we have more than the middle east combined. Why do we HAVE to have something new right this fucking instant when then internal combustion engine is still cheaper, and gas could be.

[Beckwin]

The mixed public-private health care system in the US is the most expensive in the world, with the US spending more on health care, both as a proportion of gross domestic product (GDP) and on a per capita basis, than any other nation.[1] Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of GDP.[2][3] In 2007, the U.S. spent a projected $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person.[4] Health care costs are rising faster than wages or inflation, and the health share of GDP is expected to continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[2]

--------

For example, U.S. ranks 22nd in infant mortality, between Taiwan and Croatia,[44] 46th in life expectancy, between Saint Helena and Cyprus,[45] and 37th in health system performance, between Costa Rica and Slovenia.[46]

The U.S. system is often compared with that of its northern neighbor, Canada (see Canadian and American health care systems compared). Canada's system is largely publicly funded. In 2005, Americans spent an estimated US$6,401 per capita on health care, while Canadians spent US$3,326.[47] This amounted to 15.3% of U.S GDP in that year, while Canada spent 9.8% of GDP on health care.

A 2007 review of all studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the U.S. found that "health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent."[48]

And the French and British healthcare quality beats out Canada.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I see, what's the source on that?

[Beckwin]

wiki

more importantly, where the hell is your more-oil-than-ME source? not to mention shale is only starting to become viable because of how expensive things have gotten; it's not really something that can be used to drive prices down.

[Kuya]

Don't expect to ever see prices go down to any substantial amount at this point.

[eunhye]

the way the world looks now, we'll extinct faster than the dinosaurs! politicians or not, there's someone to blame and that someone is God.